Steroids in Combat Sports?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
FightingIrish, you’ve always said that punching power can’t really be increased beyond improving technique and/or gaining weight. Assuming that a fighter stays in the same weight class and doesn’t improve his technique significantly, why would the use of PED’s make this fighter more dangerous?[/quote]

Well, if they’re used as a recovery tool, that fighter is going to be able train harder for a longer period of time, with a shorter recovery time.

To me, this means that you’ve got a cat who hits real hard, but normally isn’t going to last past seven rounds because he gases. If he’s on, however, is he going to be able to throw more punches at full strength, either because he doesn’t tire out or because his training camp went much better?

I’ve also heard, and I’m not sure about this, that steroids can make your hand eye coordination better- I remember this came up alot during the whole baseball thing. If it can, I don’t need to tell you how that helps a fighter. It could also affect handspeed as well.

And finally, and maybe most imporatantly, it’s going to give you a massive psychological edge over your opponent knowing that you’re on and he most likely isn’t. In fighting, your brain is everything, and going in thinking that you’ve stacked the deck, even if it’s unfairly, is a big thing.

22

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
FightingIrish, you’ve always said that punching power can’t really be increased beyond improving technique and/or gaining weight. Assuming that a fighter stays in the same weight class and doesn’t improve his technique significantly, why would the use of PED’s make this fighter more dangerous?[/quote]

the kind of athlete that does MMA or wrestling boxing etc isnt taking steroids to get stronger.
If you spent any kind of time thinking about people who play at a high level and use you would know its about recovery.
its about training harder recovering more and staying injury free or its about making weight

I know its a weightlifting site, but come on

not every sports goals revolve about being stronger.[/quote]

Right.

23

I have to say, I’d rather see them allow it. Not because I want to see two “supermen” go at it, but because so many guys already use. It’s fairly obvious that most high-level fighters are using steroids, so why pretend that a ban is doing any good in stopping them?

Look at just the ones they’ve caught: Sylvia, Sherk, Bonnar, Franca, Barnett. Hell, even Royce Gracie had a positive test, although he disputes it. I’d much rather it was out in the open, legal, and administered by a doctor as part of their training. Then the other guy has a chance to be on a level playing field without breaking the rules, and everyone taking steroids knows that a reputable company that has to stand behind their drugs is making their juice.

24

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
FightingIrish, you’ve always said that punching power can’t really be increased beyond improving technique and/or gaining weight. Assuming that a fighter stays in the same weight class and doesn’t improve his technique significantly, why would the use of PED’s make this fighter more dangerous?[/quote]

the kind of athlete that does MMA or wrestling boxing etc isnt taking steroids to get stronger.
If you spent any kind of time thinking about people who play at a high level and use you would know its about recovery.
its about training harder recovering more and staying injury free or its about making weight

I know its a weightlifting site, but come on

not every sports goals revolve about being stronger.[/quote]

Who’s talking about getting stronger?

I know its a weightlifting site, but come on

25

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I have to say, I’d rather see them allow it. Not because I want to see two “supermen” go at it, but because so many guys already use. It’s fairly obvious that most high-level fighters are using steroids, so why pretend that a ban is doing any good in stopping them?

Look at just the ones they’ve caught: Sylvia, Sherk, Bonnar, Franca, Barnett. Hell, even Royce Gracie had a positive test, although he disputes it. I’d much rather it was out in the open, legal, and administered by a doctor as part of their training. Then the other guy has a chance to be on a level playing field without breaking the rules, and everyone taking steroids knows that a reputable company that has to stand behind their drugs is making their juice.[/quote]

Yea, that’s super intelligent. So then when all these Tapout wearing 16 year olds are inundating the steroid forum with questions about what stack to use for MMA, I want you all to have massive amounts of patience, because you let this happen.

Again- steroids should be illegal in every pro sport, with harsh, harsh penalties for being found using.

26

I wonder if AAS can actually cause faster adaptions to new skills? It wouldn’t surprise me since technically when learning/mastering a new skill you’re laying down neural pathways the same way you are when you get stronger. I’m talking out of my arse here, perhaps someone with more knowledge should chime in.

27

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I have to say, I’d rather see them allow it. Not because I want to see two “supermen” go at it, but because so many guys already use. It’s fairly obvious that most high-level fighters are using steroids, so why pretend that a ban is doing any good in stopping them?

Look at just the ones they’ve caught: Sylvia, Sherk, Bonnar, Franca, Barnett. Hell, even Royce Gracie had a positive test, although he disputes it. I’d much rather it was out in the open, legal, and administered by a doctor as part of their training. Then the other guy has a chance to be on a level playing field without breaking the rules, and everyone taking steroids knows that a reputable company that has to stand behind their drugs is making their juice.[/quote]

Yea, that’s super intelligent. So then when all these Tapout wearing 16 year olds are inundating the steroid forum with questions about what stack to use for MMA, I want you all to have massive amounts of patience, because you let this happen.

