BUT, all that stuff (how to achieve strength goals, etc.) is fun to think about but it’s hard man. Why would anyone want to do anything that’s hard? This is the unconscious attitude of the majority.
[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
uhm believe it or not genetics DOES paly a role… some poepl just respond quicker to traning than others. Some people have a higher proportion of fast twitch fibres and thus have more strenght/power potential than others… its a fact dude.[/quote]
My first PL meet was 25 years ago this month, have a couple of record and a MS in Exercise Phys. The original poster hit the reason I don’t usually post on forums.
Many people ask for help to reinforce that their failure is not their fault. The answers that you don’t want to hear are usually the ones you need.
Some people are limited by genetics. 100% true, most are not. It is like all heavy girls saying they are big boned with a slow metabolism. Maybe 1% are, but for the rest it is a convenient excuse and absolves them of responsibility for their own failure to meet their expectations.
90% of the people looking for advice are beginners in denial about being beginners, and just need to pay their dues.
Two suggestions will address almost all of the questions.
#1 Learn at the feet of the master. Find someone who IS good and actually train with them. Emails, articles and seminars are not enough. Yes you have to find them, it’s part of your dues.
#2 Shut up and lift.
Most don’t lack resources, they lack resourcefulness.
Sometimes I wonder how much good modeling and coaching have to do with it too.
I had good coaches from the time I started wrestling when I was young. I credit them for teaching me the things I needed to reach what ever goal I may choose.
I wonder how many of the whiney blamers have ever had coaches that drilled the living shit out of them and showed them what they are actualy capable of, or gave them a good swat up side the head if they were fucking around.
I know that I’m guilty from time to time of a lack of basic discipline and obedience. In some people it is just plain missing.
I agree with everything that Affliction is saying…people just need to shut up and lift…ask and get advice when necessary, but dont point fingers for your own laziness…i like your mindset Affliction, keep it up bro, good luck with everything
Good post, but did anyone think those squats were a little high in comparison to the bench? My bench was around 250 (november 2006) before my elbow and that was early in my sophomore year. My best squat was 285(june 2006). This was at the end of freshman year but still I got 220 on bench that day. Its possible I’m a little lightbulby, but still…
i’d say that i’m in the group that has ppor genetoics…
why??
well for starters i never got any noob gains, when i started squating and deadlifting on a well planned out routines my gains were nothing compared to what is expected for a n00bie…
now 3 years later and after trying different rouitnes, doing sprint training/plyos, i’m still barely better than i was when i started… if you’re gonna say thois becuase of lack fo hard-work or someting, then you don’t no me.
Genetics is the only reasonable conclusion to my shitty gains.
T Affliction,
Is the HIT program you’re referring to ND when Mickey Marotti was there? I went to 3 of his clinics, and I wasn’t very impressed with how he ran his program or the speakers he brought in.
If I remember right, his program was pretty much Hammer Strength based. I remember reading last year after Mendoza took ND’s S&C position, that he was going to have to teach his guys how to squat, olympic lift, etc…
Mark Nilles
[quote]Taquito wrote:
Good post, but did anyone think those squats were a little high in comparison to the bench? My bench was around 250 (november 2006) before my elbow and that was early in my sophomore year. My best squat was 285(june 2006). This was at the end of freshman year but still I got 220 on bench that day. Its possible I’m a little lightbulby, but still…[/quote]
I didn’t think so. That’s why they have 300/400/500 clubs. Besides, most football players I know spend more time and effort squatting than benching.
Very good point.
[quote]drdgmuro wrote:
Most don’t lack resources, they lack resourcefulness.[/quote]
It’s hard to determine your genetics without knowing your goals, current level, and KNOWLEDGE.
Say you have a guy who is very genetically gifted in terms of reactive and jumping ability and he wants to increase his VJ. Say he’s gotten to a 30" vertical jump without lifting weights. He trys every different plyometric program and variation but his VJ doesn’t go up.
