Shut-Up About Your Abs!

Training Bodybuilding
121

[quote]roybot wrote:
I think the reason that people get so hostile over bulking advice is that they see it as some kind of attempt to sabotage their progress.

The ‘bulkophobics’ usually think eating a calorie heavy, nutrient dense diet is somehow an instruction to become a fat repulsive blob. It all boils down to vanity, with no real view of the ‘bigger picture’.

How many times has someone on a bulk posted a photo, only to be shot down by a lynch mob of ab groupies? All that says to me is that they have no perspective on what the bulk guy is trying to do in the long term.

The whole point of a bulk photo is to show people the truth behind building the most muscle in the least amount of time. Sometimes it isn’t pretty, but it shows the truth of it. Unfortunately, truth is a bitter pill to swallow for some.

Surely they don’t think that he is planning to stay that way for the rest of his life?

Most people that think like this are actually missing the point: by bulking correctly, you will never be second guessing your body’s requirements for growth and recovery.

I can’t see how you can provide the body with all the resources it needs to build muscle at an optimal rate, while keeping body fat levels at a consistently low level.

You would have to know exactly what to eat, what amount, and when. Your diet would have to be dialled in to such a degree that it would be totally impractical to follow it. There would be absolutely no margin for error. It’s unrealistic for someone without a live -in chef and nutritionist. And yet, people still think it can be done.

Thing is, most people who believe it can be done are unlikely to be convinced otherwise.
After all, they’ve seen Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds do it, so why can’t they?[/quote]

This was a good post and basically what I have been trying to get across for a while.

The question is, why is it so hard for them to see the bigger picture? Anyone who is really in this for the long haul has GOT to understand this involves a lifestyle change and a shit ton of hard work.

If they can’t deal with that, how do they think they are about to scientifically graph out and follow daily a diet so perfect that they will never gain an ounce of fat in 10 years?

Unless you have genetics like Michael Lockett, don’t expect to gain 50+lbs of solid muscle without EVER gaining any extra body fat.

122

[quote]roybot wrote:
blaque.ops wrote:
Isn’t there some kind of middle ground here? Where is the love?

I’m not sure that there is a ‘middle ground’ to speak of, because most people that advocate bulking are referring to a properly executed bulk.
If a person embarks on a bulk, common sense would dictate that they have a clear plan of attack before they begin.

This obviously requires a good knowledge of nutrition, and
and the ability to know how much weight gain is acceptable over a given period.

The only people thinking in extremes are the people against bulking. Notice how the most vocal individuals are usually the ones to assume that bulking equals becoming a moutainous sack of lard.

I have never read anybody suggesting that someone should go all ‘cookie monster’ and bulk to the point of obesity and beyond. Yet people still assume that is what is meant by a bulk. All that says to me is that they don’t know how to conduct a proper bulk.

[/quote]

…AND that they can’t comprehend what is written. No one is walking up to me calling me fat even at my heaviest body weight. My goal has NEVER been to become obese…yet people like “98v” still jump into threads and claim this is what I’ve written.

I am beginning to think people just aren’t that bright.

123

[quote]Professor X wrote:
roybot wrote:
blaque.ops wrote:
Isn’t there some kind of middle ground here? Where is the love?

I’m not sure that there is a ‘middle ground’ to speak of, because most people that advocate bulking are referring to a properly executed bulk.
If a person embarks on a bulk, common sense would dictate that they have a clear plan of attack before they begin.

This obviously requires a good knowledge of nutrition, and
and the ability to know how much weight gain is acceptable over a given period.

The only people thinking in extremes are the people against bulking. Notice how the most vocal individuals are usually the ones to assume that bulking equals becoming a moutainous sack of lard.

I have never read anybody suggesting that someone should go all ‘cookie monster’ and bulk to the point of obesity and beyond. Yet people still assume that is what is meant by a bulk. All that says to me is that they don’t know how to conduct a proper bulk.

