Shut-Up About Your Abs!

Training Bodybuilding
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My first bulk I pushed my body from 165 pounds, after I lost an extreme amount of weight because i was a fatass, to a whopping 208. I was fat, and felt pretty shitty because I had lost most of my cardio endurance but wholy fuck was I strong and getting comments left and right.

I cut down this past summer to 184 and am now back on a bulk to hopefully 220 so I can get to my goal lean weight of 205. Once I get to my lean weight Of 205 I’ll continue to push my weight as far as I can go, but wouldn’t mind settling at a ripped 215 at 5’10"

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[quote]roybot wrote:
Not to mention the fact that the supplement companies and magazine publishers rely on people being kept in the dark about how the pros eat and train in the off season.

You’d be very unlikely to find magazines regularly publishing features and photos on bulking, because profit is always going to be the primary concern. [/quote]

And the fact that those guys who are 280 and ripped aren’t exactly taking the supplements that are shown in those magazines. I fell for those tricks way too much when I first started getting serious a couple years back. Man did I waste alot of money on shitty supplements because I thought they would help me get to where the pros were.

143

Epic. Love it, love it. So true.

144

This thread is dead on the money.

I admit it took me a while to see the “bigger picture.” I once bought into the whole squeaky clean bulk and keep your abs idea but there is a reason for all that.

The freakin’ contradictory articles all over the damn place. Why would somebody want to just fucking eat and lift and gain a little fat but get strong when they could “clean bulk” and gain only pure LBM and keep their abs? The articles say it’s possible. Now that I am a little wiser bout this stuff, I think that it is unlikely and possibly counter productive.

Very good thread and speaks the truth.

Magazines won’t have anything to write about if they tell the truth:

Eat enough food to gain weight and get stronger.

Sounds simple? Only because you have already seen it work. These kids just starting who are looking for the right way to getting big sometimes take the wrong path. It’s understandable with all the BS out there.

145

[quote]Poetikaal wrote:
it really is a terrible conspiracy.

i mean, im sure there are people who respond to building muscle while staying lean…somewhere…in a book.

but it really doesnt make too much physiological-sense[/quote]

That’s right. It doesn’t make any physiological sense. The person that values abs above all else will not be able gain as much muscle during a certain time frame as the individual that embarks on a bulk (I suppose a bulk can be described as a kind of ‘muscle incubation’).

If you see someone with appreciable muscle mass who claims to have done it through clean eating alone, you will inevitably find they have bulked for considerable periods to build that muscle prior to ‘eating clean’.

The ‘lean’ trainee will also argue that the bulker is somehow trying to say that a bulk enables them to gain muscle at a faster rate than their natural limits would allow. Of course, bulking won’t allow you to defy your body’s biological limits, but it does allow you to push closer to those limits than a diet of chicken and broccoli.

If people can’t understand that, how on earth do they expect to convince us that they can hit their genetic limits while remaining as lean (or leaner) than the day they started?

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[quote]roybot wrote:

If you see someone with appreciable muscle mass who claims to have done it through clean eating alone, you will inevitably find they have bulking for considerable periods to build that muscle prior to ‘eating clean’.

The lean trainee will also argue that the bulker is somehow trying to say that a bulk enables them to gain muscle at a faster rate than their natural limits would allow. Of course, bulking won’t allow you to defy your body’s biological limits, but it does allow you to push closer to those limits than a diet of chicken and broccoli.

[/quote]

Don’t forget that they actually think that because they see a guy who is carrying a lot of muscle who isn’t extremely lean that this means he CAN’T diet down or that he will NEVER diet down.

Shugart loves to pull that one on a regular basis. Without knowing the end goal of the individual, acting like they never plan to diet down simply because you have seen them heavier is retarded. Some of us have goals that some might consider extreme. If that is the case, it would make little sense for the guy trying to gain another 30lbs to be that worried about trying to get under 10% body fat. If it would hinder further progress, why do it?

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Ha ha - so true. I love that shit - as if I’m going to never diet down - or I haven’t in the past. Too funny.

That’s why this site is filled with dudes who are 150 lbs with abs, or skinny-fat douchebags who are 30 % BF at only 212 pounds - hilarious.

