Sick of the Whining

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

This is my first thread, and I wanted to wait until I could make a decent point - but here goes: Okay, so day in and day out, I peruse T-Nation (like most of you), and the most common thing I see are people ASKING stupid questions, COMPLAINING about their lack of progress, and CALLING B.S. about purported natural lifters.

I am 21 years old and have been lifting seriously for four years. In that time, I went from a 178lb. soccer player to a high-water mark of 275lb., and I am now at a very athletic 260lb. (at a height of 6’4) playing college football, with a respectable body fat. During this time, I did not touch any supplement considered illegal by the NCAA. This means no pro-hormones/steroids.

In my senior year of high school, we had half of the d-line and o-line pulling 450+, squatting 400+, and benching 250+. This is high school, these are not genetic freaks. These are kids who ate whatever was served in the cafeteria. These are kids who know nothing about even the most basic concepts served here on T-Nation.

Those with genetically fast metabolisms were leaner, others carried more fat but were still that strong. The sad part is, these numbers are higher than the majority of the T-Nation population.

Most recently, I have box-squatted 585, and last week I hit a PR in three-board press at 455 x 2. I can do pull-up triples with 80lbs. of additional weight. I have run 40’s in the low 4.6’s. Vertical is 36" when last tested. I have 19" arms w/o doing very much direct bicep work.

My original college program was HEAVILY drug-tested, so I could not have used AAS. I have since transferred to a I-AA school, where it is more lax, but remain drug-free. The point I’m trying to make is that IT’S NOT THAT HARD. I’ve done bodybuilding training, powerlifting training, Westside training, WS4SB, Inno-sport, Evo-Sport, and HIT (honestly didn’t like this very much but I went to a HIT college program). IT ALL WORKS. Christ, just put in the effort and eat, then eat some more.

The only thing that sets me apart from the average person or college athlete is that I RARELY drink and I try to get 8 hours of rest.

I’m sick of the people that accuse others of steroid use to try and make up for their own ineptitude, sick of the people who ask stupid questions that I researched my own answers to, sick of the people that complain they cannot gain weight/size/strength, both on this site and in RL. Hopefully somebody here agrees with me. Let the debate begin.

2

If I had your GENETICS I’d be huge too. :wink: jk

3

Hi T,
Not here to debate but I’m curious as to what HS you went to. It sounds like you had some pretty strong boys there.

4

stop whining please

5

at my highschool we have a kid with almost a 1200 pound total (330/405/450) i think, complete tank. But there’s only two people at my school who are like that, the rest of the football team is fat/bad at football.

6

Superdad - Lockport Township High School

Won the state championship in 2003, never played football before that; I was a lifelong soccer player.

I made all-state but because I had only played one year of ball, and because I was playing offensive line at 220lbs., I didn’t get any DI offers. I had some DI-AA scholarship offers and below, some Ivy League opportunities, but I chose to walk-on at Notre Dame because I had my heart set on DI (hence, heavily drug tested). Switched to tight end and I was first in line for a scholarship when Coach Willingham was still at Notre Dame, but when he was fired and Coach Weis came in, he didn’t honor it. Played some special teams, that’s it.

I transferred as a scholarship player to Eastern Illinois this semester with two years of eligibility left.

I’m getting those numbers from the annual Rudy’s Power Meet where Lockport competes with JCA, Providence Catholic, and Bolingbrook.

7

[quote]T Affliction G wrote:
This is my first thread, and I wanted to wait until I could make a decent point - but here goes: Okay, so day in and day out, I peruse T-Nation (like most of you), and the most common thing I see are people ASKING stupid questions, COMPLAINING about their lack of progress, and CALLING B.S. about purported natural lifters.

I am 21 years old and have been lifting seriously for four years. In that time, I went from a 178lb. soccer player to a high-water mark of 275lb., and I am now at a very athletic 260lb. (at a height of 6’4) playing college football, with a respectable body fat. During this time, I did not touch any supplement considered illegal by the NCAA. This means no pro-hormones/steroids.

In my senior year of high school, we had half of the d-line and o-line pulling 450+, squatting 400+, and benching 250+. This is high school, these are not genetic freaks. These are kids who ate whatever was served in the cafeteria. These are kids who know nothing about even the most basic concepts served here on T-Nation.

Those with genetically fast metabolisms were leaner, others carried more fat but were still that strong. The sad part is, these numbers are higher than the majority of the T-Nation population.

Most recently, I have box-squatted 585, and last week I hit a PR in three-board press at 455 x 2. I can do pull-up triples with 80lbs. of additional weight. I have run 40’s in the low 4.6’s. Vertical is 36" when last tested. I have 19" arms w/o doing very much direct bicep work.

My original college program was HEAVILY drug-tested, so I could not have used AAS. I have since transferred to a I-AA school, where it is more lax, but remain drug-free. The point I’m trying to make is that IT’S NOT THAT HARD. I’ve done bodybuilding training, powerlifting training, Westside training, WS4SB, Inno-sport, Evo-Sport, and HIT (honestly didn’t like this very much but I went to a HIT college program). IT ALL WORKS. Christ, just put in the effort and eat, then eat some more.

