Little Backstory: Back in January (of '07) I was 6’1 and 210 pounds. I lost 40 pounds through diet/exercise and I’m now hovering around 170 pounds.
Problem: As you can see, I have a bad case of skinny-fatness. I have skinny arms, a thin frame, skinny legs, and a big gut.
Short Term Goal: Look good. I hate looking like this (obviously). I don’t at all feel comfortable with a shirt off (and I shouldn’t be). In fact, it’s even worse now than when I was a fatty. At least people knew I was fat. You can’t tell that I have any fat at all with a shirt on.
Long Term Goal: Gain muscle, have a lean-muscular build, increase strength.
Why I’m doing what I’m doing: On a V-Diet cycle because I’m looking to lose as much fat as possible before I try a bulk. Been told this a bad idea, looking for more opinions and advice on where to go from here.
I’m extremely conflicted on what to do at this point.
Congrats on the fat loss. Being a FFB (former fat boy) my self I would advice you to not “bulk up”. I made that mistake 2 times and while I did gain muscle and strength, I also packed a mountain of fat that was a pain to diet off again.
After you get the rest of the fat off start eating healthy whole foods and increase or decrease your calorie intake so that you still gain weight, but no more that a pound per week.
Chris Shugart has written a lot of good articles for FFB’s ie.
DO NOT try to “cut” as you do not have sufficient muscle mass on your frame to achieve the low body fat % you are after. You will end up looking like a refugee. Read up on the articles here (and do really READ them to make sure you fully absorb what they are saying).
The best thing for you to do right now is stick to making proper food choices (and not yo-yo diet, stick to around maintenance levels), follow one of the programs listed here and most of all be consistent.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it might as well be said. It is going to take some long time (think years instead of months) to get to where you want to be. Get some guidance from here, get dedicated, and you will be well on your way.
So my best bet right now is to eat around maintenance and lift/run? Should I simply drop the V-Diet and go straight into a transition phase so I can get back to where I started? I’m trying to decide what path would make for optimal (as possible) results.
Eat above maintenance, train heavy, pack on muscle. Don’t worry about the little bit of fat you have now. What you need is mucle. With a lot of muscle you can probably carry that fat and still look great. If you decide later on that you want to be leaner you can deal with it then. Just put on muscle and forget about that fat.
I’m genuinely curious as to why though I’d be better off to bulk up first then cut down later. Is it only because the fat would come off easily if my frame has some muscle?
Also, if I were to go on a slight bulk (as in 200-300 calories above maintenance) would it be at all possible to lower my bodyfat while gaining muscle with the proper supplements (such at HOT-ROX)? I know this is simply wishful thinking and technically impossible, though in rare cases it can happen. I’m just wondering if my case would be at all possible to achieve that, at least minimally.
You don’t neccisarily need to gain loads of muscle to lose the fat but you have to be gaining muscle no matter what you do since right now it doesn’t matter if you have 4% bodyfat you will look and feel terrible. I know this from experience.
What you mentioned is a good idea it does work it is not nearly as hard as it sounds since you are a beginner once you are able to see some abs is when it really gets hard to lose fat without being on below maitinence calories. Also I don't see a reason to take the HOT-ROX. The most important thing to do to be able to do this is have a clean diet and work hard with weights.
don’t do the V-diet.
40 pounds is a lot of weight, good job on losing that. However, looking at your pictures, I think losing more will not necessarily help your looks because you don’t have muscle underneath the fat. I can tell you from experience that losing fat without muscle doesn’t feel good.
What do now? Start concentrating lifting and eating right. Read the stickies in the beginner’s forum if you haven’t already. Search for “Starting strength” for a nice and easy (and useful) beginner program.
I know you probably will be, but please don’t be scared to put on weight (not 5 pounds a week of course) if you’re lifting and eating right. If you do things correctly, you might be plus 10 pounds and looking a lot better in 3 months or so.
[quote]BeetleBlue wrote:
I’m genuinely curious as to why though I’d be better off to bulk up first then cut down later. Is it only because the fat would come off easily if my frame has some muscle?
Also, if I were to go on a slight bulk (as in 200-300 calories above maintenance) would it be at all possible to lower my bodyfat while gaining muscle with the proper supplements (such at HOT-ROX)? I know this is simply wishful thinking and technically impossible, though in rare cases it can happen. I’m just wondering if my case would be at all possible to achieve that, at least minimally. [/quote]
Sure, you could do the V-diet and all kinds of HIIT work, intervals, etc and shrink down until you look like a fucking toothpick. Not to say you need to go on a super bulk and get fat either.
Eating a couple hundred calories above maintenance is a fine idea and make sure you’re training hard. I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you’re probably not very strong. Make sure your training matches the way you want to look. Throw in the HOT-ROX if you want to and don’t sweat the lose fat/build muscle issue, it’s not “technically impossible”.
