Silver and Steel

[TrainForPain]

The first one looks very similar to something I’d do. I like the look of the second, as well. I’ve started just playing with BFR stuff, but it’s fun.

I don’t think the Mountain Dog stuff is too difficult once you get used to it.

Let’s start with a range of 9-16 sets each for bis and tris. I prefer to do those on their own day (as he did, as well).

1. Your first exercise for triceps is contraction-focused and meant to be easy on the elbows. Some kind of pressdown for higher reps is almost always his go-to here.

Your first biceps exercise is brachialis-focused, and definitely no big stretch component. I like hammer curls, but reverse curls are fine too.

2. Next for both is your “heavy” exercise. For triceps, I think machine dips are a great choice here. You could also use close-grip bench, floor press, etc.

For biceps this is just whatever your favorite heavy curl is (BB, EZ, etc).

3. Finally, we do our stretch exercise. This is where you can do skullcrushers for triceps, because your elbows should be warmed up. Mine always still hurt, so I often do a machine extension.

Biceps will see you doing preacher curls, incline DB curls, etc.

• The drop sets, etc. I don’t find extraordinarily useful one way or the other. I think you just sprinkle them in when you feel like it.
• I don’t want to think about load on arms at all - it’s definitely pure bodybuilding mind-muscle stuff.
• For progression (if you must!), I’d do a volume-based.

So you’d start with 3 sets per exercise, then the next week add one to the second exercise, the week after add a set to the first exercise, the week after add that set to the third exercise. Now you’re at 12 sets and you repeat, so you get 8 weeks out of that.

If you want to be really meticulous, you could extend that progression by alternating adding an intensity technique. So add a set, next week add 5 partials, following week add a set, etc. that would drive me nuts but some people like it.

@FlatsFarmer the real story is much less exciting than it could have been! I closed the window, she opened it and muttered she wanted to look out, I watched tv on my phone and fell asleep.

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

In trying to combine pretty much everything from BFR training alongside Mountain Dog training, I got this…

Triceps (all except No. 2 with reps of 30/15/15/15)

1. 90* Cable Pressdowns
2. Dips/Close Grip Bench (heavy, Rest-Pause)
3. Skull Crushers

Biceps (all with reps of 30/15/15/15)

1. Cross-Body Hammer Curls
2. EZ Preacher/Machine/Incline Curls
3. EZ Curls (close grip)

[TrainForPain]

My personal preference would be to swap 2 and 3 on your biceps (my elbows get pretty cranky), but it looks awesome

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

I forgot to mention, how frequently would this be implemented in training? I’ll probably follow this alongside something similar to a push/pull routine - not sure if I should neglect direct arm training during the standard days and just run this as a ‘gap workout’, or just reduce arm-training volume during non-gap workouts.

[TrainForPain]

If it’s all BFR, my hunch is you could pick an exercise and do 3-6 normal sets on your regular days and just keep what you have on your gap day. I’ve never done it, so that’s just a guess.

If it’s straight sets, I’ve not done well if I go over about 16 a weeks even splitting frequency.

[rugby_lifting]

@Andrewgen_Receptors @TrainForPain

Following on from the big bench question on the other ‘surge’ thread, what do you co aider a big bench and what is your bench Mr pain?

@Andrewgen_Receptors hit 285lbs /130kg for 6

I’m going to do the whole year on 531 and see where my bench ends up but I’d like 225lbs for an easyish set of 10 and a clean rep of 140kg/ 315lbs. I think that’s a big bench compared to 90% of the people in the gym but it’s not big overall.

I’m talking BB benching not a power lifter though.

[TrainForPain]

That’s a really good question. I think, like everything in the gym, it’s like driving on the highway: everyone going faster than me is flying, and everyone else is crawling.

I could maybe get 2 with 285, so 285 x 6 is enormous. I don’t have any further detailed standards!

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

Not to be picky, but that was 285x7 lol.

Weighted dips are probably the number one helper for bemch IMO. I also trained incline bench only for like 2 years or something so my incline is pretty similar to my flat bench… when i swapped back over to flat bench - my numbers only shot upwards like when Goku finally took the training weights off mid-fight scene lol.

@rugby_lifting

I’m talking BB benching not a power lifter though.

