Shut-Up About Your Abs!

Training Bodybuilding
101

[quote]Psicks wrote:
So is there like a formula for this sort of weight gain anyway?

Like say you want to weigh 200lbs at 10% BF how much would you want to weight before you start dieting down? 230?[/quote]

No, there is no formula and frankly, the mentality that causes you to think you even need a formula is part of the problem.

How could someone else know exactly how much extra weight YOU would need to carry in order to gain the most muscle possible?

Serious question…do you even work out right now?

102

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Psicks wrote:
So is there like a formula for this sort of weight gain anyway?

Like say you want to weigh 200lbs at 10% BF how much would you want to weight before you start dieting down? 230?

No, there is no formula and frankly, the mentality that causes you to think you even need a formula is part of the problem.

How could someone else know exactly how much extra weight YOU would need to carry in order to gain the most muscle possible?

Serious question…do you even work out right now?[/quote]

If there were a a % like that, one of those 800lbs morbidly obese people would be able to diet down to at least a good 600 pounds ripped.

The question becomes even more absurd when you through in what weigh/fat % do I need to be to look like such and such. Then add in, what equation do I need to plug in for my food and training?

Bulk until you have as much muscle as you think you want then drop the fat, repeat as desired.

So simple you could print in as directions for a shampoo bottle.

103

Wow I just noticed this thread; boy was it convenient reading after I posted the bulking and cholesterol thread.

NICE!!

104

Here’s one serious question, not trolling: what about colon cancer and other physical effects? My own bulking experience is minor league compared to a lot of you guys, going from 170 as a high school senior to 210 two-three years later, bodyfat a little higher. But I remember how much I had to eat to get there.

Those of you guys who are putting on eighty to a hundred pounds of mostly lean mass, and eating absurd amounts, especially protein, you ever worry about what it does to your body? Not trying to rain on anyone’s parade, much respect to those guys who have gotten themselves legitimately big from small beginnings.

I guess like the guy said in Sam Fussell’s “Muscle”, “it ain’t about health.”

105

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Here’s one serious question, not trolling: what about colon cancer and other physical effects? My own bulking experience is minor league compared to a lot of you guys, going from 170 as a high school senior to 210 two-three years later, bodyfat a little higher. But I remember how much I had to eat to get there.

Those of you guys who are putting on eighty to a hundred pounds of mostly lean mass, and eating absurd amounts, especially protein, you ever worry about what it does to your body?

Not trying to rain on anyone’s parade, much respect to those guys who have gotten themselves legitimately big from small beginnings. I guess like the guy said in Sam Fussell’s “Muscle”, “it ain’t about health.”[/quote]

When have you seen some direct correlation between gaining muscular body weight and the onset of colon cancer?

The tendency for people to already believe gaining muscle is “bad” is generally what causes them to look for any and every negative to support what they already want to believe.

If obese people who used to be skinny aren’t getting colon cancer at ever growing rates, why would think the guy gaining muscle would see this?

I think I have probably gained more overall weight from beginner status (over the age of 18) than just about anyone else on this board and that is not a concern.

For one, you have never seen me recommend some ridiculous amount of protein to anyone and it took me several years to gain the weight. This was not some over night affair where I woke up 100lbs heavier one night.

Eat fiber. Learn how to NOT eat like an idiot. Don’t be so overly restrictive that there are giant deficiencies in your diet.

Honestly, I would be more worried about these guys eating NOTHING but protein shakes just to lose weight getting some sort of disorders than the guy who eats a balance of damn near everything to gain the most size possible.

106

You can eat clean and still eat a lot. There are a lot of calorie dense highly nutritional things out there.

I think the saturated fat thing is completely screwed up. My doctor told me to eat as little sat. fat as possible and then proceeded to recommend foods high in it. EX: Nuts, olive oil, est.

I know personally that my weight does have some correlation to my LDL cholesterol levels, but it’s virtually the same as to my HDL levels. I’ve been on cholesterol medication, on prescription vitamin B, dieted down to 195ish, bulked up to 235ish, and the ratio always stays the same.

I now just eat clean (with the occasional cheat) and continue on my weightlifting pursuits.