I had a similar body type. In early 2007, I was lean all around except for around the mid-section with 12.7% body fat. I started working with a personal trainer at that point, and he had me cut my cardio, which I was doing 3x a week for three months. I was just to do weights. In 10 weeks, I dropped from 12.7% BF to 10% BF while gaining 7 lbs of weight and dropping a couple inches off my waist with no cardio involved at all, just weights.
I also would take a look at the quality of your nutrition, quality of sleep, and how well you are handling stress. Something you are doing, or not doing, besides your time in the gym, may be one of the key contributers to your problem.
Fuck the V-diet. Its a ‘quick fix’ people are using when they aren’t in the shape to be doing it to begin with.
Focus on long term goals. You are skinny fat, which means you have fat and no muscle. Way different from having fat, but muscle to go with it. You need to add muscle, which will in turn make you leaner (assuming you know how to eat clean).
Add muscle now, if you lean out while doing so, congrats. After adding a SUBSTANTIAL amount of muscle, you might consider dieting to lose some fat. If you find that you are gaining too much fat along with the muscle, clean up your diet.
Do you have experience in weights? I’d try doing “Starting Strength” and cardio on off days.
I would eat at maintenance (maybe a 33/33/33 macro) and measure myself. Evaluate every 4wks and make necessary adjustments.
I just wouldn’t go crazy on a diet, or an all out bulk.
I’m a skinny-fat guy too and I’m focusing my attention on weightlifting. I only do cardio once a week and it’s more for health reasons than for fat loss.
I understand your dilemma…I had the same issue too, but I think weightlifting is the way to go.
[quote]drmbldr wrote:
I had a similar body type. In early 2007, I was lean all around except for around the mid-section with 12.7% body fat. I started working with a personal trainer at that point, and he had me cut my cardio, which I was doing 3x a week for three months. I was just to do weights. In 10 weeks, I dropped from 12.7% BF to 10% BF while gaining 7 lbs of weight and dropping a couple inches off my waist with no cardio involved at all, just weights.
I also would take a look at the quality of your nutrition, quality of sleep, and how well you are handling stress. Something you are doing, or not doing, besides your time in the gym, may be one of the key contributers to your problem.[/quote]
Fuck the V-Diet. Its a ‘quick fix’ people are using when they aren’t in the shape to be doing it to begin with.
Focus on long term goals. You are skinny fat, which means you have fat and no muscle. Way different from having fat, but muscle to go with it. You need to add muscle, which will in turn make you leaner (assuming you know how to eat clean).
Add muscle now, if you lean out while doing so, congrats. After adding a SUBSTANTIAL amount of muscle, you might consider dieting to lose some fat. If you find that you are gaining too much fat along with the muscle, clean up your diet.
Do you have experience in weights? I’d try doing “Starting Strength” and cardio on off days.
I would eat at maintenance (maybe a 33/33/33 macro) and measure myself. Evaluate every 4wks and make necessary adjustments.
I just wouldn’t go crazy on a diet, or an all out bulk.[/quote]
This is exactly the right approach. Eat healthy, eat enough to build muscle but no more. Take fish oil. Lift heavy and have patience.
As time goes on the fat will melt away and you won’t even notice it going. Focus on building strength. The muscle will follow. Be content on improving from year to year. Do this for the rest of your life.
[quote]Digity wrote:
What’s your diet and workouts like?[/quote]
In those first three months, my diet was drinking lots of water and eating six times a day with three solid portioned healthy meals alternated with three protein shakes. Supplementation was multi-vitamins, concentrated fruits & vegetables, and omega-3s. Post-workout recovery shake was protein, arginine, glutamine. Workout was standard textbook hypertrophy on a four day a week split based off Poliquin’s weight training principles. Pretty
simple, eh? I believe the difference maker was the consistent application of the expert advice I received.
To add to what gabex had so colorfully posted, what I do today is different than when I started. About every three months we needed to change my workouts and make tweaks to my diet as we found out what works or did not work as we expected.
It’s not impossible to put on muscle and loose body fat. I know this because it happened to me over the course of the last 3 weeks.
I gained 4lbs of muscle and lost 3lbs of fat. My weight is almost exactly the same, but my body fat decreased by around 3%.
What is the secret?
I worked out hard 5 times a week.
I wake up every day at 5:10am to do my cardio (health reasons, not weight loss).
I have 6 meals a day.
I count my calories, 2300 a day.
I take ZMA, Tribulus.
I eat good foods.
I stopped eating ANYTHING that is fried.
I take fish oil with all my 6 meals.
I do a SHITLOAD of NEPAs, around 1000-1500 stair steps daily, plus a lot of brisk walking.
I don’t have cheat meals, except when I don’t have the option.
I follow my exercise routine religiously. I am next week changing the routine (I’m following Chad Waterbury’s fat loss program on the Muscle Revolution), and I will probably have even more gains than I did this month, since from what I read this routine is great.
You see? It took a lot of tiny little steps, but all of them combined made me progress a hell of a lot in almost a month.
Don’t expect to do any less. Just do your best, and the results will come.
It’s a fact.