Sick of the Whining

Training Powerlifting
41

[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
…some posts…[/quote]
Sorry to hear about your lack of progress mate. If I was in your position the first thing I would do is look for someone in your gym that is as strong as you want to be and see if you can train with them, or if they are in short supply, find a gym where there are lots of them (generally, stronger trainees get sick of the lack of heavy dumbells, heavy-duty equipment in commercial gyms and go somewhere else).

There are probably BBing shows and powerlifting meets going on close enough to you & the local guys competing have to train somewhere? Working out in a proper bodybuilding or powerlifting gym could change everything. Forget perfecting the perfect programme - those guys will show you how to train right, and that will help you in any programme.

Secondly, I may be making wild assumptions here, but both your progress to date & your (as I’m picking it up) attitude seem to hint at low testosterone? Depending on what age you are, have you thought about picking up some Alpha Male?

I’ve known many types of trainee & I’ve known guys who have trained for years without any progress, but there’s always been something they were/weren’t doing holding them back. BTW, that’s meant to give you hope, not knocking you man.

Lastly, like someone already mentioned on this thread, alot of the stuff on this site is for advanced trainees. Your mind can only focus on so many things at once, so make sure it’s the big issues that you’re getting right & don’t get caught up on the little stuff (e.g. making sure your flax is ground finely enough for proper absorbtion, but forgetting to have two of your meals that day).

People like us, who are not advanced trainees, can make progress with very basic programmes and are much better off focusing on putting all our effort into each lift and set, eating right of course and pretty much forgetting the little stuff for a while.

You’ve got to get your head “in the zone” when you’re lifting. Remind yourself before each set that all that time you’ve spent getting your food right the last two days, all that time spent browsing T-Nation and thinking about lifting & growing, that it all comes down to the next 30 seconds - or whatever, just do whatever you need to to make sure you get the most out of each exercise.

42

Oh come on. The whining is fun to listen to. It is what seperates, well, us from them. I can’t grow, I’m too skinny, blah, blah, blah. If you get tired of it don’t read it. The best advice you can give to the whiners is, “It is obviously not your fault that you can’t (insert whine here). It is your genetics, no one supports you, you are different.”

People want to hear only that it is not their fault. 90% of the problems you read about can be fixed by 1 of 3 different ways. You have to work harder, you have to eat better, you have to change the routine you like and are comfortable with. Working hard day in and day out and eating right aint fun.

43

There are two things not happening if you can’t gain size and strength, 1. you’re not eating enough 2. you’re not training with a group of guys that are bigger and stronger than you. reading training programs and thinking you know something is different than the knowing you get by seeing it and then doing it.

I had a skinny buddy who started off pretty weak than squatted over 700 after a few years of training.

It can be done.

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[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
I’ve done so much research on different boards, reading searches/posts etc but its jsut not working. Thats why i get pissed when ppl start saying that genetics doens’t paly a role, because cleary with me it does.
[/quote]

The internet is not the real world. Half of the information you get is from 17 year olds that don’t have a clue, or at least think they know a lot more than they do.

Go to PL meets etc and find real people to train with. Even if it is only 1 day per week. You will learn more in that one day than you would in a liftime of reading forums.

If you aren’t willing to find the people to lift with you deserve to stay weak. It is part of paying your dues.

If you find people to train with, be respectful, polite, punctual and do what you are told. They are doing you a favor.

I live in a small town, but train with some big guys. We have to drive about a half hour so we can hook up. We will help anyone who comes, and let anyone train with us. But if you bring an attitude, say “I can’t” or act like a drama queen to bench 185 we will kick your butt out. Most kids (under 22) have fallen into the whiner category and we boot them.

This isn’t elementary school where everyone gets a star and cookies for participation. This doesn’t build false self esteem. If you work hard and pay your dues, it will build real self esteem.

45

I think part of the whining and feeling down about themselves comes from this stuff giving regular people unrealistic expectations. Most people cannot come anywhere near a 405 squat in HS, it just isnt going to happen.