If you really want to lift more weight on specific lifts, you would probably do well to not divorce these two training methods. There are better lifts for hypertrophy than flat bench, so make no mistake that by pushing for a big bench - you are powerlifting, just without the exorcist arch.

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You can’t get a bigger bench without training bench, so most of your efforts should still be focused on benching. Past there, weighted dips, then maybe close grip bench.

@TrainForPain

everyone going faster than me is flying, and everyone else is crawling

This is also very true.

FWIW, i still think my bench is shit lol.

[TrainForPain]

@Andrewgen_Receptors

I also trained incline bench only for like 2 years or something so my incline is pretty similar to my flat bench

This is absolutely me

[rugby_lifting]

The incline at my current gym is only a slight angle less then up right and I feel so weak on it but it’s basically a BB shoulder press. The angle also feels terrible for my shoulders so I tend to stay away from it at this gym.

I personally think that because I haven’t focussed on improving my bench up to some reasonable figures I’ve left some development on the table so to speak. After 6 months on my current programme (my 531 BB style) I might be wrong but I think I’m looking the best I have in years at the moment.

I’ve never focussed too much on dips as they hurt my right wrist for some reason so weighted dips irritate it (although my elbows usually feel fine on them). Maybe I’ll try adding dips as my accsesssory chest lift when I change it next.

[cdep89]

@Andrewgen_Receptors

If you really want to lift more weight on specific lifts, you would probably do well to not divorce these two training methods. There are better lifts for hypertrophy than flat bench, so make no mistake that by pushing for a big bench - you are powerlifting, just without the exorcist arch.

---

You can’t get a bigger bench without training bench, so most of your efforts should still be focused on benching. Past there, weighted dips, then maybe close grip bench.

I’m dealing with this kind of stuff right now. I used to care so much about my bench, but I wanted full range of motion, I was doing it twice a week, it was bigger than my squat and going up all the time. I had a realization that all the guys benching more than me were either much bigger (and fatter) than me, had an arch way bigger than mine, or cared about it way more than any other lift. It was nice being able to bench more than what people expected of me but outside of those 10-30mins inside the gym, I had not a lot to show for it and neither did any of the other benchers in my “bracket”. I know there’s a massive novelty factor but my chest has grown more in 3months of dropping a BB Bench day for DB Press and more recently, a slight incline DB Press than it did in all my previous time of training. I am genuinely considering dropping it completely, maybe for close-grip bench so I’m still doing some form of barbell pressing in case I ever decide I want to work on it again. If close-grip gets slow to progress, I’ll switch to incline BB press for a cycle. Maybe even close-grip incline press which I’m sure is epic for the triceps.

To go with your statement, I was marrying two concepts and it was hindering me in both.

@rugby_lifting

The incline at my current gym is only a slight angle less then up right and I feel so weak on it but it’s basically a BB shoulder press. The angle also feels terrible for my shoulders so I tend to stay away from it at this gym.

Can you not drag an adjustable bench into a rack?

I’m with you on dips. With it being the exercise we’ve done the least, we probably stand to make the most gains from it though.

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

@cdep89

To go with your statement, I was marrying two concepts and it was hindering me in both.

Well, I think you were making the opposite point, but these are valid comments =)
Train big lifts like big lifts, and the rest for hypertrophy. No sense in running high rep bench press for the sake of gainz when better exercises are out there to accomplish this.

Going for a big bench without the intent of attending a powerlifting meet is sheerly for the sake of ego, and I’m here for it. If you wanted to train both hypertrophy and strength, then I still recommend following my advice above, wherein following a planned progression model for the lift (bench, in this case) but with assistance work that would improve hypertrophy as well… This is how I’ve pretty much always modeled my training, only it’s been much more effective when using 5/3/1 base.

Ignore the weight for non-strength movements (dealer’s choice on which ones to pick, I like reverse-grip bench and flyes) and just focus on the pump/mind-muscle connection. My Chest/Tricep strength/hypertrophy day would look like this: (note that I don’t currently train like this)

1. 5/3/1 Bench
2. Either: Weighted Dips OR Close Grip Bench (heavy)
3. Cable Flyes (3s negative + extreme stretch)
4. Reverse-grip bench (forced/cheat reps with 3s negative)
5. Overhead Tricep Movement (Single DB Triceps Ext for me)

This would meet goals of increased weight (first priority) while still producing enough intensification activity via subsequent exercises to still stimulate growth.

