Hey all, this is my first post. I really enjoy the site and respect the knowledge being thrown around…mostly anyway
I’ve recently decided to really focus on BORs as I’ve never really put much into them, more of a pullup guy always.
Anyway, my strength in them is bad…at about a 30 degree, I rowed 135 for 8 reps and was pretty strict to not use any momentum. My bench in comparison is more like 225 for 8 to 10 reps. Is anyone elses bench/BOR that far apart from eachother or is that status quo?
You need to focus on working your back more, it’s a good thing you realized this on your own to some degree. Bent over row strength should be significantly higher than benching strength, so keep working at them, and there’s nothing wrong with some body english as long as you aren’t rounding your spine like a hunchback.
I also like to do underhand BORs on the smith machine, where I keep my hands close enough where my elbows nearly touch my sides on the concentric. I do these very controlled, and the regular BORs with the barbell I loosen up my form a little bit. I am also a “pullup guy” but i find that this combination is very effective.
Ya, H4M is right on. Your pulling strength should be significantly stronger than your pushing strength. As such, you should do a good deal more pulling than pushing and focus on that.
My BOR strength is shit and I know it. I’ve been working on it lately but I hurt my low back when I was in the military and haveavoided bent over rows since. I’ll do DB rows (Kroc Rows) with the 120’s all day long (as high as my gym goes) but as far as barbell rows I struggle with keeping my low back flat while rowing anything over 225… it hurts and it sucks.
Been deadlifting “heavy” recently and just haven’t been able to keep my upper back tight and it’s making me round everywhere…this looks like a good reason why.
Really appreciate the input guys, looks like I have to focus on rows for probably a good year or so since I’m lagging so badly.
FWIW, I have always enjoyed Bent rows and have close to a 1:1 strength ratio between that and my flat bench. Ive also never had any shoulder pain which i attribute to having good back strength.
[quote]fuseven wrote:
Been deadlifting “heavy” recently and just haven’t been able to keep my upper back tight and it’s making me round everywhere…this looks like a good reason why.
Really appreciate the input guys, looks like I have to focus on rows for probably a good year or so since I’m lagging so badly.[/quote]
Something i’ve found recently that will really help keep your upper back tight is to do this: start your BOR by standing all the way up. Then when you lower to get into position, go down super slow and over exaggerate the arch in your back, while sticking your butt out. It should look alot like an RDL. Once you get your torso close to parallel to the floor it should be much easier to stay tight. I do all mine super strict though and can still pull some decent weight this way.
It sounds too simple, but it made a huge difference in mine.
[quote]fuseven wrote:
Been deadlifting “heavy” recently and just haven’t been able to keep my upper back tight and it’s making me round everywhere…this looks like a good reason why.
Really appreciate the input guys, looks like I have to focus on rows for probably a good year or so since I’m lagging so badly.[/quote]
Something i’ve found recently that will really help keep your upper back tight is to do this: start your BOR by standing all the way up. Then when you lower to get into position, go down super slow and over exaggerate the arch in your back, while sticking your butt out. It should look alot like an RDL. Once you get your torso close to parallel to the floor it should be much easier to stay tight. I do all mine super strict though and can still pull some decent weight this way.
It sounds too simple, but it made a huge difference in mine.[/quote]
The whole stand up before you start rowing thing works well in “standard” BB Rows done with a stance basically like a conventional deadlift, doesn’t seem to work so well with a “semi-sumo” rowing stance, just something you should be aware of.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
You need to focus on working your back more, it’s a good thing you realized this on your own to some degree. Bent over row strength should be significantly higher than benching strength, so keep working at them, and there’s nothing wrong with some body english as long as you aren’t rounding your spine like a hunchback. [/quote]
I’m big fan of Pendlay Rows.
I read somewhere (stronglifts I suppose) that Ronnie Coleman can’t do more than 350 with strict form in them… that’s some shit compared to his bench press. So differences between classic BB rows and Pendlays are big, if in pendlays you simple can’t go with weight near your Bench Press (I suppose at ronnie example, and my own)
From other tread I know that you’re also doing pendlays, what’s your weight compared to bench press??? thnks for effort.
If I only bend over at a 45 degree angle and row into the hip, I can rep significantly more weight than I can bench press.
However, if I stand up on a box and bend over all the way (which I feel better stimulates my back) then I row (to my upper abs) significantly less than I bench.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
It depends on the way you do them in my opinion.
If I only bend over at a 45 degree angle and row into the hip, I can rep significantly more weight than I can bench press.
However, if I stand up on a box and bend over all the way (which I feel better stimulates my back) then I row (to my upper abs) significantly less than I bench.[/quote]
This is true but also everyone does them different. So its so hard to judge strength levels over the internet. I would say most people vary widely between your two examples. So its hard to ever compare two people without seeing them do the lift. Also, it is difficult to compare to the benchpress where you are lying stationary and therefor can not employ any body english etc.
i was just talking about this topic in another thread. It’s my opinion that one’s bent over reps strength should be pretty close to their bench rep strength. to be able to lower weight under complete control, pause at the chest and then press from a dead stop, one must have a very strong back.
i’ve found that the best exercise for this is the bent over row. below i have posted examples of my rep bent over row and rep bench press. i feel that having them very close in strength has allowed me to have complete control over my bench press through the entire ROM as well as during the pause.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
It depends on the way you do them in my opinion.
If I only bend over at a 45 degree angle and row into the hip, I can rep significantly more weight than I can bench press.
However, if I stand up on a box and bend over all the way (which I feel better stimulates my back) then I row (to my upper abs) significantly less than I bench.[/quote]
This is true but also everyone does them different. So its so hard to judge strength levels over the internet. I would say most people vary widely between your two examples. So its hard to ever compare two people without seeing them do the lift. Also, it is difficult to compare to the benchpress where you are lying stationary and therefor can not employ any body english etc.[/quote]
I agree with that, and beyond the differences between each individual’s bent row numbers, we also rarely know how a person is bench pressing unless they upload a video or something. So giving general guidelines on what your “ratio of strength” should be isn’t always reasonable.
There is going to be a discrepancy between people who are bouncing the bar off their ribcage and using a big arch/tucked elbows, versus someone strictly trying to build their pecs with a flat back and a pause/stretch at the bottom.
But in either case, I think for the individual there will be about the same amount of weight used per range of motion if your body is in balance. Take MM’s post above me for example, where both the bench press and bent row are done with body english and a limited range of motion (the bar probably moves about 8-10 inches during each lift), and the weight handled in the opposing muscle groups is the same.
So when you’re BORing 225 or something of that nature, are you squeezing the shoulder blades, or just getting the weight to your lower ribcage and going back down?
I’ve been doing them and really squeezing the blades at the top, got to be insanely tough really contracting with that weight yeah I realize getting stronger would help