…AND that they can’t comprehend what is written. No one is walking up to me calling me fat even at my heaviest body weight. My goal has NEVER been to become obese…yet people like “98v” still jump into threads and claim this is what I’ve written.

I am beginning to think people just aren’t that bright.[/quote]

Stop lying, you’ve thought that for at least a year.

124

This looks like a good time to shamelessly plug my Dr. Seuss piece:

[quote]
Dr. Seuss writes:

Instead of starting another thread,
Listen up it’s all been said.

Having trouble gaining mass?
You need more food you stupid ass.

And if you start to get too fat,
A little less, how hard is that?

But it won’t matter what we say,
You’ll starve yourself anyway.

So after years of being small,
but still convinced you know it all,

Please come back, don’t be late,
And argue some more, we cannot wait.[/quote]

125

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This looks like a good time to shamelessly plug my Dr. Seuss piece:

Dr. Seuss writes:

Instead of starting another thread,
Listen up it’s all been said.

Having trouble gaining mass?
You need more food you stupid ass.

And if you start to get too fat,
A little less, how hard is that?

But it won’t matter what we say,
You’ll starve yourself anyway.

So after years of being small,
but still convinced you know it all,

Please come back, don’t be late,
And argue some more, we cannot wait.[/quote]

lol

126

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This looks like a good time to shamelessly plug my Dr. Seuss piece:

Dr. Seuss writes:

Instead of starting another thread,
Listen up it’s all been said.

Having trouble gaining mass?
You need more food you stupid ass.

And if you start to get too fat,
A little less, how hard is that?

But it won’t matter what we say,
You’ll starve yourself anyway.

So after years of being small,
but still convinced you know it all,

Please come back, don’t be late,
And argue some more, we cannot wait.[/quote]

:slight_smile:

That’s one of the funniest and insightful post I’ve ever read on a bodybuilding forum.

Congratulations!

You should consider replying to all threads in this fashion!

127

It’s times like this I wonder. I shit farted about for the past 2 years following the “look good naked” philosophy and I am still the same weight albeit a little leaner with more muscle mass but not much to show for the time past. I kept chopping and changing my diet and never focused on a clear goal for a prolonged period of time.

Although I did learn one thing recently. I can choke down a shit tonne of clean kcal and not gain a lot of fat, if any, what makes you turn into a fat blob of crap is sugary, nutritionally worthless shit. Lets just hope the next 2 years bring more results.

128

[quote]Professor X wrote:
roybot wrote:
blaque.ops wrote:
Isn’t there some kind of middle ground here? Where is the love?

I’m not sure that there is a ‘middle ground’ to speak of, because most people that advocate bulking are referring to a properly executed bulk.
If a person embarks on a bulk, common sense would dictate that they have a clear plan of attack before they begin.

This obviously requires a good knowledge of nutrition, and
and the ability to know how much weight gain is acceptable over a given period.

The only people thinking in extremes are the people against bulking. Notice how the most vocal individuals are usually the ones to assume that bulking equals becoming a moutainous sack of lard.

I have never read anybody suggesting that someone should go all ‘cookie monster’ and bulk to the point of obesity and beyond. Yet people still assume that is what is meant by a bulk. All that says to me is that they don’t know how to conduct a proper bulk.

…AND that they can’t comprehend what is written. No one is walking up to me calling me fat even at my heaviest body weight. My goal has NEVER been to become obese…yet people like “98v” still jump into threads and claim this is what I’ve written.

I am beginning to think people just aren’t that bright.[/quote]

I agree that there are people out there that just don’t understand training info, even when it is laid out in apparently simple terms.

Sometimes it might be because they genuinely don’t get what they are being told, but then you’re just as likely to encounter people that seem to want to make life as difficult as possible for themselves: these are the the ones that jump on the most technical program they can find, and then start to ‘modify’ it using the wealth of knowledge they’ve gained from three weeks of ‘hardcore’ training.