He determines that he’s reached his genetic limit after years of plyo programs with no results.
We find out that this guy is weak as piss. He weighs 175 and squats 225. Bring his squat up and his VJ will go up. But he may not have known where to look to find that information. Chances are though, if he really wanted it bad enough, he would have asked enough questions and done enough research to find that out.
If any of us knew as much as Louie Simmons about strength, I’m absolutely sure we’d be stronger than what our genetic limits appear to be.
Once you get past a beginner level and your moving from intermediate to advanced, hard work is no longer a limiting factor. Fuck, I could work out to failure on every single set with minimal rest and workout 2 hours a day, 5x a week if I thought it would make me stronger. But it won’t.
What limits people from reaching their genetic potential is their KNOWLEDGE and the SACRIFICE that they will make to get what they want.
-MAtt
[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
i’d say that i’m in the group that has ppor genetoics…
why??
well for starters i never got any noob gains, when i started squating and deadlifting on a well planned out routines my gains were nothing compared to what is expected for a n00bie…
now 3 years later and after trying different rouitnes, doing sprint training/plyos, i’m still barely better than i was when i started… if you’re gonna say thois becuase of lack fo hard-work or someting, then you don’t no me.
Genetics is the only reasonable conclusion to my shitty gains.[/quote]
[quote]T Affliction G wrote:
This is my first thread, and I wanted to wait until I could make a decent point - but here goes: Okay, so day in and day out, I peruse T-Nation (like most of you), and the most common thing I see are people ASKING stupid questions, COMPLAINING about their lack of progress, and CALLING B.S. about purported natural lifters.
I am 21 years old and have been lifting seriously for four years. In that time, I went from a 178lb. soccer player to a high-water mark of 275lb., and I am now at a very athletic 260lb. (at a height of 6’4) playing college football, with a respectable body fat. During this time, I did not touch any supplement considered illegal by the NCAA. This means no pro-hormones/steroids.
In my senior year of high school, we had half of the d-line and o-line pulling 450+, squatting 400+, and benching 250+. This is high school, these are not genetic freaks. These are kids who ate whatever was served in the cafeteria. These are kids who know nothing about even the most basic concepts served here on T-Nation.
Those with genetically fast metabolisms were leaner, others carried more fat but were still that strong. The sad part is, these numbers are higher than the majority of the T-Nation population.
Most recently, I have box-squatted 585, and last week I hit a PR in three-board press at 455 x 2. I can do pull-up triples with 80lbs. of additional weight. I have run 40’s in the low 4.6’s. Vertical is 36" when last tested. I have 19" arms w/o doing very much direct bicep work.
My original college program was HEAVILY drug-tested, so I could not have used AAS. I have since transferred to a I-AA school, where it is more lax, but remain drug-free. The point I’m trying to make is that IT’S NOT THAT HARD. I’ve done bodybuilding training, powerlifting training, Westside training, WS4SB, Inno-sport, Evo-Sport, and HIT (honestly didn’t like this very much but I went to a HIT college program). IT ALL WORKS. Christ, just put in the effort and eat, then eat some more.
The only thing that sets me apart from the average person or college athlete is that I RARELY drink and I try to get 8 hours of rest.
I’m sick of the people that accuse others of steroid use to try and make up for their own ineptitude, sick of the people who ask stupid questions that I researched my own answers to, sick of the people that complain they cannot gain weight/size/strength, both on this site and in RL. Hopefully somebody here agrees with me. Let the debate begin.[/quote]
You are very right.
[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
i’d say that i’m in the group that has ppor genetoics…
why??
well for starters i never got any noob gains, when i started squating and deadlifting on a well planned out routines my gains were nothing compared to what is expected for a n00bie…
now 3 years later and after trying different rouitnes, doing sprint training/plyos, i’m still barely better than i was when i started… if you’re gonna say thois becuase of lack fo hard-work or someting, then you don’t no me.
