Good idea? Horrible idea?
I’m thinking as long as I monitor low back tightness and keep the body English to a minimum it should be okay.
Did the 6 by 6 today, back feels great.
Will be using 220 as a max and a incremental increase of 10lbs/week. Go here and throw those numbers in if you want to see my template. Smolov Jr. Calculator
Is there a particular reason you want to train a row like a competition lift? I always saw rows as assistance movements, where the weight moved wasn’t really significant.
Tried one time when I was bored of training. Didn’t particularly enjoy it. Got to the 10x3 on the second week and it just didn’t work.
I tried something similar years ago. My low back gave out before my back.
Might be worth trying with a “supported” row.
To answer above. My back was my weak point. I wanted to try something different for a month or two to “shock” my back. This was one of the tools I used (not smolov, something similar). I used a tool in my arsenal, if you will.
[quote]JFG wrote:
I tried something similar years ago. My low back gave out before my back.
Might be worth trying with a “supported” row.
To answer above. My back was my weak point. I wanted to try something different for a month or two to “shock” my back. This was one of the tools I used (not smolov, something similar). I used a tool in my arsenal, if you will.[/quote]
With smolov being a peaking program, I feel like it would be better to employ more volume, movements or frequency instead. I’ll regularly run through periods in my training where I just double my volume on rowing work (10 sets of 10 instead of 5 sets) for a few weeks.
I’m thinking I’ll give it a week and then see how it’s going and stop or continue
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Is there a particular reason you want to train a row like a competition lift? I always saw rows as assistance movements, where the weight moved wasn’t really significant.[/quote]
How much do you normally use for rows? You lift some monstrous weights on the main movements, so I wonder when you say you only use light weights on the assistance lifts, how light it is compared to your main lifts.
I trained HIT style for the first couple of years, so I was used to the mindset of always going heavier and heavier at any cost for every exercise. As you can probably imagine, it worked when I was an absolute beginner but quickly stumbled into a plateau. It’s only when I discovered 531 that I see the value of slow and steady progress and viewing assistance exercises as muscle builders / imbalance correcter, but that HIT mentality is still there. I’ve still got this irrational thinking that if I don’t go to failure and push PRs for every exercise that I’m wasting my time. I would really appreciate it if you can give us an overview of how you structure/treat your assistance exercises. Thanks in advance.
maybe someone already pointed this out but the 10x3 days are going to destroy you. unless you have some kind of way to maintain your trunk angle, like lying on an incline bench (i don’t know how you would do this with a barbell) your low back is going to struggle to stay straight as you approach your final sets, not to mention the fatigue your low back will accumulate throughout the week
[quote]nkklllll wrote:
Tried one time when I was bored of training. Didn’t particularly enjoy it. Got to the 10x3 on the second week and it just didn’t work.[/quote]
because strength gain isn’t linear
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
[quote]nkklllll wrote:
Tried one time when I was bored of training. Didn’t particularly enjoy it. Got to the 10x3 on the second week and it just didn’t work.[/quote]
because strength gain isn’t linear[/quote]
huh? What I meant by didn’t work was the 10x3 day was too taxing on my upper back. Even working with a 90% training max, I just spend too much energy trying to hold my back angle. Wasn’t worth it to me.
saying strength doesn’t increase predictably
[quote]Mizery wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Is there a particular reason you want to train a row like a competition lift? I always saw rows as assistance movements, where the weight moved wasn’t really significant.[/quote]
How much do you normally use for rows? You lift some monstrous weights on the main movements, so I wonder when you say you only use light weights on the assistance lifts, how light it is compared to your main lifts.
I trained HIT style for the first couple of years, so I was used to the mindset of always going heavier and heavier at any cost for every exercise. As you can probably imagine, it worked when I was an absolute beginner but quickly stumbled into a plateau. It’s only when I discovered 531 that I see the value of slow and steady progress and viewing assistance exercises as muscle builders / imbalance correcter, but that HIT mentality is still there. I’ve still got this irrational thinking that if I don’t go to failure and push PRs for every exercise that I’m wasting my time. I would really appreciate it if you can give us an overview of how you structure/treat your assistance exercises. Thanks in advance.[/quote]
I mostly use 5/3/1 for assistance work, either something like BBB or the mass gaining template or something similar. 5 sets of 10 on a big movement and then some smaller stuff.
