[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
I didn’t bring up steroids as the one and only reason he’s able to DL 600. I brought it up because my point of view is from a natural lifter who used to be in the same situation as the OP, where his view is from a geared lifter. I specifically stated that there’s nothing wrong with that, but comparing that to the OP’s situation is ludicrous.
I’m not so sure about the “unhealthy level of body fat” being unneccessary. 20% really isn’t that bad. I know there’s the whole “get hyooge without ever getting even a little bit fat” movement happening right now, but I’m pretty sure that’s going to peter out pretty quick. I got up to 235 on purpose, following advice of several very large and knowledgeable men, to achieve a particular effect. And it worked.
The advice was to take your goal weight, add 15%, and do whatever it takes to get there. Hold that exaggerated weight for a few months, and then back it down to your goal weight. The concept is to change your body weight set point, and it absolutely worked.
So yes, I got fat. On purpose. And it worked exactly the way I wanted it to. I spent almost three years out of the gym, and my weight stayed pretty close to that new set point without losing much strength at all. Maybe it could be seen as extreme, but it works. Maybe it could be seen as “bullshit bro science”, but it works. [/quote]
However you want to phrase your argument, you used the fact that Reed used steroids as a reason he is at the level he’s at now, and that because he uses steroids now, his advice is not appropriate. What you seem to be missing is the fact that every steroid user on the planet has both a natural and a geared perspective, because we were all natural, most of us for a long time. I’ve spent less than a year unnatural, and a decade natural. So most of my opinions were derived from my natural training/dieting.
As for your own bodyfat, I guess I’ve simply assumed that you’re pretty far off on your 20% estimation, given the fact that you did not get all that strong, and you weighed so much. (again all this is relative…) I had surpassed all your lifts naturally, at a bodyweight in the 180s, at 10-12% bodyfat. If you doubled my bodyfat, you wouldn’t be anywhere close to your bodyweight. This makes me assume you were carrying much more fat than you think you were. I realize this is just an opinion, you’re free to disagree. This isn’t my main contention.
It’s fine that you met your goals, and that you made ‘get fat’ a goal. But for most of us (and I’m assuming the OP is in this camp based on everything he’s said), this is not a goal. If you’re going to justify getting fat to get strong by saying ‘hey it works’, then you’re opening the door for ME to say ‘never ever get above 12% bodyfat, because that also works, and I’m stronger than you so it actually works better’. I don’t think that’s really where you want to go with this.
Staying lean while gaining muscle is not a fad. I don’t know why you would think that. It’s addressing training and diet intelligently and efficiently. It’s an advancement. I’ve got a six pack and quite a bit of vascularity, and I seen no reason to change that. The best powerlifters in the world, aside from the SHW’s, are staying lean year round. Hell, even Lilliebridge is pretty damn lean at 300 lbs.[/quote]
great post, and yeah, you are awesome, Flip