107

[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
Tiznut wrote:
cyph31 wrote:
six pack abs are made by smart nutrition, not starving your body

i have better ab definition at a BW of 225 lbs 1.5 years later than i did at 185 lbs

The Abs are like any other muscle. If you aren’t working it you won’t develop it and it really doesn’t matter what your diet is like. I used to work my abs like mad in high school because coach had us doing a ton of crunches. i still ate like crap but because of all the work i put in on my abs they were still visible.

It wasn’t your ab work that made your abs visible.[/quote]

yeah it was. I’ve been in single digit bf as an adult but I don’t do ab work so my abs are not visible. Abs, much like any other muscle, needs to be worked in order to be developed in order to show when you are ‘lean’. There’s nothing magical about the abs that require low bodyfat and no stimulus to promote…

108

[quote]Tiznut wrote:
MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
Tiznut wrote:
cyph31 wrote:
six pack abs are made by smart nutrition, not starving your body

i have better ab definition at a BW of 225 lbs 1.5 years later than i did at 185 lbs

The Abs are like any other muscle. If you aren’t working it you won’t develop it and it really doesn’t matter what your diet is like. I used to work my abs like mad in high school because coach had us doing a ton of crunches. i still ate like crap but because of all the work i put in on my abs they were still visible.

It wasn’t your ab work that made your abs visible.

yeah it was. I’ve been in single digit bf as an adult but I don’t do ab work so my abs are not visible. Abs, much like any other muscle, needs to be worked in order to be developed in order to show when you are ‘lean’. There’s nothing magical about the abs that require low bodyfat and no stimulus to promote…[/quote]

How do you know you were in single digit bf?

109

[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< No, there is no formula and frankly, the mentality that causes you to think you even need a formula is part of the problem. >>>[/quote]

This so true that that the English language is wholly lacking in the means to express it.

110

As someone who has never seen their abs(except obliques), I can’t say that they’re over rated. I don’t know. Having them would make a lot of insecurities go away(me being an FFB after all), but without good size and definition in other muscle groups, it seems pretty meaningless.

111

[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
As someone who has never seen their abs(except obliques), I can’t say that they’re over rated. I don’t know. Having them would make a lot of insecurities go away(me being an FFB after all), but without good size and definition in other muscle groups, it seems pretty meaningless. [/quote]

Who wouldn’t like to have nice abs? I can’t recall ever reading a post by anybody saying that abs are a superfluous muscle group that it’s a waste to give any work or attention to.

It’s this wholesale idolatry by which people will spend the whole of their prime years pursuing that one piece of their anatomy at the expense of all else and the paralyzing fear that they may obscure them that is so boneheaded.

I’m not sure when this happened, but I wish it would unhappen. It’s creepy.

112

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
abcd1234 wrote:
As someone who has never seen their abs(except obliques), I can’t say that they’re over rated. I don’t know. Having them would make a lot of insecurities go away(me being an FFB after all), but without good size and definition in other muscle groups, it seems pretty meaningless.

Who wouldn’t like to have nice abs? I can’t recall ever reading a post by anybody saying that abs are a superfluous muscle group that it’s a waste to give any work or attention to.

It’s this wholesale idolatry by which people will spend the whole of their prime years pursuing that one piece of their anatomy at the expense of all else and the paralyzing fear that they may obscure them that is so boneheaded.

I’m not sure when this happened, but I wish it would unhappen. It’s creepy.[/quote]

True. Abs have attained a sort of mythical status to the average man(not the average T-Nation poster). It’s like a coveted feature that those who’ve always had it and those who attain it fear to lose.

My guess would be that many think that losing their abs puts them down a notch, into the “average” category. The fact that young women(under 25) often covet them as well in a mate does not help either.

113

I admit there were times when I first began training that I really had to choose to lose the abs and get big or keep the abs but stay small. I guess I at least knew that each was on two different paths, and that helped. Today tho, I say screw abs, I can get them later when I reach the weight range I want to be at. Honestly, I look at it this way:

On average maybe 5-8 girls a year will actually see me with my shirt off, in a situation where I am trying to be sexually appealing. But on an average day, I could pass a thousand people on and off campus. And I love “the look” you get from women and men, by being the biggest mofo in a room.