The thing is, I don’t care how my assistance lifts are doing, as they are ASSISTANCE lifts. Their success is inconsequential to me, I am only concerned about my primary lift. If I have been losing strength on all of my assistance work and my primary lift keeps going up, I change nothing in my training. However, if my assistance lifts are at an all time high and everytime I step in the gym they go up, by my primary lift isn’t moving, I will scrap everything and use new movements. In fact, I’ve been cycling through the same assistance lifts for years now and using more or less the same weight for them, but my primary lifts keep increasing, so I know they are working.
I don’t really have a weight I normally use for rows, because I use all sorts of different types of rows in my training. I was recently doing log rows with the same weight I was log pressing, and worked up to 170lbs for 5x10 that way. I started doing meadows rows last week with 75lbs for 5x10, did Kroc Rows last night with 105lbs for 20 reps, and was doing rows with average and light bands recently for 5 sets of 12-20 reps.
I could definitely use more weight if my goal was simply to move more weight with the row, but my focus is on quality movement, feeling the squeeze and contraction. I’m not sure who said it first, but the motto of “train the front like a strength athlete, train the back like a bodybuilder” has been very valuable to me.
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
[quote]nkklllll wrote:
Tried one time when I was bored of training. Didn’t particularly enjoy it. Got to the 10x3 on the second week and it just didn’t work.[/quote]
because strength gain isn’t linear[/quote]
Why would it be less linear for rows than other compounds like bench pressing? Not quite seeing the reasoning here…
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
[quote]nkklllll wrote:
Tried one time when I was bored of training. Didn’t particularly enjoy it. Got to the 10x3 on the second week and it just didn’t work.[/quote]
because strength gain isn’t linear[/quote]
Why would it be less linear for rows than other compounds like bench pressing? Not quite seeing the reasoning here…[/quote]
I don’t think there is any reasoning here.
It’s not like Smolov or Smolov Jr are based on linear progress anyway. They’re pretty much based on daily undulating periodization, and I doubt he understands how they work (although I’m sure he’ll try to google that and prove me wrong).
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
[quote]nkklllll wrote:
Tried one time when I was bored of training. Didn’t particularly enjoy it. Got to the 10x3 on the second week and it just didn’t work.[/quote]
because strength gain isn’t linear[/quote]
Why would it be less linear for rows than other compounds like bench pressing? Not quite seeing the reasoning here…[/quote]
I don’t think there is any reasoning here.
It’s not like Smolov or Smolov Jr are based on linear progress anyway. They’re pretty much based on daily undulating periodization, and I doubt he understands how they work (although I’m sure he’ll try to google that and prove me wrong).[/quote]
I assumed he meant something more along the lines of “you can’t really predict what the strength gains in a given time period will be”. But I still can’t see why one would think there is something magical about movements like benching/squatting that coaches can write programs that are generally adequate when they make assumptions on how fast the trainee will progress, but do not apply to other compound movements.
Whether the program is ideally suited to other movements is a different story, and one others have addressed already.
For the OP:
I like training my back like a BBer, making use of higher reps and (usually) stricter form. Lats made great gains when I did a relatively low intensity style of training, but trained with moderately high volume and high frequency.
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
I like training my back like a BBer, making use of higher reps and (usually) stricter form. Lats made great gains when I did a relatively low intensity style of training, but trained with moderately high volume and high frequency.[/quote]
When you say “moderately high volume” and “high frequency”, what exactly do you mean?
Something like 5x10, 3x a week?
For the goals of lat size/training like a BBer. Well, lats and lower traps and, you know what I mean.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]Mizery wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Is there a particular reason you want to train a row like a competition lift? I always saw rows as assistance movements, where the weight moved wasn’t really significant.[/quote]
How much do you normally use for rows? You lift some monstrous weights on the main movements, so I wonder when you say you only use light weights on the assistance lifts, how light it is compared to your main lifts.
