[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Open question for everyone in this thread
When do you feel it is “right” or “ok” for someone to start using? How do you judge this?[/quote]
Watch the Tate video and make a judgment based on his “playing your ace” analogy.[/quote]
Can that be applied to lifting though?[/quote]
Maybe if you’re lifting for competitive purposes. Otherwise so long as you understand what you’re doing, I don’t think it matters.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Open question for everyone in this thread
When do you feel it is “right” or “ok” for someone to start using? How do you judge this?[/quote]
Watch the Tate video and make a judgment based on his “playing your ace” analogy.[/quote]
Ace card argument is silly. Just as silly wether you plan on competing or not.
Following this approach one should start with good training shitty diet for as long as he can progress on that
Then add good diet as long as he can progress on that
Then add 1 supplement as long as he can progress on that
Then add another supplement as long as…
Then add peri workout protocol as long as…
Then use a better workout program as long as…
etc etc
Many pros or npc competitors started using “too early” based on what some of you believe, it seems
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Open question for everyone in this thread
When do you feel it is “right” or “ok” for someone to start using? How do you judge this?[/quote]
You should be able to gain ~20-30lbs of solid mass with diet and training naturally first. That wouldn’t be too difficult and would prove that you’re not a complete egit ;)[/quote]
So you need to prove to others that you deserve to use steroids in order to use them?
I watched the video and stopped at 2mins.
I have been in contact with a lot of football players that were by no mean tall or potentially growing tall (read 5’8, 5’9 estimated end height etc) but were very very good in high school and had potential. Do you know what the coaches of these guys encouraged these young athletes with a lot of potential but not perfect genetic for the sport encouraged them to do? Use hgh when the kids were 15-16yrs older. And sure enough some of these guys are now looking at playing in the CFL and stuff
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]ToTheTop_TTT wrote:
Yeah, what about Ronny being policeman throughout all of his bodybuilding career and never got busted?[/quote]
I’m kicking myself for not saying
inb4 people start saying Ronnie was a cop, they know some random person in Kentucky that used as a cop, my friend knows a friend that has a brother that used a a cop, blah blah blah
doesn’t mean shit[/quote]
Dear God dude, again, read the whole post before you start freaking out. I never said the guy I knew using. I told you what he was tested for as someone who went through the process. But of course you say “I know a guy” and flipped your shit without actually reading what was said.
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]ToTheTop_TTT wrote:
Yeah, what about Ronny being policeman throughout all of his bodybuilding career and never got busted?[/quote]
I’m kicking myself for not saying
inb4 people start saying Ronnie was a cop, they know some random person in Kentucky that used as a cop, my friend knows a friend that has a brother that used a a cop, blah blah blah
doesn’t mean shit[/quote]
Dear God dude, again, read the whole post before you start freaking out. I never said the guy I knew using. I told you what he was tested for as someone who went through the process. But of course you say “I know a guy” and flipped your shit without actually reading what was said.[/quote]
Its my understanding that you should and need to be “clean” when applying and looking at entering this job but once you’re in you are pretty much free to do whatever you want and no one cares wether you use or not as long as you do your job and its not affecting it. Hell I bet cops working with big ass bodybuilder steroid using cops actually feel a bit more safe when about to bust in some places when they have these guys by their side
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Open question for everyone in this thread
When do you feel it is “right” or “ok” for someone to start using? How do you judge this?[/quote]
You should be able to gain ~20-30lbs of solid mass with diet and training naturally first. That wouldn’t be too difficult and would prove that you’re not a complete egit ;)[/quote]
So you need to prove to others that you deserve to use steroids in order to use them?[/quote]
Nah it more-so just prevents you from sh*ting good money down the toilet because you never ate enough, or lifted half decently.
Most people don’t even class their first 2-3 years of lifting as “training” (more like just getting their feet on the ground, especially as a teenager when the lure of steroids is high)
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Open question for everyone in this thread
When do you feel it is “right” or “ok” for someone to start using? How do you judge this?[/quote]
You should be able to gain ~20-30lbs of solid mass with diet and training naturally first. That wouldn’t be too difficult and would prove that you’re not a complete egit ;)[/quote]
So you need to prove to others that you deserve to use steroids in order to use them?[/quote]
Nah it more-so just prevents you from sh*ting good money down the toilet because you never ate enough, or lifted half decently.