You’re not gonna be able to convince these people of anything either, because they insist on trying to reinvent the wheel, only to end up with a triangle.

On the other hand, you’re also dealing with the growing number of individuals that have some sort of god complex (incidentally, the majority of these are the ones that scoff at bulking. Coincidence? I don’t think so).

They aren’t going to be listening to anybody, because they want to be the ones doling out advice and being the focus of attention. They will refute you at every given turn purely because they can, and it is a great opportunity for them to show how ‘well-read’ they are.

The best bit is that they take it upon themselves to mentor any new trainee and try to steer them away from bulking. It’s ridiculous really: they advocate ‘lean bulking’(a contradiction in itself) as the one true way of doing things.

It has been said many times that most ‘lean bulkers’ will rarely, if ever, exceed a weight of 200 lbs, and yet by encouraging newbies to follow their lead, they are essentially imposing the limits they have set for themselves on the people they are trying to convince.

It is potentially very damaging. The newbie may well have wanted to get as big as they can, using the fastest means possible, but might very likely have ended up spinning their wheels, making miminal gains on a clean diet. They would have wasted years because they took advice from the wrong person due to not knowing any better at the time.

Too many people seem to give advice for the sake of it. It probably gives them a sense of power to have someone following what they say. There are too many armchair experts throwing out bad advice and misinformation to further their own reputations and to try and recruit their own little cult of followers.

Advice should always be given for the benefit of the person receiving it. Many self-proclaimed authorities are just doing it to flex their own egos.

Unfortunately, they also seem to be the most credible to the new trainee because they tell them what they want to hear: " hey, you can get huge and stay ripped. Don’t let that big guy tell you any different. He may be twice my size, but he’s fat. Look at his gut compared to my ripped abs - I must be the better person".

I don’t object to people wanting to keep their abs, but I definitely have a problem with the people that say every bodybuilder should be training that way - which is usually the case.

Apologies for the jumbo post…

129

I was just reading the latest issue of Muscular Development and I had another theory about this issue. One article was on Evan Centopani, and it’s no secret (at least to readers of MD) that his off-season weight can really get up there. Apparently it’s around 300lb right now, and he’s only 5’11.

Now, he’s said himself that personally, he doesn’t mind this and it may not be for others. But this made me realize that we’d probably see fewer individuals insisting on keeping their abs all year if the magazines had pics of the pros during their offseasons.

It’s one thing to maybe read that this particular pro has gained X amount of weight in the off season; it’s another to actually see it right there in front of you.

This particular article which discussed his off-season weight still had pics of Evan working out at Metro-flex with well under 10% BF.

Just my .02

130

[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
I was just reading the latest issue of Muscular Development and I had another theory about this issue.

One article was on Evan Centopani, and it’s no secret (at least to readers of MD) that his off-season weight can really get up there. Apparently it’s around 300lb right now, and he’s only 5’11.

Now, he’s said himself that personally, he doesn’t mind this and it may not be for others. But this made me realize that we’d probably see fewer individuals insisting on keeping their abs all year if the magazines had pics of the pros during their offseasons. It’s one thing to maybe read that this particular pro has gained X amount of weight in the off season; it’s another to actually see it right there in front of you.

This particular article which discussed his off-season weight still had pics of Evan working out at Metro-flex with well under 10% BF.

Just my .02[/quote]

I’m betting this would work exactly the opposite of the way you hope with people pointing and saying, “see… there’s no way I want to EVER look like that”.

131

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
I was just reading the latest issue of Muscular Development and I had another theory about this issue.

One article was on Evan Centopani, and it’s no secret (at least to readers of MD) that his off-season weight can really get up there. Apparently it’s around 300lb right now, and he’s only 5’11.

Now, he’s said himself that personally, he doesn’t mind this and it may not be for others. But this made me realize that we’d probably see fewer individuals insisting on keeping their abs all year if the magazines had pics of the pros during their offseasons.