Yea - my BF is high right now, but at 280, I can diet down to a lean 230 and be happy. If you’re 212 at 25 % bf, you’ll be right back at 150 after you diet down…ouch. Not much progress for your efforts, eh?

Funny thing is, most retards do not have a practiced eye for real bodybuilding. They see a 160 lb guy at 8% and freak out about how huge and muscular he is, but look at a guy twice the size in full-house condition and mock him. It’s pathetic - most of these idiots can’t even tell the difference in my pics. The earlier shots where I’m on vacation I’m about 235, while the other ones I’m 50 lbs heavier at 285 - and yet they can’t seem to tell the difference.

It’s amazing - I for one can look at a guy who’s not ripped and see the amount of muscle he’s carrying, despite the layer of fat. I’m surprised that other dipshits can’t see that.

But I understand that these little guys who failed to achieve 200 lbs + even when using steroids, might be compelled to make fun of some pec fat, since they’re total pussies and failures as bodybuilders, they make themselves feel better using these tactics.

Am I saying conditioning isn’t important in BB? Of course not, but bottom-line is that you must spend YEARS building quality mass, so when some douche asks why you’re not dieting down after three months or so, you can laugh at them…

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I’m another one who “once upon a time” took the “look hawt” route and cut down to a super tiny self while sacrificing A LOT of strength…

At the end of that summer I was benching and realized I was weak as shit. Turned things about face and gained 35lbs in a short period of time (yeah i gained some fat, whatever) and focused on maintaining and getting as strong as I can.

Now I’m just over 200lbs, and feeling really good again. Going the slow route really helped me keep the some of the fat off this time around.

149

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Don’t forget that they actually think that because they see a guy who is carrying a lot of muscle who isn’t extremely lean that this means he CAN’T diet down or that he will NEVER diet down. [/quote]

Very true. They will look at the guy and assume that he is either lazy or undisciplined with his diet, because he isn’t in what they consider to be ‘prime condition’.

They will also assume that the guy had no choice in getting to that point in the first place. In that sense, it’s not really suprising that they think a bulked up guy can’t diet down.

It’s because they can’t or won’t entertain the possibility that someone would want to deliberately put themselves in a position where they might gain a little extra fat.

[quote]
Shugart loves to pull that one on a regular basis. Without knowing the end goal of the individual, acting like they never plan to diet down simply because you have seen them heavier is retarded. Some of us have goals that some might consider extreme.?[/quote]

I don’t think people that think like this ever want to consider that someone might have a different end goal to them. It is always assumed that people share their goals, and that goes back to what I said about imposing their limits on others.

That way they can throw out the same advice to everyone.

I’m glad that you brought up the extreme side of things, because the ‘lean brigade’ are usually dismissive of anybody that wants to get to an extreme level of muscularity.

Again, they don’t want to get too big, so you shouldn’t either.

[quote]
If that is the case, it would make little sense for the guy trying to gain another 30lbs to be that worried about trying to get under 10% body fat. If it would hinder further progress, why do it?[/quote]

Sure. You’d never see a sprinter decide to cut back on the training because they were in danger developing too much speed.

The same logic should apply to bodybuilding, but there are still a lot of people that think it is a good thing to impose limits on themselves, then extend those limits to others as well. Its not suprising they don’t succeed.

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[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Ha ha - so true. I love that shit - as if I’m going to never diet down - or I haven’t in the past. Too funny.

That’s why this site is filled with dudes who are 150 lbs with abs, or skinny-fat douchebags who are 30 % BF at only 212 pounds - hilarious.

Yea - my BF is high right now, but at 280, I can diet down to a lean 230 and be happy. If you’re 212 at 25 % bf, you’ll be right back at 150 after you diet down…ouch. Not much progress for your efforts, eh?

Funny thing is, most retards do not have a practiced eye for real bodybuilding. They see a 160 lb guy at 8% and freak out about how huge and muscular he is, but look at a guy twice the size in full-house condition and mock him. It’s pathetic… [/quote]

I guess I will forever be lost on that one because I never looked at some guy with 20" arms and assumed they had no discipline just because they weren’t near contest shape. I also had no trouble seeing big muscles even if they were covered by some body fat.