Most people don’t even class their first 2-3 years of lifting as “training” (more like just getting their feet on the ground, especially as a teenager when the lure of steroids is high) [/quote]
So when you have both your training and diet in check and know you can make good progress on it then?
Why wait to have reached maximum genetic potential (such a vague concept) then if you have this all figured after 2years of lifting and feel you know your body well enough?
If you want to do them do them, if you don’t don’t…I wouldn’t base my decisions on why someone else wants to use or doesn’t.
My suggestion would be; become as educated as possible on what you are doing. Learn the side effects and how to deal with them…Learn about proper dosing, how to administer the drugs, PCT. Make sure you are doing this for the right reasons…Learn about the emotional consequences of coming off and the possibility of being on for the rest of your life if you plan on blast/cruising. How important are kids to you, what kind of goals do you have, 10 pounds of muscle or 50. 8 week high dosed cycles or 12 week moderate cycles and why one may be better on long term health than the other…
Won’t go into much detail, but I was at a point where I was considering using and was prepared to, after a little mishap and a lot of questions as to where I want to go with my training I decided not to go through with the cycle.
Don’t be an idiot and jump into something you know anything about. Check out Bill Roberts website.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
If you want to do them do them, if you don’t don’t…I wouldn’t base my decisions on why someone else wants to use or doesn’t.
My suggestion would be; become as educated as possible on what you are doing. Learn the side effects and how to deal with them…Learn about proper dosing, how to administer the drugs, PCT. Make sure you are doing this for the right reasons…Learn about the emotional consequences of coming off and the possibility of being on for the rest of your life if you plan on blast/cruising. How important are kids to you, what kind of goals do you have, 10 pounds of muscle or 50. 8 week high dosed cycles or 12 week moderate cycles and why one may be better on long term health than the other…
Won’t go into much detail, but I was at a point where I was considering using and was prepared to, after a little mishap and a lot of questions as to where I want to go with my training I decided not to go through with the cycle.
Don’t be an idiot and jump into something you know anything about. Check out Bill Roberts website. [/quote]
Wise words.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Ace card argument is silly…
[/quote]
Then discard it and employ some other philosophy of your own choosing.
[/quote]
Well seeing as you seem to think its a good argument surely this means you think Lee Priest, Arnold, Lesukov, Vaillant, etc etc etc all blew their ace cards wayyyy too early and couldve been way better bodybuilders?
[quote]optheta wrote:
[quote]karite36 wrote:
I think of steroids the same way I think of a squat suit/bench shirt: Only when I have absolutely no further options to get bigger, stronger, and faster, will I resort to it. Also:
I still dont get it, I ask any member on this forum for advice because if I’m stuck getting stronger/bigger, everybody just says eat more/lift harder. So when exactly do you draw that line and know?
TBH it sounds like something people who don’t take steroids say to justify in not taking them.[/quote]
I’m scientific in my methods, so once I’ve tried every program, every diet, every combination, EVERYTHING, read every book etc, and still can’t make gains for a prolonged period, then I start my first cycle.
I also disagree with the “ace card” argument here. If your goal is to have a high caliber NPC or IFFB physique why wait once you have everything in order? IF your goal (notice I said if) is to have the physique of the caliber that I mentioned, waiting to “reach your potential” is just wasting time.
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Open question for everyone in this thread
When do you feel it is “right” or “ok” for someone to start using? How do you judge this?[/quote]
Watch the Tate video and make a judgment based on his “playing your ace” analogy.[/quote]
Ace card argument is silly. Just as silly wether you plan on competing or not.
Following this approach one should start with good training shitty diet for as long as he can progress on that
Then add good diet as long as he can progress on that
Then add 1 supplement as long as he can progress on that
Then add another supplement as long as…
Then add peri workout protocol as long as…
Then use a better workout program as long as…
etc etc
Many pros or npc competitors started using “too early” based on what some of you believe, it seems
[/quote]
This.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
If you want to do them do them, if you don’t don’t…I wouldn’t base my decisions on why someone else wants to use or doesn’t.