But you come on here and state that half the football team did it in yours. So then some average joe 150# 17 year old comes on here and reads that and wonders why he sucks so much, oh, it must be genetics. Maybe 20% of all HS kids have the ability to squat 405 with enough training, most people dont. Its just a fact. 315 takes years for the majority of people. But all anyone reads on these sites is how some 12 year old squats 495 for 10 reps after two weeks of training and people get discouraged.

The thing that gets me is how people are squatting 405 with no suit but can only deadlift 455??? How is that?

46

[quote]the juggernaut wrote:
The thing that gets me is how people are squatting 405 with no suit but can only deadlift 455??? How is that?[/quote]
What’s odd about that?

47

[quote]Easy E wrote:
Taquito wrote:
My bench was around 250 (november 2006) before my elbow and that was early in my sophomore year.

You benched 250 before your elbow did?[/quote]

Yeah, but now through hard work and Westside-stylee his elbow has crested 300 and the rest of him is trying to catch up…

48

[quote]the juggernaut wrote:

The thing that gets me is how people are squatting 405 with no suit but can only deadlift 455??? How is that?[/quote]

I’ve never been that guy- personally I remember missing 225 in one of my first squat sessions, but pulling 405 for a triple my first time deadlifting. However, I think some guys are just made to squat but have weaknesses of injuries that impair seemingly more-natural act of pick up a weight off the floor.

Going back to the original post, those are some good numbers. I have had a similar experience with training. It took me a little longer than it took him, but I started in my mid-20s rather than my mid-teens. And it was primarily built on the similar concept of generally lifting heavy and taking the most anabolic substance on earth- food.

Being a relative newcomer to AAS, I have been less than dazzled by the results. Don’t get me wrong- good sauce makes training and life in general a little more interesting. But in my experierce thus far, anabolics are not the magic potions that some make them out to be. The good and the bad of AAS is, just as with most drugs, an index of pop culture hyperbole.

49

[quote]t-ha wrote:
the juggernaut wrote:
The thing that gets me is how people are squatting 405 with no suit but can only deadlift 455??? How is that?
What’s odd about that?

[/quote]

Whats odd about that is most people I have seen that are far from being elite have a deadlift about a 100# greater than their squat. I am talking about nothing other than a belt. Maybe I live in a vacuum though. And in my vacuum, I would say most people will have an easier time pulling 400# than squatting 300# to parallel.

50

[quote]the juggernaut wrote:
t-ha wrote:
the juggernaut wrote:
The thing that gets me is how people are squatting 405 with no suit but can only deadlift 455??? How is that?
What’s odd about that?

Whats odd about that is most people I have seen that are far from being elite have a deadlift about a 100# greater than their squat. I am talking about nothing other than a belt. Maybe I live in a vacuum though. And in my vacuum, I would say most people will have an easier time pulling 400# than squatting 300# to parallel.[/quote]

You’re right. Look at the powerlifting records of the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s (pre-equipment days). Most of the squats and deads were fairly close with an edge going to the deadlift. Even in my experience with myself and other training partners, our unequipped deads are heavier than our unequipped squats. Of course there will always be exceptions, but I agree with the heavier deadlift to squat ratio.

David

51

Well, you know A LOT of us are sick of the whining. But this is the internet. Short of banning accounts based on posts, T-Nation will continually get people who don’t make progress and like to bitch. Still a pretty great site with excellent articles and information. I think the knowledgeable posters who add to my training also more than make up for the rifraff.

52

[quote]MarkN3 wrote:
T Affliction,
Is the HIT program you’re referring to ND when Mickey Marotti was there? I went to 3 of his clinics, and I wasn’t very impressed with how he ran his program or the speakers he brought in.

If I remember right, his program was pretty much Hammer Strength based. I remember reading last year after Mendoza took ND’s S&C position, that he was going to have to teach his guys how to squat, olympic lift, etc…

Mark Nilles[/quote]

Mark - Yes, I suffered under Coach Marotti. I felt he was a great person, very motivational and no-nonsense, and some of RS freshman needed that.