Genetics is the only reasonable conclusion to my shitty gains.[/quote]
Not to be an ass, and I don’t know you, but very few people are in any way objective about what they themselves do. Everyone cannot be the exception to the rule.
You said “well planned out routines”.
Were these done face to face with someone more experienced, or researched from the web?
If you got them from the web, and you are not making gains, there is a 99% chance that you are doing something majorly wrong, or picked stupid programs (there are a couple) or programs to advanced for you.
The problem being a beginner (I define arbitrarily as under 3-5 years competitive experience) you simply do not know enough to seperate the BS from the good.
Again, I only know you from your post. But if you are trying to get bigger and stronger, you are probably doing to much (different rouitnes, doing sprint training/plyos) and not the right stuff.
The articles on here are great, but most of the stuff is WAY OVER A BEGINNERS HEAD.
Do something simple like a 5x5 of squats day one; 5x5 of bench or incline day two, rest day three, 5x5 of deads day 4 and 5x5 of overhead presses day five (include 5-8 total sets of assistance each day and do 3-5 sets of abs with resistance on squat and dead day) you will make gains.
The problem is, even with that basic of a program, if you don’t work with someone, your form will be so bad it still might not help.
Final complaint, just because it is sexy doesn’t mean it is right. I have squatted and deadlifted over 4X bodyweight and benched aboout 2.5x bodyweight in national level meets. Basically I squat, deadlift and bench until I want to crawl under a rock, with about 2 assistance exercise per day. It doesn’t take that much, and it dosn’t freaking have to be rocket science.
[quote]Taquito wrote:
Good post, but did anyone think those squats were a little high in comparison to the bench? My bench was around 250 (november 2006) before my elbow and that was early in my sophomore year. My best squat was 285(june 2006). This was at the end of freshman year but still I got 220 on bench that day. Its possible I’m a little lightbulby, but still…[/quote]
You benched 250 before your elbow did?
[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
i’d say that i’m in the group that has ppor genetoics…
why??
well for starters i never got any noob gains, when i started squating and deadlifting on a well planned out routines my gains were nothing compared to what is expected for a n00bie…
now 3 years later and after trying different rouitnes, doing sprint training/plyos, i’m still barely better than i was when i started… if you’re gonna say thois becuase of lack fo hard-work or someting, then you don’t no me.
Genetics is the only reasonable conclusion to my shitty gains.[/quote]
I don’t doubt your work ethic at all. I am probably safe to say that you bust your ass just as hard as the next guy, but why are you training? Really ask yourself why. Do you have a measurable goal in mind that you have written down and thought about attaining? Do you see yourself attaining that magical squat or deadlift number? Do you ever wonder how it would feel to lock out that bench press that you have worked so hard to get?
Have you ever thought about your workouts outside of the gym, before you drive to the gym, sitting in the car on the way to the gym? I think that just by the fact you are here puts you in a group outside of the casual trainer, but what separates the average from the elite is mindset.
I thought I was only a 600lb deadlifter until I changed my mind and decided that I am now a 700lb. deadlifter. In time, I will be an 800lb deadlifter. Only 75 lbs. to go…
David
my goals are simple… to get stronger and faster…
I knew my genetics sucked cuz i was a weakling before i started and i mean a WEAKLING… now three years later i’m still weak.
I’ve researched many programs/routines and asked many questions from ppl that know their shit and yet my gains still suck. Sure i don’t have access to a coach or pro, but what am i supposed to do? all can i do is use what i have avaialbe and that happens to be the internet.
Trust me i’ve planned out most of my routines very well and got green lights from lots of people online, but yet as i said my gains suck.
When you have somone like me who started out as weak as girl with the body type of an ectomorph, then gets pathetic n00b gains you can tell that genetics is factor. Heck my gains as a noob were less than most intermedieate to advancd lifters get during my time frame of training… its very discouraging indeed, but i still train becuase its fun… i’m resolved mysself that i will never be strong or fast…
You can almost always be strongER or fastER.