Again- steroids should be illegal in every pro sport, with harsh, harsh penalties for being found using. [/quote]

Steroids are already on the federal schedule, and illegal to own. How much more illegal do you want them to be?

We already seem to be inundated by 16 year olds, I doubt legal steroids would make much of a difference. Hell, they might ignore steroids like they do nutrition if they were just another part of a balanced training program instead of a perceived magic bullet.

28

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Steroids are already on the federal schedule, and illegal to own. How much more illegal do you want them to be?
[/quote]

I’m not the one calling for them to be allowed. I’m responding to that comment.

hahahah. You may be onto something.

29

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
I wonder if AAS can actually cause faster adaptions to new skills? It wouldn’t surprise me since technically when learning/mastering a new skill you’re laying down neural pathways the same way you are when you get stronger. I’m talking out of my arse here, perhaps someone with more knowledge should chime in.[/quote]

actually, i believe this is true with certain steroids…i know dianabol has increased dopamine activity (either increased levels or more active levels in the brain).

regardless, the less tired you are, the easier it is to learn a skill…

hopefully BushidoBadBoy will pop up, as he was some crazy knowledge in this area…

30

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Hell, they might ignore steroids like they do nutrition if they were just another part of a balanced training program instead of a perceived magic bullet.
[/quote]

To be fair, steroids are a magic bullet, regardless of perception. Making the gains of a year of training in only 6-10 weeks? That sounds like a magic bullet to me.

31

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Hell, they might ignore steroids like they do nutrition if they were just another part of a balanced training program instead of a perceived magic bullet.
[/quote]

To be fair, steroids are a magic bullet, regardless of perception. Making the gains of a year of training in only 6-10 weeks? That sounds like a magic bullet to me.[/quote]

Go ahead.

Take a shit load of them, see if you “magically” become an MMA superstar.
Or a power lifting superstar, or anything for that matter.
Alot of guys take a fuck load of steroids and never make it past 190 pounds.

Hint if you haven’t already got it, steroids will not give it to you.

32

[quote]Westclock wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Hell, they might ignore steroids like they do nutrition if they were just another part of a balanced training program instead of a perceived magic bullet.
[/quote]

To be fair, steroids are a magic bullet, regardless of perception. Making the gains of a year of training in only 6-10 weeks? That sounds like a magic bullet to me.[/quote]

Go ahead.

Take a shit load of them, see if you “magically” become an MMA superstar.
Or a power lifting superstar, or anything for that matter.
Alot of guys take a fuck load of steroids and never make it past 190 pounds.

Hint if you haven’t already got it, steroids will not give it to you.[/quote]

The fuck are you talking about?

I’m talking about teens abusing steroids for muscular gains.

33

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
FightingIrish, you’ve always said that punching power can’t really be increased beyond improving technique and/or gaining weight. Assuming that a fighter stays in the same weight class and doesn’t improve his technique significantly, why would the use of PED’s make this fighter more dangerous?[/quote]

the kind of athlete that does MMA or wrestling boxing etc isnt taking steroids to get stronger.
If you spent any kind of time thinking about people who play at a high level and use you would know its about recovery.
its about training harder recovering more and staying injury free or its about making weight

I know its a weightlifting site, but come on

not every sports goals revolve about being stronger.[/quote]

Who’s talking about getting stronger?

I know its a weightlifting site, but come on
[/quote]

Who is talking without any training knowlege?
your asking what kind of advantage a fighter who uses, any kind of PED- wouldn’t be more dangerous?

how does being able to 'peak ’ in your training camp, stay injury free,
have tremendous recovery abilities,
how about staying alert, focused and getting quality recovery to bust ass harder
not make you more ‘dangerous’

maks me wonder how much time youve spent training for fighting.
go train 35 to 45 hours a week assisted and unassisted and see what gives you the better results

34

did that dude really choose “proud_virgin” for his handle? i know mine isnt outstanding, but cmon dude

35

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]Westclock wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Hell, they might ignore steroids like they do nutrition if they were just another part of a balanced training program instead of a perceived magic bullet.
[/quote]

To be fair, steroids are a magic bullet, regardless of perception. Making the gains of a year of training in only 6-10 weeks? That sounds like a magic bullet to me.[/quote]

Go ahead.

Take a shit load of them, see if you “magically” become an MMA superstar.
Or a power lifting superstar, or anything for that matter.
Alot of guys take a fuck load of steroids and never make it past 190 pounds.

Hint if you haven’t already got it, steroids will not give it to you.[/quote]

The fuck are you talking about?