On the other hand, I drew direct parallels to some of the earlier posts discussed by Bauer on this site… I got weaker, slower, less-explosive. Some of this can be written off to natural in-season losses, but some of it was just overboard. I never had an opportunity to fully recover.

WE DID NOT SQUAT/DL, instead we had leg press drop sets 'til failure, wall sits, “run-the-rack” dumbbell complexes of military press, incline, and flat bench, more isometric holds. IMHO athletes should not train like that. I hypertrophied when I was able to recover, but I’d have rather held onto my strength. A premium was not put on the posterior chain.

As a corollary to this, and to address some of the other doubtful posts, I came from a hotbed of high school football in Illinois, and junior/senior year football players took a class called powerlifting in lieu of gym. We squatted, DL’ed, and benched. We learned the basics of the Olympic lifts. We did weighted dips and pullups. We didn’t do curls.

My graduating class was not the exception or anything, those numbers were pretty normal for the linemen who put in work. I didn’t know of anyone on my team that was using AAS.

Every summer there is a powerlifting meet in Joliet at Rudy’s Gym (yes, that Rudy). Lockport competes against three other area schools that I’ve already mentioned in this thread. JCA and Providence routinely beat us. Bolingbrook is more cyclical.

Regardless, there are probably 2-3 high school kids going into their senior year each year from JCA and Providence that put up 3/5/5/ lifts. I distinctly remember a linebacker who now plays for Northwestern from JCA who pressed 365 the summer between his sophomore/junior year at a bodyweight of 225, and also a defensive tackle from Bolingbrook who now plays for Iowa who pressed 405 the summer between his junior/senior, I believe he holds the all-time record.

53

Do you ND guys remember when Jerry Schmidt was there (around 1990)?
We used to do some business together and swap training idea.
He said Lou Holtz wouldn’t let him have the players squat. They used the Universal “Heavy Metal” plate loaded leg press / hip sled. But they did do Oly lifts.

54

IronStallion,

Meh. All you’ve proven thus far is that you can whine but you can’t lift.

I think it’s great that you think you have bad genetics but believe me, you’ve no idea. Going through Marine Corps boot teaches you many things, but one thing reinforced an ideal pounded into my head since I can remember:

Work, and discipline bring success.

Nothing else stands in your way. I don’t know you and I probably will never have the opportunity to do so. What I can tell is that you lack discipline. How? Your spelling. People who are successful are generally good at many things. You can tell whether someone will be a good workout partner or employee by how they pack their bag for work.

Think about what I’ve said thus far before you reply.

Ratchet up your work ethic. Ratchet it up in your head and in your heart. After you’ve fallen prostrate from exhaustion summon the will to gaze at the prize with your one good eye, pick yourself up and carry on.

55

[quote]quan2m wrote:
What I can tell is that you lack discipline. How? Your spelling. People who are successful are generally good at many things.[/quote]

Einstein was a notoriously bad speller.

56

One of the things everyone is missing here is that most people that suck aren’t going to post their numbers.

That leaves only two other groups of people to post.

  1. Those people who have (atleast in their minds) above average lifts.

  2. Trolls and wannabee’s who quarter squat 405 and call it ATG.

So the beginners who read this site end up with the impression that everyone starts with a 300lb bench, 400lb squat and 500lb deadlift and then works their way up.

It is much more common to see someone post grossly inflated numbers, rather than risking being ridiculed for what may be perceived as weaker numbers.

The reason so many people whine about their strength/genetics/etc. is that they assume that everyone is better than them, when in reality half the people on this site either don’t post their numbers or post illegitimate numbers.

57

I want my teddy! I want to take roids to cheat like a closet tough guy! Why can’t I be cool like you? Why did mommy leave? Why does daddy have tits?

58

[quote]quan2m wrote:
IronStallion,

Meh. All you’ve proven thus far is that you can whine but you can’t lift.

I think it’s great that you think you have bad genetics but believe me, you’ve no idea. Going through Marine Corps boot teaches you many things, but one thing reinforced an ideal pounded into my head since I can remember:

Work, and discipline bring success.

