I don’t take them cause my wife would beat the crap out of me 
And what SkyNett said
There is ignorance on both sides, natty or not.
Got to say though, it’s really irritating to see people use because of impatience - those who seem to think they need them before getting the basics right first. You see this all the time; people who’ve only trained for 3 months suddenly feel they need extra “help”. So many ignorant people are flippant and associate steroids with muscle gains as if they’re just some protein powder. It seems there more like this than not, which is unfortunate for those who’ve put the time/research in.
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
There is ignorance on both sides, natty or not.
Got to say though, it’s really irritating to see people use because of impatience - those who seem to think they need them before getting the basics right first. You see this all the time; people who’ve only trained for 3 months suddenly feel they need extra “help”. So many ignorant people are flippant and associate steroids with muscle gains as if they’re just some protein powder. It seems there more like this than not, which is unfortunate for those who’ve put the time/research in.[/quote]
I fail to see how this is irritating to you? Maybe not smart on their part sure, but irritating to you? Cause they make faster progress than you? Plz explain this
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Alright, the both of you are on my shit list.
[/quote]
No worries
You have a short memory. We will be friends in a few minutes
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Alright, the both of you are on my shit list.
[/quote]
No worries
You have a short memory. We will be friends in a few minutes
[/quote]
LOL
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[/quote]
has to be photoshopped … has to …
I think of steroids the same way I think of a squat suit/bench shirt: Only when I have absolutely no further options to get bigger, stronger, and faster, will I resort to it. Also:
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Alright, the both of you are on my shit list.
[/quote]
No worries
You have a short memory. We will be friends in a few minutes
[/quote]
I love you, man.
Wait a minute… SHORT memory?
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Alright, the both of you are on my shit list.
[/quote]
No worries
You have a short memory. We will be friends in a few minutes
[/quote]
I love you, man.
Wait a minute… SHORT memory?
[/quote]
Hahahahahahaa
Getcha again
[quote]karite36 wrote:
I think of steroids the same way I think of a squat suit/bench shirt: Only when I have absolutely no further options to get bigger, stronger, and faster, will I resort to it. Also:
Tate Video…[/quote]
That was EXCELLENT!
[quote]karite36 wrote:
I think of steroids the same way I think of a squat suit/bench shirt: Only when I have absolutely no further options to get bigger, stronger, and faster, will I resort to it. Also:
I still dont get it, I ask any member on this forum for advice because if I’m stuck getting stronger/bigger, everybody just says eat more/lift harder. So when exactly do you draw that line and know?
TBH it sounds like something people who don’t take steroids say to justify in not taking them.
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
There is ignorance on both sides, natty or not.
Got to say though, it’s really irritating to see people use because of impatience - those who seem to think they need them before getting the basics right first. You see this all the time; people who’ve only trained for 3 months suddenly feel they need extra “help”. So many ignorant people are flippant and associate steroids with muscle gains as if they’re just some protein powder. It seems there more like this than not, which is unfortunate for those who’ve put the time/research in.[/quote]
I fail to see how this is irritating to you? Maybe not smart on their part sure, but irritating to you? Cause they make faster progress than you? Plz explain this[/quote]
Just because when they (the naive ones) speak to you, they talk as if they know what it’s like to reach a certain level naturally (something that took most up to 10 years or more to achieve). Although they don’t know it, it downplays your achievements based on something that came to them within literally 2-3 years. They downplay the role of the drugs.
^ I can understand getting defensive with steroids because there’s plenty natty’s who have the wrong end of the stick when they see a really well developed physique, but I’m talking about the “newbie” users who are pretty delusional.
That sounds bitter…it’s not. I also haven’t got a judgemental bone in my body, it’s just an observation.
[quote]optheta wrote:
[quote]karite36 wrote:
I think of steroids the same way I think of a squat suit/bench shirt: Only when I have absolutely no further options to get bigger, stronger, and faster, will I resort to it. Also:
I still dont get it, I ask any member on this forum for advice because if I’m stuck getting stronger/bigger, everybody just says eat more/lift harder. So when exactly do you draw that line and know?
TBH it sounds like something people who don’t take steroids say to justify in not taking them.[/quote]
I think the choice of taking steroids should be your own decision and not anybody’s else. If you dont plan on turning pro (or even if you do for that matter) there is no real need to wait as much as you can to use. The only reason I see for waiting a bit vs starting too early is really only just to be able to make the most out of your cycle(s) with training and nutrition in check
Open question for everyone in this thread
When do you feel it is “right” or “ok” for someone to start using? How do you judge this?
[quote]zraw wrote:
Open question for everyone in this thread
When do you feel it is “right” or “ok” for someone to start using? How do you judge this?[/quote]
You should be able to gain ~20-30lbs of solid mass with diet and training naturally first. That wouldn’t be too difficult and would prove that you’re not a complete egit 
[quote]optheta wrote:
[quote]karite36 wrote:
I think of steroids the same way I think of a squat suit/bench shirt: Only when I have absolutely no further options to get bigger, stronger, and faster, will I resort to it. Also:
Dave Tate on Human Potential - YouTube [/quote]
I still dont get it, I ask any member on this forum for advice because if I’m stuck getting stronger/bigger, everybody just says eat more/lift harder. So when exactly do you draw that line and know?
TBH it sounds like something people who don’t take steroids say to justify in not taking them.[/quote]
The “eat more/ lift harder” advice is given because they are the main reasons why people stall. If you can train 'til you feel sick, eat 'til you feel sick, and keep it at that level until you no longer feel sick, then start again, that’s what you’re aiming for. “Eat more/lift harder” is the shorter, more palatable version.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Open question for everyone in this thread
When do you feel it is “right” or “ok” for someone to start using? How do you judge this?[/quote]
Watch the Tate video and make a judgment based on his “playing your ace” analogy.[/quote]
Can that be applied to lifting though?