My suggestion would be; become as educated as possible on what you are doing. Learn the side effects and how to deal with them…Learn about proper dosing, how to administer the drugs, PCT. Make sure you are doing this for the right reasons…Learn about the emotional consequences of coming off and the possibility of being on for the rest of your life if you plan on blast/cruising. How important are kids to you, what kind of goals do you have, 10 pounds of muscle or 50. 8 week high dosed cycles or 12 week moderate cycles and why one may be better on long term health than the other…
Won’t go into much detail, but I was at a point where I was considering using and was prepared to, after a little mishap and a lot of questions as to where I want to go with my training I decided not to go through with the cycle.
Don’t be an idiot and jump into something you know anything about. Check out Bill Roberts website. [/quote]
This.
Along with at least some years of hard training and have a decent amount of knowlege about nutrition. The more, the better in both respects.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I also disagree with the “ace card” argument here. If your goal is to have a high caliber NPC or IFFB physique why wait once you have everything in order? IF your goal (notice I said if) is to have the physique of the caliber that I mentioned, waiting to “reach your potential” is just wasting time.[/quote]
Definitely agree with this…never understood the whole concept of the “ace card” when doing…well…when doing anything really…
But I have a very “Blast” mentality, as Tate would say. If I’m going to diet, I’m going to take fat burners, cut out all my carbs, eat clean, do cardio and annihalte the fat. If I am gaining, Im going to eat everything I can get my hands on. I’ve never understood the philosophy of “easing into it”, like saving cardio for when your fat loss slows down. By that point, you have just wasted all the time you could have been doing cardio in the first place and made more progress!
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
But I have a very “Blast” mentality, as Tate would say. If I’m going to diet, I’m going to take fat burners, cut out all my carbs, eat clean, do cardio and annihalte the fat. If I am gaining, Im going to eat everything I can get my hands on. I’ve never understood the philosophy of “easing into it”, like saving cardio for when your fat loss slows down. By that point, you have just wasted all the time you could have been doing cardio in the first place and made more progress![/quote]
Very much how i tackle things in every aspect of my life as well. Just how my psychology is. Is it the best way? Dunno but its the best way for me and my mentality
I like the idea of achieving something natty, at least for me personally, because in the hypothetical situation that I use gear, at least I know what sort of physique I can maintain if I come off. Keeps me a little more grounded and realistic, IMO.
Also, to those of you that ask about when to know if you need to just lift harder/eat more or add steroids… or you have questions about whether you should or shouldn’t… wait. You should know for sure when it’s time to take the plunge.
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Open question for everyone in this thread
When do you feel it is “right” or “ok” for someone to start using? How do you judge this?[/quote]
You should be able to gain ~20-30lbs of solid mass with diet and training naturally first. That wouldn’t be too difficult and would prove that you’re not a complete egit ;)[/quote]
So you need to prove to others that you deserve to use steroids in order to use them?[/quote]
Nah it more-so just prevents you from sh*ting good money down the toilet because you never ate enough, or lifted half decently.
Most people don’t even class their first 2-3 years of lifting as “training” (more like just getting their feet on the ground, especially as a teenager when the lure of steroids is high) [/quote]
So when you have both your training and diet in check and know you can make good progress on it then?
Why wait to have reached maximum genetic potential (such a vague concept) then if you have this all figured after 2years of lifting and feel you know your body well enough?
[/quote]
I don’t think waiting a couple of years is asking much, not for the large majority who may just screw it up rushing into it.
Guess I’m speaking from personal experience here since when I was just getting into lifting at 17 years old steroids really appealed to me (but it was more-so driven by a lack of knowledge and insecurity than anything else). The more I learned about training the more I realised they weren’t for me, and I’m glad I waited.
I don’t think that waiting till your genetic potential is reached is necessary (that takes years and years), but at least wait till you know more and have experienced some decent natural gains first. Maybe the exception is for some, but that’s the same with everyone that first starts lifting, some stay for good, others burn out or get bored (it would be silly for those people to have to deal with hormonal issues on top of quitting bodybuilding).