I’m talking about teens abusing steroids for muscular gains.[/quote]

You talk like they are magic, try them first.

You have no actual knowledge or experience with steroids, aquire some first before passing judgment.

36

BEER FIGHT

37

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Hell, they might ignore steroids like they do nutrition if they were just another part of a balanced training program instead of a perceived magic bullet.
[/quote]

To be fair, steroids are a magic bullet, regardless of perception. Making the gains of a year of training in only 6-10 weeks? That sounds like a magic bullet to me.[/quote]

But they’re not. Steroids let you work longer and harder, but if you weren’t doing the work before, god knows you’re not going to do the extra work required to get the most out of steroids.

The kids taking them usually want a magic pill to make them badass. How many of these kids take a multivitamin, fish oil, eat right, or train regularly and with a plan? If steroids were just another item on that list, instead of “so good they’re illegal,” how many kids would still want them? I’ll bet that once they’re just another sup, some of the “magic” aura rubs off and we can get real information on the risks and benefits of using good drugs properly.

38

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Hell, they might ignore steroids like they do nutrition if they were just another part of a balanced training program instead of a perceived magic bullet.
[/quote]

To be fair, steroids are a magic bullet, regardless of perception. Making the gains of a year of training in only 6-10 weeks? That sounds like a magic bullet to me.[/quote]

But they’re not. Steroids let you work longer and harder, but if you weren’t doing the work before, god knows you’re not going to do the extra work required to get the most out of steroids.

The kids taking them usually want a magic pill to make them badass. How many of these kids take a multivitamin, fish oil, eat right, or train regularly and with a plan? If steroids were just another item on that list, instead of “so good they’re illegal,” how many kids would still want them? I’ll bet that once they’re just another sup, some of the “magic” aura rubs off and we can get real information on the risks and benefits of using good drugs properly.[/quote]

sorry brotha, gotta disagree with you here. even if steroids were legal, they would not be just another supplement. they would be THE supplement. i agree with your statements regarding what people should be doing before even considering steroid use, but, having used steroids, i can honestly say that nothing out there will give you the gains that steroids will.

obviously the potential (and sometimes unavoidable) side-effects should make people use them responsibly (good diet, training regime, blood-work/physician supervision, anti-e’s, etc) but even if they aren’t used properly, people will see great gains while using them. unfortunate that many who abuse them or utilize them improperly will only realize that they did so after the fact, when it is already too late.

39

in MMA, steroids can make or break some fighters…

the genetic freaks will be at the top of all sports, regardless of steroids. and guys like GSP that are freaks AND train incredibly hard/smart rule the top.

but in MMA, a fighter’s record doesn’t dictate his career…there are many fighters who make a good living, but are 50-50 fighters. so some of these mid-level guys will get a title shot, that an equally skilled boxer never would.

for these guys, steroids matter…if they have everything lined up with their training, cutting, mental prep and steroids, and the champ has a bad night, then they might take the title. i doubt they’ll hold it, but that could be a huge payday for them…

i used steroids a little when i was younger, and i was amazed at not only the strength gains, but the endurance gains and freak recovery. if i was a MMA fighter, i could expect to throw in an additional S&C session in every day on steroids that i know i would not be able to tolerate if i was clean.

steroids won’t change the top tier all that much, but i think it has a huge effect on the mid-level guys…

40

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
in MMA, steroids can make or break some fighters…

the genetic freaks will be at the top of all sports, regardless of steroids. and guys like GSP that are freaks AND train incredibly hard/smart rule the top.

but in MMA, a fighter’s record doesn’t dictate his career…there are many fighters who make a good living, but are 50-50 fighters. so some of these mid-level guys will get a title shot, that an equally skilled boxer never would.

for these guys, steroids matter…if they have everything lined up with their training, cutting, mental prep and steroids, and the champ has a bad night, then they might take the title. i doubt they’ll hold it, but that could be a huge payday for them…

i used steroids a little when i was younger, and i was amazed at not only the strength gains, but the endurance gains and freak recovery. if i was a MMA fighter, i could expect to throw in an additional S&C session in every day on steroids that i know i would not be able to tolerate if i was clean.

steroids won’t change the top tier all that much, but i think it has a huge effect on the mid-level guys…[/quote]

my opinion on using them as an athelete?

i wouldn’t…just because i wouldn’t feel as good about beating someone if i was “cheating”

i think if i ever get around to comepeting in MMA, i just need to be smart about scheduling my grappling, striking and conditioning sessions with my recovery.

as far as the strength from AAS…well, i’m usually the strongest person in my BJJ class, and although i can take everybody down pretty much any time, i almost always get subbed shortly thereafter. so i guess i’m proof that strength doesn’t cancel technique…