And I would much rather get that ego boost every single day, rather than the ego boost of knowing I have “sick abs” on the few first encounters with girls thru the year. You trying to impress girls, or are you trying to be a goddamn bodybuilder? That’s what it comes down to IMO

114

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

I think the saturated fat thing is completely screwed up. My doctor told me to eat as little sat. fat as possible and then proceeded to recommend foods high in it. EX: Nuts, olive oil, est.

[/quote]

Nuts and OO aren’t high in saturated fat - they’re high in unsaturated fat.

One serving of Olive Oil contains 14 grams of fat - of which only 2 grams are saturated.

115

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It’s this wholesale idolatry by which people will spend the whole of their prime years pursuing that one piece of their anatomy at the expense of all else and the paralyzing fear that they may obscure them that is so boneheaded.

I’m not sure when this happened, but I wish it would unhappen. It’s creepy.[/quote]

Quoted for truth.

The thing here is, that for some reason people almost consider it an attack against them when they are told that the best they can do to is to eat (lots) now and worry about abs at a later point when they will actually have some muscle to show after cutting up.

This is not an attack - it’s a wake up call. I know I had to hear it many times before I finally took it to heart and I will certainly do my best to prevent others from wasting time like I did.

Stop being so defensive. Loosing fat can be done at any point of life but the clock is ticking as far as adding muscle is concerned.

116

[quote]winkel wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
It’s this wholesale idolatry by which people will spend the whole of their prime years pursuing that one piece of their anatomy at the expense of all else and the paralyzing fear that they may obscure them that is so boneheaded.

I’m not sure when this happened, but I wish it would unhappen. It’s creepy.

Quoted for truth.

The thing here is, that for some reason people almost consider it an attack against them when they are told that the best they can do to is to eat (lots) now and worry about abs at a later point when they will actually have some muscle to show after cutting up.

[/quote]

I still don’t know what they are rebelling against. It isn’t like the guys telling them this are small and weak.

What makes someone listen to someone who has made less progress?

117

I think it is just plain fear of getting fat and not being able to get the abs back.

118

Isn’t there some kind of middle ground here? Where is the love?

119

I think the reason that people get so hostile over bulking advice is that they see it as some kind of attempt to sabotage their progress.

The ‘bulkophobics’ usually think eating a calorie heavy, nutrient dense diet is somehow an instruction to become a fat repulsive blob. It all boils down to vanity, with no real view of the ‘bigger picture’.

How many times has someone on a bulk posted a photo, only to be shot down by a lynch mob of ab groupies? All that says to me is that they have no perspective on what the bulk guy is trying to do in the long term.

The whole point of a bulk photo is to show people the truth behind building the most muscle in the least amount of time. Sometimes it isn’t pretty, but it shows the truth of it. Unfortunately, truth is a bitter pill to swallow for some.

Surely they don’t think that he is planning to stay that way for the rest of his life?

Most people that think like this are actually missing the point: by bulking correctly, you will never be second guessing your body’s requirements for growth and recovery.

I can’t see how you can provide the body with all the resources it needs to build muscle at an optimal rate, while keeping body fat levels at a consistently low level.

You would have to know exactly what to eat, what amount, and when. Your diet would have to be dialled in to such a degree that it would be totally impractical to follow it. There would be absolutely no margin for error. It’s unrealistic for someone without a live -in chef and nutritionist. And yet, people still think it can be done.

Thing is, most people who believe it can be done are unlikely to be convinced otherwise.
After all, they’ve seen Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds do it, so why can’t they?

120

[quote]blaque.ops wrote:
Isn’t there some kind of middle ground here? Where is the love?[/quote]

I’m not sure that there is a ‘middle ground’ to speak of, because most people that advocate bulking are referring to a properly executed bulk.
If a person embarks on a bulk, common sense would dictate that they have a clear plan of attack before they begin.

This obviously requires a good knowledge of nutrition, and
and the ability to know how much weight gain is acceptable over a given period.

The only people thinking in extremes are the people against bulking. Notice how the most vocal individuals are usually the ones to assume that bulking equals becoming a mountainous sack of lard.

I have never read anybody suggesting that someone should go all ‘cookie monster’ and bulk to the point of obesity and beyond. Yet people still assume that is what is meant by a bulk. All that says to me is that they don’t know how to conduct a proper bulk.