It’s one thing to maybe read that this particular pro has gained X amount of weight in the off season; it’s another to actually see it right there in front of you.

This particular article which discussed his off-season weight still had pics of Evan working out at Metro-flex with well under 10% BF.

Just my .02

I’m betting this would work exactly the opposite of the way you hope with people pointing and saying, “see… there’s no way I want to EVER look like that”.[/quote]

That would actually make even less sense, because those same people already know how much muscle mass these pros have, and have seen them in contest shape.

To me, and obviously this is all hypothetical because the mags will never do this, I think it would be easier for people to understand the point of this thread if they could actually see (as opposed to just reading what someone in the BBing community is trying to get across) what the pros look like in the off season.

132

[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
I was just reading the latest issue of Muscular Development and I had another theory about this issue.

One article was on Evan Centopani, and it’s no secret (at least to readers of MD) that his off-season weight can really get up there. Apparently it’s around 300lb right now, and he’s only 5’11.

Now, he’s said himself that personally, he doesn’t mind this and it may not be for others. But this made me realize that we’d probably see fewer individuals insisting on keeping their abs all year if the magazines had pics of the pros during their offseasons.

It’s one thing to maybe read that this particular pro has gained X amount of weight in the off season; it’s another to actually see it right there in front of you.

This particular article which discussed his off-season weight still had pics of Evan working out at Metro-flex with well under 10% BF.

Just my .02

I’m betting this would work exactly the opposite of the way you hope with people pointing and saying, “see… there’s no way I want to EVER look like that”.

That would actually make even less sense, because those same people already know how much muscle mass these pros have, and have seen them in contest shape.

To me, and obviously this is all hypothetical because the mags will never do this, I think it would be easier for people to understand the point of this thread if they could actually see (as opposed to just reading what someone in the BBing community is trying to get across) what the pros look like in the off season.

[/quote]

You are very optimistic.

You can show most of these guys the same person in the off season and then show them dieted down and the average newbie will IGNORE the before picture as if that person would have gotten that big without ever getting heavier.

They do it all of the time.

Most pros have avoided showing pics when they are most out of shape because of the way people treat the info. This is why you RARELY hear pros discuss how they ACTUALLY eat especially after a contest.

133

Not to mention the fact that the supplement companies and magazine publishers rely on people being kept in the dark about how the pros eat and train in the off season.

You’d be very unlikely to find magazines regularly publishing features and photos on bulking, because profit is always going to be the primary concern.

134

its posts like this that keep me motivated

as a child, i was overfed by my grandmother, who never had food as a child. she believed i was in a persistent state of starvation. haha.

consequently i was an overweight child, turned into an overweight adolescent.

around that time, i developed some bulimic tendencies. im 21. for the past 8 years i have had periods of serious bulimia, and periods of intermittent purging. in the past two years, i have made such progress that I cant remember the last time i purged.

along with that was some body dysmorphia that is so difficult to shake. its scary to think that all this time i may have been impeding my own progress in the gym because of this fear to get too fat

anyway, i have only been training hard for a year or two. i had a year of hard training, but it was followed by a year of depressive shit and substance abuse.

i feel finally to be in a deep groove, one I dont intend to leave. im training hard, and maybe for once i am eating enough to help me grow

its posts like this that help me keep my shit together.

thanks for helping me forget the abercrombie abs for a minute. its a huge fear that i deal with, getting fat, but these ideas help me stay focused.

like, seriously. thank you.

135

[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
read this again, went downstairs and ate a 1900 calorie snack. good stuff.[/quote]

haha yeah…
(stops reading and goes and eats his brains out…)

136

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
I was just reading the latest issue of Muscular Development and I had another theory about this issue.

One article was on Evan Centopani, and it’s no secret (at least to readers of MD) that his off-season weight can really get up there. Apparently it’s around 300lb right now, and he’s only 5’11.