The only thing that sets me apart from the average person or college athlete is that I RARELY drink and I try to get 8 hours of rest.

I’m sick of the people that accuse others of steroid use to try and make up for their own ineptitude, sick of the people who ask stupid questions that I researched my own answers to, sick of the people that complain they cannot gain weight/size/strength, both on this site and in RL. Hopefully somebody here agrees with me. Let the debate begin.[/quote]
i call bs on your lifts :slight_smile: but really, got any video?

8

Sorry, no video. I do all of my lifting in these college weightrooms, and I don’t think the strength coaches would be too keen on me bringing in a camera. I can post a picture of myself though, my physique might cement my claims a bit.

9

This thread couldn’t have come at a better time.

I completely agree. I’ve been powerlifting for a while (12 years, I think), and had training partners come and go. The ones that stayed around the longest and consistently make progress are the ones that do the extra bit of work in and specifically OUT of the gym. You already know the work outside of the gym (sleep, nutrition, pre/rehab) is as important as what you do in it. 99% of the people that fell by the wayside are the ones that pretended to eat, neglected recovery, and stayed out all night drinking. They were the ones that expected ME to come up with their next training program and were the first to complain if they didn’t reach their goals (i.e. “gee whiz bro, I don’t think this Louie Simmons guy knows what he’s talking about…”). I might help someone get started with their first training progression, but after that, you better get to reading and studying your craft if you want any more of my help. It would also help to have some clearly defined goals that you can articulate to someone if they ask you “Why are you training?”

I’m sick of the whining too,

David

10

[quote]T Affliction G wrote:
Superdad - Lockport Township High School

Won the state championship in 2003, never played football before that; I was a lifelong soccer player.

II transferred as a scholarship player to Eastern Illinois this semester with two years of eligibility left.

I’m getting those numbers from the annual Rudy’s Power Meet where Lockport competes with JCA, Providence Catholic, and Bolingbrook.[/quote]

I know all those schools as being football powerhouses, so I don’t doubt those numbers.
Are you still a TE at Eastern? Was it difficult to make the adjustment from O line?

11

It’s a good post. I think the site would be better with fewer basic questions (that could be answered w/ two minutes of research), fewer shitty physique photos, and a lot less whining about genetics and drugs. More importantly, I think it would be better if, like a couple years ago, there were more lifters who were actually accomplishing things competitively kicking ideas around. That would be more like a ‘think tank’, and less like bodybuilding’s kindergarten.

Jack Reape’s log is a HUGE asset to the site; I hope people realize that.

Competitive bodybuilders (something I’m not really interested in) putting up their logs, or throwing training ideas around, and more powerlifters, strongmen, throwers, etc. sharing ideas they’ve actually used to become good at what they do; that’s what we need more of.

12

Superdad - Yes, still a TE at Eastern. Just got here actually. Busting ass in the offseason right now, and I will start next year. Our first game is against Tennessee Tech, and it will be on ESPN U. I will be #86. After that, we go to Purdue for their home opener, and I think that game should be nationally televised as well.

The transition from O-line to TE was pretty easy actually, once I learned how to catch. I was always fast enough for a “big-skill” position. The soccer background was an enormous help; the footwork for my routes was a breeze after all the fine motor-tuning I got from working ball-skills my whole life.

Everyone else - thank you for the support.

13

Did you happen to wrestle at Lockport? I live very close to Lockport, and I know someone who helped out coaching part time there. Don’t know if he was there when you would have been, though.

Anyway, first off, I want to agree with your point for the most part. Most people do not put in the required effort to achieve high level physique, lifting, and sports related goals. Too often people blame genetics, or accuse people of drug use. Some obese people blame genetics - BS. Some people who don’t achieve much lifting, etc. blame genetics, that’s BS also. Genetics are a funny thing. You can’t judge genetics before you put in the work. Dorian Yates was a scrawny guy who didn’t start lifting until his 20’s. No one would have ever though he had the genetics to build the physique he did - until after he did it.

With that being said, you may need a little perspective. You may not be a genetic “Freak”, but you are definitely gifted. Genetics are not an all or nothing proposition. You may not think you have the genetics that some of your football peers have (you may or may not be right) but look at who you are comparing yourself to.

I don’t have articles or authors to quote exactly regarding these things, but here’s what I’ve read many top level coaches say:

  • Average trainees can usually attain a 16" lean bicep measurement. Above average genetics can get you to 17". If you have a legit muscular 19" bicep, you are a genetic freak. (Arnold was only about 19")

  • Most trainees with average genetics could probably get to the lifts you mentioned, but it would take a lot of training years to do so (probably 10 -20). Again, guys who put those numbers up in high school may not necessarily be genetic “freaks” but they are definitely above average in the genetics pool.

I understand your frustration with people not giving you your due in regards your accomplishments. At the same time, you have to admit you’re above average in the genetics lottery. If you are comparing yourself to pro athletes and Division 1 athletes, then your perspective is skewed. In essence, you might be in the top 1% of genetic potential, but because you are surrounded by people in the top .01% of genetic potential, you don’t think you’re genetically gifted. All you can do is make the best of it, and try not to worry about what people say.