I trained HIT style for the first couple of years, so I was used to the mindset of always going heavier and heavier at any cost for every exercise. As you can probably imagine, it worked when I was an absolute beginner but quickly stumbled into a plateau. It’s only when I discovered 531 that I see the value of slow and steady progress and viewing assistance exercises as muscle builders / imbalance correcter, but that HIT mentality is still there. I’ve still got this irrational thinking that if I don’t go to failure and push PRs for every exercise that I’m wasting my time. I would really appreciate it if you can give us an overview of how you structure/treat your assistance exercises. Thanks in advance.[/quote]
I mostly use 5/3/1 for assistance work, either something like BBB or the mass gaining template or something similar. 5 sets of 10 on a big movement and then some smaller stuff.
The thing is, I don’t care how my assistance lifts are doing, as they are ASSISTANCE lifts. Their success is inconsequential to me, I am only concerned about my primary lift. If I have been losing strength on all of my assistance work and my primary lift keeps going up, I change nothing in my training. However, if my assistance lifts are at an all time high and everytime I step in the gym they go up, by my primary lift isn’t moving, I will scrap everything and use new movements. In fact, I’ve been cycling through the same assistance lifts for years now and using more or less the same weight for them, but my primary lifts keep increasing, so I know they are working.
I don’t really have a weight I normally use for rows, because I use all sorts of different types of rows in my training. I was recently doing log rows with the same weight I was log pressing, and worked up to 170lbs for 5x10 that way. I started doing meadows rows last week with 75lbs for 5x10, did Kroc Rows last night with 105lbs for 20 reps, and was doing rows with average and light bands recently for 5 sets of 12-20 reps.
I could definitely use more weight if my goal was simply to move more weight with the row, but my focus is on quality movement, feeling the squeeze and contraction. I’m not sure who said it first, but the motto of “train the front like a strength athlete, train the back like a bodybuilder” has been very valuable to me.
[/quote]
This is awesome advice, something that I really need to drill into my head. Make sure the main movements keep going up and the assistance movements do their job. I’ve never heard that last saying before, but that makes a lot of sense, will definitely keep it in mind. Thanks for all the advice you give here and on youtube, we appreciate it more than you think.
I like the idea of training back “like a BBer” when referring to something like total weekly volume, and that certainly works for me. But I also know that I still need to increase my strength with rows and other back exercises to support me holistically.
I have been doing too much pressing work lately and am noticing that what seems to limit my squat (to a degree) and deadlift (pretty heavily) is my lack of strength in my posterior chain and back in general.
I chose this because smolov jr seemed like a good way to increase my overall pulling volume throughout the week while focusing on strength in a functional, compound lift.
Like I said, if after a week things are getting shitty I’ll report back and either nix it, or rethink my periodization. My initial thought was just that 10lbs/week is roughly the progression I would use for my bench or front squat (exercises where my max is similar). I may drop it to 10/5, or go, or 5/5, or even 15/10. I’m just going to play it by ear and I’ll let you guys know what happens/ how it goes. My main goal is just to get stronger, so I can start flooding the PR thread here in the future. 
Thanks for the support/ critiques.
[quote]Andrewdwatters1 wrote:
I chose this because smolov jr seemed like a good way to increase my overall pulling volume throughout the week while focusing on strength in a functional, compound lift.
[/quote]
I wish you luck on your chosen endeavor. I will reiterate though that smolov is a peaking program. I wouldn’t think of it as building strength, but more like tapping into the strength you already have available. I am certain you will definitely be able to row more weight should you follow it.
[quote]Mizery wrote:
This is awesome advice, something that I really need to drill into my head. Make sure the main movements keep going up and the assistance movements do their job. I’ve never heard that last saying before, but that makes a lot of sense, will definitely keep it in mind. Thanks for all the advice you give here and on youtube, we appreciate it more than you think.[/quote]
I am glad you are able to benefit from it. I do my best to pass on what I have learned.