So what did your lifts and bw start at and what are they now? What are your indicators for whether or not you are getting better?
What does your routine like now? What about in the past? Are you getting enough sleep? Eating enough?
I don’t want to hijack this thread- feel free to PM me with the answers to these questions.
-MAtt
[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
my goals are simple… to get stronger and faster…
I knew my genetics sucked cuz i was a weakling before i started and i mean a WEAKLING… now three years later i’m still weak.
I’ve researched many programs/routines and asked many questions from ppl that know their shit and yet my gains still suck. Sure i don’t have access to a coach or pro, but what am i supposed to do? all can i do is use what i have avaialbe and that happens to be the internet.
Trust me i’ve planned out most of my
routines very well and got green lights from lots of people online, but yet as i said my gains suck.
When you have somone like me who started out as weak as girl with the body type of an ectomorph, then gets pathetic n00b gains you can tell that genetics is factor. Heck my gains as a noob were less than most intermedieate to advancd lifters get during my time frame of training… its very discouraging indeed, but i still train becuase its fun… i’m resolved mysself that i will never be strong or fast…
[/quote]
[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
i’m resolved mysself that i will never be strong or fast…
[/quote]
That says it all.
You need to work on that.
[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
my goals are simple… to get stronger and faster…
I knew my genetics sucked cuz i was a weakling before i started and i mean a WEAKLING… now three years later i’m still weak.
[/quote]
…but you progressed, right? You weren’t doing the same weights, for the same number of reps, with about the same level of exertion as you did when you first started were you?
I suspect you weren’t. In fact, I’d guarantee you weren’t. Even if you showed up and half-assed it, you’d progress a little bit.
Bottom line is that you progressed. And from that, I ask you “What the heck were you expecting?”
Did you think you’d be pressing 495 in a mere three years? Did you think you’d go from weak-as-a-girl to Atlas in a few months?
This takes a LONG time. That’s why the key is patience and consistency, and you’re showing that you are sorely lacking at least the patience.
If you were progressing, no matter how little, then why are you giving up?
[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
i’m resolved mysself that i will never be strong or fast…
[/quote]
It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy you’re making there.
ofcourse i progressed… but the gains are so pathetic i doubt you’d have any more motivation than i do if you were in my positition…
The funniest is when i see noobs that have only been lifting for like 2 months surpass my strength levels. Seriously sometimes i jsut wonder whether it was/is worth all the time/effort i put in. My gains have defeinetly not been worth the time to this date, i would have been better off sing that time to study or do community service instead of trying to become a better athelete.
To give you an idea:
when i started lifting properly (prior to this i was jsut doing leg presses machine bench and curls)… my squat was around 135 (poor form likely), bench was 120, and deadlift was like 145… (keep in mind i had already been lifting for about a year, but stupidly with crap routines)… so after 3 years of trying different things (max-ot, 5x5, custom routines involving speed training etc) my numbers are 210 parallel squat, 250 lbl deadlift and 175 lbs bench…
Now cmmon tell me you wouldn’t be discoruageed if thats all you have to show after 3 years of training… i’m noramlly to embarrsed to tell ppl how long i’ve been training for, and if someone asks i usally say only a year lol…
people’s n00b gains usually take them alot further than those numbers, but not me. I’d love to see that weekly 5-10bls gain in the main lifts, but those gains come sporadically and inconsistantly for me.
I’ve done so much research on different boards, reading searches/posts etc but its jsut not working. Thats why i get pissed when ppl start saying that genetics doens’t paly a role, because cleary with me it does.
my bodyweight is 150lbs i started at around 125 (mind you i was still growing)… now i jsut seem to be gaining bodyfat but not strength… awesome aint it?
I eat enough, and besides i don’t even care about getting anyway, its just str/speed that i’m after and if size comes with that than so be it…(basically i’m not the type that will TRY to gain mass)…
Another frustrating thing is that after follwing a well designed sprint program for over a eyar i’ve seen NO gains in 40 yard dash…
sigh…