14

Nothingface - No I did not wrestle at Lockport.

Also, I just wanted it to be known that I don’t really have that much frustration in regards to people not recognizing MY PERSONAL accomplishments. I didn’t post looking for compliments. I’m just making the point that most people on here are quick to point fingers, quick to say products/programs/people don’t work or are wrong. Barely anyone is willing to look in the mirror and point the finger at themselves. Barely anyone is willing to sacrifice drinking 4x a week in college for their goals. I know people from Notre Dame that went pro while doing that, and hey, more power to them, but in my opinion its wasted potential. Hell, people are posting on here talking about what supplements to take weed with.

How many people post daily about steroids when they are 180lbs. with less than 5 years of lifting experience? How many of those same people don’t understand the basics of peri-workout nutrition? Don’t get 8 hours of sleep a night? Don’t understand macronutrient timing/protocols? Don’t understand insulin sensitivity and how to manipulate it? Don’t understand what effect different rep ranges have on muscle fibers, or even basic muscle anatomy? Don’t understand CNS fatigue, what creates it, and how to manage it? I’m sure I’m missing tons here, but that’s off the top of my head.

Simply answered questions. If my genetics are above average, then I’m thankful as the next guy. But genetics don’t dictate work ethic. Maybe more people should hold themselves to the elite athlete standards as a motivating tactic, or elite BB’ers, or elite PL’ers, pick your poison. Instead, we get 163lb.'ers armed with a GNC sales pitch on why they should bulk or cut that are unwilling to take any advice they receive anyway.

So, back to my original point, IT’S NOT THAT HARD. 4 years, 80lbs. of LBM, significant increase in all indicators of athletic performance, NO AAS, and one hell of a ride. “Above-average genetics”? Yes, probably. Unmatched determination, a willingness to sacrifice, and insatiable desire for knowledge? Definitely. Which is in shorter supply around these parts?

15

[quote]T Affliction G wrote:

So, back to my original point, IT’S NOT THAT HARD. 4 years, 80lbs. of LBM, significant increase in all indicators of athletic performance, NO AAS, and one hell of a ride. “Above-average genetics” be damned.[/quote]

Agreed, you are right. My frustration in regards to this topic comes more from the examples of the same thing we see in life, business, career, making money, etc. All you hear are excuses, if I only had this, or only had that handed to me, it’d be rich and successful too. But those people are not willing to put in the effort and take the risks needed to be successful, even though the same opportunities are there for most people.
People want things handed to them. It’s the same in athletics/lifting, people want results in weeks, and want a supplement to do all the work.

I once had a guy in an office I worked in tell me he just doesn’t have the genetics to be big or strong (he was a former fatboy who had lost about 100 pounds - I’ll give him that). He said he’s been lifting for 6 months, and he hasn’t seen much difference. I didn’t have the patience to ask him about his program, no one listens anyway.

16

Those numbers are nothing for your average high school gym. Haven’t you read any posts here? Everyone has a 1000lb total in highschool.

17

[quote]T Affliction G wrote:
Unmatched determination, a willingness to sacrifice, and insatiable desire for knowledge? Definitely. Which is in shorter supply around these parts? [/quote]

Great attitude, all the best. Another beast, good stuff.

18

uhm believe it or not genetics DOES paly a role… some poepl just respond quicker to traning than others. Some people have a higher proportion of fast twitch fibres and thus have more strenght/power potential than others… its a fact dude.

19

nice original post. I concur wholeheartedly. Since there were no forums here when I started reading, I did all my footwork myself, reading articles, roundtables, q/a, other sites. I did most of my own planning. And I don’t regret a minute of it.

Get the balls, get 'er done. I still end up reading articles about 14 hours a week. Guess what? I have more training ideas than I know what to do with. I just pick one and experiment. If it doesn’t work, figure out why, cross it off, and move on.

I miss Patricia, KO, Goldberg, and all the other strongman/PL that left this site years ago. They really brought the conversation to a new level. Thankfully Jack Reape, Brad Cardoza (somewhere), and Jackass are still here, as well as a few others.

I still love this place, but I really wish some people would just cowboy the f*@k up and quit wasting time. Of course, I still try to help because I’m a sappy idealist, and because I owe my help to others because of what the vets here years back gave me. Besides, I still need questions of my own answered. :slight_smile:

20

[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
uhm believe it or not genetics DOES paly a role… some poepl just respond quicker to traning than others. Some people have a higher proportion of fast twitch fibres and thus have more strenght/power potential than others… its a fact dude.[/quote]

Self-fulfilling prophecy…

Seriously, okay fine. That’s true. Some do. And this topic has been beaten to death. I’m not going to re-quote what you all already should know. But, I really don’t think this seriously hampers anyone until they start flirting with upper-echelon or even elite levels of the explosive sports.

Obviously not everyone is hardwired to be an Olympic sprinter. Everyone CAN, however, achieve LBM weight gain, 3/4/5 club lifts, marked increase in athletic determiners, and/or desired bodyfat levels in a few years. Fairly easily.