Nothing else stands in your way. I don’t know you and I probably will never have the opportunity to do so. What I can tell is that you lack discipline. How? Your spelling. People who are successful are generally good at many things. You can tell whether someone will be a good workout partner or employee by how they pack their bag for work.

Think about what I’ve said thus far before you reply.

Ratchet up your work ethic. Ratchet it up in your head and in your heart. After you’ve fallen prostrate from exhaustion summon the will to gaze at the prize with your one good eye, pick yourself up and carry on.[/quote]

my spelling…?? what does that have to do with anything? i also don’t understand how being in the marine corps would change my opinions of my crappy genetics…

Anyways, if you read my post you would have seen that i do have a work ethic… i devote many hours/week at the gym, and alot of free time on the web reading into training. Its easy to stay “stop whining” when you have decent gains weeek in and weak out. IT easy to say “meh ppl are pussies and just blame genetics when they’re really too lazy to bust their ass”, when oyu yourself are seeing steady prgress.

Again its not my work ethic, its jsut that my body DOESN’t ADAPT TO THE TRAINING STIMULI that i invoke on it… its puzzling… I squat each week and expect to see gains, but i don’t. Same goes for my other lifts. I was sprining 2x/week PROPERLY and you’d think i’d adapt and get at least a little faster… but no, instead i get a pulled hammy.

If its not genetics that what the heck is it? work ethic? nope as i said above.

lack of professional coaching? perhaps that would help, but most ppl don’t have this luxury but still see gains…

bad program design? nope.

so don’t call me a whiner, a lazy-ass etc etc, becuase its simply not true.

59

[quote]T Affliction G wrote:
MarkN3 wrote:
Regardless, there are probably 2-3 high school kids going into their senior year each year from JCA and Providence that put up 3/5/5/ lifts. I distinctly remember a linebacker who now plays for Northwestern from JCA who pressed 365 the summer between his sophomore/junior year at a bodyweight of 225, and also a defensive tackle from Bolingbrook who now plays for Iowa who pressed 405 the summer between his junior/senior, I believe he holds the all-time record.[/quote]

His name is Ryan Bain. My best friend from highschool is LB at Iowa and says he’s a beast in the weightroom. The way it sounds is that he should see a lot of playing time this upcoming season.

60

[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
my goals are simple… to get stronger and faster…

I knew my genetics sucked cuz i was a weakling before i started and i mean a WEAKLING… now three years later i’m still weak.

I’ve researched many programs/routines and asked many questions from ppl that know their shit and yet my gains still suck. Sure i don’t have access to a coach or pro, but what am i supposed to do? all can i do is use what i have avaialbe and that happens to be the internet.

Trust me i’ve planned out most of my routines very well and got green lights from lots of people online, but yet as i said my gains suck.

When you have somone like me who started out as weak as girl with the body type of an ectomorph, then gets pathetic n00b gains you can tell that genetics is factor. Heck my gains as a noob were less than most intermedieate to advancd lifters get during my time frame of training… its very discouraging indeed, but i still train becuase its fun… i’m resolved mysself that i will never be strong or fast…
[/quote]

Like the other guy said, I don’t know you, I don’t how you train, but your mindstate is all wrong for this. I think if you change your mindstate, you might make some gains. This is the hardest thing to do. The mindstate is the most important thing, it dictates how successful you will be in all endeavors, gym, life, etc.

By you saying you will never be strong and fast, you will truly never be strong or fast. You are dooming yourself before you even try. Zane won the Olympia in his 40s. There are countless others who it took many years of hard work and dedication. 10 plus years of training.

But you, you’re special. After 3 years of work (let’s give you the benefit of the doubt you’ve been training, eating, and recovering properly) you’re done, you’ve tapped out and that’s it, and you’re body has nothing left? I highly doubt that.

Have you seen pics of Dorian before he started training? He had the body of a 10 year old boy. People can cry drugs all day, but his accomplishments are amazing.

Most people who are successful in the gym game and in life in general have the right mindstate and don’t have great genetics. They bust fucking chops. Why would you even worry about genetics as there is no way to accurately predict what your genetic cieling is. Just bust fucking chops and learn all you can.