I could see if these guys were really getting big acting like that…but they aren’t and never have.

If you can gain that much muscle and never get above 10% body fat, GREAT. That would put you among the genetic elite the likes of some of the top pro bodybuilders in history.

It is funny though that EVERYONE thinks they are a “hardgainer” yet they also they think they have genetics so above average that they can gain large amounts of muscle optimally while staying that lean.

151

Seems like everyone here is on the same page as far as bulking being misunderstood by . . . pretty much everyone! I think there are some Shugarts in the world who can’t be expected to change their mind ever and those who DO mean well but are misinformed and caught up in the insanity.

And it’s nice to agree about all this amongst us, but I was trying to figure out a way that this same mentality can be conveyed to that latter group I just mentioned.

Someone said earlier about showing before contest pics but, then again, 99.9% people have not seen any of these guys in person and it’s very easy to discount pics when there is no one around them to demonstrate what it ACTUALLY looks like. Bodybuilding is so uncommon that it’s hard to get an in-person perspective for these physiques.

Any thoughts on what could be done? Nothing since those who are meant to find this do find it? Something in hopes of changing how the media perceives it (in the long run)? I don’t know.

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[quote]IronDude17 wrote:
Seems like everyone here is on the same page as far as bulking being misunderstood by . . . pretty much everyone! I think there are some Shugarts in the world who can’t be expected to change their mind ever and those who DO mean well but are misinformed and caught up in the insanity.

And it’s nice to agree about all this amongst us, but I was trying to figure out a way that this same mentality can be conveyed to that latter group I just mentioned.

Someone said earlier about showing before contest pics but, then again, 99.9% people have not seen any of these guys in person and it’s very easy to discount pics when there is no one around them to demonstrate what it ACTUALLY looks like. Bodybuilding is so uncommon that it’s hard to get an in-person perspective for these physiques.

Any thoughts on what could be done? Nothing since those who are meant to find this do find it? Something in hopes of changing how the media perceives it (in the long run)? I don’t know.[/quote]

Bodybuilding is not for everyone. MOST people can’t do this. It takes something extra for someone to push their body to that type of extreme and keep doing it daily for years on end.

Yes, I do think it is necessary to train around people who are that strong and that big. It is the only way to break through mental hurdles to even reach near that level. If these people refuse to find others like this, that is on them. I made the effort. I looked for gyms where I was NOT the biggest person there.

The sooner we get rid of these half assers who hold everyone else back, the better the message will be disseminated.

I wouldn’t dare waste my time in the gym trying to give advice to someone who didn’t appear to have a level of determination that most don’t have. The same rules should apply here.

If someone is not willing to pay their dues at all, they should be ignored and left behind.

153

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bodybuilding is not for everyone. MOST people can’t do this. It takes something extra for someone to push their body to that type of extreme and keep doing it daily for years on end.

Yes, I do think it is necessary to train around people who are that strong and that big. It is the only way to break through mental hurdles to even reach near that level. If these people refuse to find others like this, that is on them. I made the effort. I looked for gyms where I was NOT the biggest person there.

The sooner we get rid of these half assers who hold everyone else back, the better the message will be disseminated.

I wouldn’t dare waste my time in the gym trying to give advice to someone who didn’t appear to have a level of determination that most don’t have. The same rules should apply here.

If someone is not willing to pay their dues at all, they should be ignored and left behind.[/quote]

Interesting what you say about not wanting to be the biggest guy in the gym. I remember friends asking me last year why I don’t train in the campus gym (since its free) when I left for a Gold’s because I was tired of being a big fish in a small pond. The cost of the student rate at Gold’s was worth the environment to me and being able to look up to others.

And true, the message may be more clear if the “spokespeople” across commercial gyms were easily identifiable and in a more concentrated form. Hell, people who have made results from this site should be able to have no problem distinguishing between the real bodybuilder wannabe’s and the posers since I think it comes down to one’s mentality.

But, there’s just so many of the posers compounded by the issue that the untrained eye doesn’t seem to see someone as not having the right mindset or potential when initially spotting them. I guess it’s somehow needing to turn the untrained eye into a trained eye without being trained in the first place. Nice to think that would be possible but for that there would need to be A LOT of open-mindedness . . . .

