These first two paragraphs are going to be a mini introduction, so feel free to skip to the third one for the actual question. I’ve just recently (a month or so) started lifting, but have fallen deeply, deeply in love with it. I love the feeling of lifting heavy things, doing something I’ve never done before each work out, and just feeling mighty. I’ve lost weight from 216 (Mostly fat), to 189 (Not as much), but I still have a little way to go in terms of bodyfat. I also participate in boxing and grappling, which is also awesomeness. It pains me to hear other boxers say “lifting weights is bad for your boxing”, and this pain is only relieved by punching them in the face in the following sparring rounds. That, however, is a different discussion for a different day.
I’m primarily focusing on compound movements for a few reasons:
I have the equipment needed (Barbell, then some bad ass dumb bells that are like mini barbells, for 6 bucks).
I’m looking to burn the most calories per exercise workout, and it only makes sense to use lifts that exercise the most muscles. Also, just having more muscles = more calories burnt per day, so it’s a double whammy.
Overall strength and what not.
The conundrum is thus: I’ve read Rippetoe’s “Starting Strength”, in conjunction with a good chunk of information on this splendifferous site. So, my work outs are alternating between Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, and Squat, Overhead Press, Snatch. However, I can tell my snatch form is poor, and I have been trying to correct it. In the mean time, I was considering replacing the snatches with Bent Over rows. I’m still balancing the pushing v pulling with Overhead press and bent over rows. Essentially:
Is it adviseable to make this switch? Why do the snatch over the bent over row?
Seconded on the Powercleans (or hang cleans if you’re lazy like me). Snatch is a tough move to learn, especially without help. I know some coaches do advise bent rows, but I prefer the clean. It’s not as hard to learn on your own, but you’ll want to start off with low weight. I’ve only worked up to about 1/2 bodyweight so far…
I find snatches easier than cleans in terms of form… basically because of the catch. I’ve had no formal coaching on either and don’t do a ton of them, so YMMV.
I also prefer the DB snatch over the BB. There was an article (Dan John?) about the benefits of DB snatch outweighing the the possible “inconsistencies” in form for the non OLY lifter. I seem to remember that at least one expert that states that the DB snatch is pretty much useless…
[quote]eremesu wrote:
if this question does not get answered properly i am going to make my own thread about it[/quote]
Huh? Maybe I’m coming from a different perspective, but it really doesn’t seem like that big of a deal.
To the best of my knowledge, Starting Strength does not say to do snatches. That’s one caveat.
Snatches and rows emphasize different muscle groups. Snatch is more hip-trap focused with a higher level of technical proficiency required (even for power-snatches) and rows are predominantly mid-back/rhomboid emphasized allowing for greater load with lower technical proficiency required.
The gist of Starting Strength (IMO) is to
a) Squat daily (or, at least every workout)
b) have a horizontal push-pull (pendlay rows/bench press)
c) have a vertical push-pull (military presses/pullups)
d) have accessory work for the posterior chain (deadlifts on day 1, powercleans on day 2)
So long as those are done, the program is balanced, and provides a level of great results in terms of strength, speed, and mass.
SO…
as to whether or not to switch snatches for rows… go for it. You should probably have alredy done so (see caveat #1)
[quote]eremesu wrote:
i guess i will make my own thread [/quote]
If you mean why do the olympic lifts, the answer is that they are very explosive and aid in the development of strength by increasing your maximum power (strength x speed). Same reason that some people do ballistic lifts.
[quote]eremesu wrote:
so lifting a very heavy weight explosively is not as good as lifting a lighter weight explosivley for a longer distance?[/quote]
They are good for different things. Generally, the lighter weight will move more quickly, allowing more of a truly dynamic lift then the really heavy weight.
If you want to be a good O lifter, practice the O lifts. If you want to get stronger in general, O lifts will still help you. If your goal is to be a top level powerlifter, you’re probably better off doing speed versions of the big three.
BENT OVER ROWS HANDS DOWN!!!
I rly dont think anyone should be doing snatches…and IMO even cleans without a coach. Its a lot more technical then you think and without a certified coach you will most likely build bad habits and that can lead to injury.
So do rows, why do an exercise you know ur not doing well instead of one you can do well. I believe you said you aim for strength primarily, rows will def. help with that. Honestly, if ur snatch form isn’t down fully your just not gonna be able to use that much weight so ull in a sense be wasting ur time.
so…rows ftw!
I think the risk of hurting yourself doing oly stuff improperly outweighs the benefits greatly. Why risk having to take time off or worse get surgery and take even more time off? That being said I think it is truly worth it to get proper coaching on the oly lifts so that you can use them.
Not only are they incredibly fun, they build very strong, athletic physiques too.
I am going to read some articles on olympic lifts because i do believe it has some benefits even if i cant figure it out really. also i agree he really should get an expert to help his for with the snatch.
I saw it, it looks hard. youve got to do that overhead squat thing. i tried the snatch once, it really was not a snatch at all. so i do the clean and press and that is really not so hard. use your entire body to get heavy weight over your head