[TrainForPain]

Just noting I couldn’t agree more with what @Andrewgen_Receptors said there.

I don’t care that much about progressing anymore that I’m willing to do even the back-of-the-napkin thinking that 5/3/1 requires, but I completely agree that training movements and building muscle are two different animals.

I like Meadows’ basic set-ups, because I’m old and cranky/ creaky, but when I get bored there I throw in a CT rep scheme for awhile. So let’s say leg day might look like:

1. Lying leg curls: 10/8/6/12
2. Squats: 7/5/3 waves
3. Hack squat: Work up to a heavy 12 + myo reps
4. BFR leg extensions: 4 x 15
5. RDL: work up to a heavy 8 + double rest pause
6. Prowler push: 4-6 sets of 40m (we’ll pretend this is my calf work)

In fact, now I’m feeling like a genius, so that’s probably this afternoon’s leg day. I guess the point is we can probably split some difference since we aren’t getting on stage. I can’t handle the heavy lifting very well when I start getting really lean, which I haven’t done in maybe 5 years; I think that’s where we see the “bodybuilding” training really show itself.

After writing this out, I realize it’s got nothing to do with bench day, but whatever - every day is leg day, bro.

[rugby_lifting]

I think if I dragged a bench into the squat rack I’d be hated forever lol I’ve got the options of incline DBs (which I’m currently using) and then incline smith which actually feels quite good.

It’s something I’ve often pondered and thought about but can you be ‘big’ without being able to hit some kind of strength benchmark. In my mind, how can I be small or at least not bigger than I am now if I go from benching say benching 85kg for 10 to 100kg for 10.

I’ll maybe come back to this topic when I have more time.

[cdep89]

I didn’t think that was such a bad thing, it certainly isn’t in the gym I go to as it is the only way people can do it safely. Then again, people row in the fucking racks at my gym.

“Dude can you row outside of the rack” probably happens every single day.

[rugby_lifting]

At least they weren’t curling in the squat rack!

The only reason it would annoy people at my gym is we only have 1 rack you can squat in but do have the smith and incline and incline benches for incline.

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

@rugby_lifting

if I dragged a bench into the squat rack I’d be hated forever

If it were at my gym, this would be a fair assumption as I would one of the people hating you

Squat racks are for squats.
Benches are for benching.
Platforms are for various Olympic lifts (deadlifts can be included).

Power Racks can be used for various heavy lifts… i suppose bench could be included here, but most people I find benching in the power rack have less than 2 plates on bench.

Not that less than 2 plates is bad, just that if you die under 225lbs - you probably deserve it IMO. Just let the plates fall off the side like an adult lol.

[cdep89]

You guys are spoilt. Standing/Seated Overhead Press, Incline/Decline Barbell Benching, Squat variations and even fucking dips can only be done in the one of two racks in my gym. And with there being only one dedicated barbell bench area, people often flat bench in them too.

It gets worse. The only pullups bars in the gym are attached to them so you get people asking “is it okay if I do some weighted chins behind you?”. Sometimes you walk in and it feels replicant of a jungle gym you’d take your kids to.

[rugby_lifting]

Jesus that sounds horrid!

[TrainForPain]

Is this thing on?

I’m still on the road, but well-equipped hotel gyms this time. I decided to play around with the CT “Best Damn” this week, and get back to something a little more structured next week. He’s got new ones dropping in the forum soon, it looks like; I’ll likely do that when they’re available.

Today was Push

• 20 minutes incline treadmill - go Bengals

1. Leg Press
   Worked up to the stack
   RP set: 7 + 3 + 1

2. Machine Press
   Tried to do it like a floor press - close grip, dead-stop
   Worked up to a little less than the stack
   5 cluster reps

3. Slow Eccentric Incline DB
   40/6
   50/12ish + stretch hold

4. DB Side Raise + Myo Reps
   20/6
   30/12 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3

5. 5 rounds of:

• 20 KB swings
• 20 rope pulls