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[quote]IronDude17 wrote:

Interesting what you say about not wanting to be the biggest guy in the gym. I remember friends asking me last year why I don’t train in the campus gym (since its free) when I left for a Gold’s because I was tired of being a big fish in a small pond. The cost of the student rate at Gold’s was worth the environment to me and being able to look up to others.

[/quote]

When I was in the military, I avoided the gym on base because it was FILLED with people who never gained much muscle mass. You had a few well built people, but even most of them trained elsewhere. When you look around you and all you see are people less developed than you are and weaker, you will be inclined to decrease the effort to reach a higher level yourself.

There was a time when people didn’t think a muscular 21" arm was even possible…because no one had ever done it before. Leroy Colbert is credited as the first bodybuilder to get his arms to a muscular 21". Everyone before that (before the 1950’s) thought it couldn’t be done.

It isn’t that it couldn’t have been done before that. It is that since it hadn’t been SEEN, people avoided believing it was even possible…and thusly restricted their own progress subconsciously.

The same happens if you never look for people MUCH stronger and bigger than you are to train around.

I ENJOY seeing people who make me look like I just started lifting. There is no better motivation.

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Leroy Colbert

156

Thanks for the wakeup call Professor X and the rest of you. I, being a FFB, then manorexic, have been scared to put on extra weight. However, it seems retarded to look like I dont even go to the gym when I have been there religously for the past year and a half. Granted thats nothing compared to you older gentlemen, but now I know its my time to get big. Eat big, lift big, eat big. I am sick of looking weak, feeling weak and…being weak.

It changes now. Time to house.

Thanks again gentlemen. Great read.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
It isn’t that it couldn’t have been done before that. It is that since it hadn’t been SEEN, people avoided believing it was even possible…and thusly restricted their own progress subconsciously.[/quote]

I think this is the problem. Why would people believe in becoming huge since none of these naysayers sees the damn process. You’re considered lucky to see a competitor in contest shape walking around and even luckier to see them in off-season where you can see firsthand they do not advocate eating at BK every 2 seconds. What’s the chance someone who has a self-limiting mindset sees either? But then again, what’s the chance they ever will?

Then again, even if someone DOES see a person in either form, it’s so damn foreign looking it’s hard to relate to that I guess. Too little exposure/existence of bodybuilders for anyone to really take notice I guess.

Also, this seems like a great time to plug MD’s Hardcore Gym Registry. Self-explanatory so check it out everyone!

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[quote]theenforcer1 wrote:
Thanks for the wakeup call Professor X and the rest of you. I, being a FFB, then manorexic, have been scared to put on extra weight. However, it seems retarded to look like I dont even go to the gym when I have been there religously for the past year and a half. Granted thats nothing compared to you older gentlemen, but now I know its my time to get big. Eat big, lift big, eat big. I am sick of looking weak, feeling weak and…being weak.

It changes now. Time to house.

Thanks again gentlemen. Great read.[/quote]

It seems that a lot of ‘FFBs’ are terrified of bulking after a period of weight loss. It’s only natural to be afraid of gaining the weight back, but then you’ve also got to consider that people get out of shape because they don’t exercise and their eating habits spiral out of control. There is no discipline involved.

By getting into the habit of eating well and exercising frequently, you are unlikely to fall back into your old habits, because you have a level of control that you didn’t have before.

Lying on the sofa and eating candy is not the same as eating sensibly and training regularly with the intention of building muscle, even when you’re eating an excess of calories.

Besides, you’re not even going to be eating the same foods (at least you shouldn’t be :)). It just seems that panic sometimes clouds people’s judgement.

This is a topic that should given more focus. It seems that FFBs are generally discouraged from bulking after dieting.

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Please stop using that God awful term - “FFB”. Thank you in advance.

Shugart sure LOVES to put labels, and limitations, on people.

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Well I don’t normally use that term. I was using it to give my point some perspective. The point is that when someone is ‘diagnosed’ as a ‘FFB’, they are also discouraged from ever attempting to bulk (at least as most would suggest bulking).

I wasn’t advocating the use of labels. Quite the opposite, in fact.