Now, he’s said himself that personally, he doesn’t mind this and it may not be for others. But this made me realize that we’d probably see fewer individuals insisting on keeping their abs all year if the magazines had pics of the pros during their offseasons.

It’s one thing to maybe read that this particular pro has gained X amount of weight in the off season; it’s another to actually see it right there in front of you.

This particular article which discussed his off-season weight still had pics of Evan working out at Metro-flex with well under 10% BF.

Just my .02

I’m betting this would work exactly the opposite of the way you hope with people pointing and saying, “see… there’s no way I want to EVER look like that”.[/quote]

Tiribulus,

I think that what you said is right on the money. If the bodybuilding mags started to run in-depth features on off season training and nutrition (including photos), it would certainly turn a lot of people off bodybuilding.

That being said, if they are so paranoid about how they look to others that they are put off by a bulked up physique, then they are probably exactly the type of people that are doomed to fail anyway.

Maybe it would be for the best if it did happen…

137

[quote]roybot wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
I was just reading the latest issue of Muscular Development and I had another theory about this issue.

One article was on Evan Centopani, and it’s no secret (at least to readers of MD) that his off-season weight can really get up there. Apparently it’s around 300lb right now, and he’s only 5’11.

Now, he’s said himself that personally, he doesn’t mind this and it may not be for others. But this made me realize that we’d probably see fewer individuals insisting on keeping their abs all year if the magazines had pics of the pros during their offseasons.

It’s one thing to maybe read that this particular pro has gained X amount of weight in the off season; it’s another to actually see it right there in front of you.

This particular article which discussed his off-season weight still had pics of Evan working out at Metro-flex with well under 10% BF.

Just my .02

I’m betting this would work exactly the opposite of the way you hope with people pointing and saying, “see… there’s no way I want to EVER look like that”.

Tiribulus,

I think that what you said is right on the money. If the bodybuilding mags started to run in-depth features on off season training and nutrition (including photos), it would certainly turn a lot of people off bodybuilding.

That being said, if they are so paranoid about how they look to others that they are put off by a bulked up physique, then they are probably exactly the type of people that are doomed to fail anyway.

Maybe it would be for the best if it did happen…

[/quote]

Well, it worked with showing bad pictures of celebrities, now everyone’s out of shape and fat. No reason it wouldn’t go the other way around. Nah, just kidding, people are way too lazy. You’re doomed to have a better body than the general population. Get over it.

138

Get over what? The magazines present a whitewashed view of bodybuilding in order to sell magazines and supplements.

It seems that people actually believe that the bodybuilding fairy is going to come along, wave her magic wand and instantly add slabs of muscle to their frames with none of the unsightly fat gain.

Here’s the problem: the magazines perpetuate an image for commercial reasons, but the people that believe that crap will then come on to the forums and start arguing that we are doing it wrong.

It’s pretty hard to ‘get over’ something when a lot of the arguments on bodybuilding forums are caused by people that put far too much stock in what the magazines say. It is almost as if they believe that paying for information somehow makes it more credible.

139

it really is a terrible conspiracy.

i mean, im sure there are people who respond to building muscle while staying lean…somewhere…in a book.

but it really doesnt make too much physiological-sense

140

[quote]InnerVoice wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
This looks like a good time to shamelessly plug my Dr. Seuss piece:

Dr. Seuss writes:

Instead of starting another thread,
Listen up it’s all been said.

Having trouble gaining mass?
You need more food you stupid ass.

And if you start to get too fat,
A little less, how hard is that?

But it won’t matter what we say,
You’ll starve yourself anyway.

So after years of being small,
but still convinced you know it all,

Please come back, don’t be late,
And argue some more, we cannot wait.

:slight_smile:

That’s one of the funniest and insightful post I’ve ever read on a bodybuilding forum.

Congratulations!

You should consider replying to all threads in this fashion!

[/quote]

agreed, someone post this in the beginner’s sticky’s.

I’m serious.