I can deadlift over 500 lbs, but when I look at other people with similar numbers their backs are always thicker and their traps more developed. I notice when I deadlift heavy weights it pulls my shoulders straight down, into a depressed state, should I be fighting that and almost shrugging while I pull the weight up?
Not sure how I missed this for all these years. When I’m deadlifting it pulls my shoulders down and my arms kind of just hang there while I’m pulling.
Or, You are pulling 500lbs, go to a competition and talk to people. Hell, just go see one.
[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
I can deadlift over 500 lbs, but when I look at other people with similar numbers their backs are always thicker and their traps more developed. I notice when I deadlift heavy weights it pulls my shoulders straight down, into a depressed state, should I be fighting that and almost shrugging while I pull the weight up?
[/quote]
(1) No, that is normal.
(2) DLing from the floor is just not an optimal way to build an impressive upper back ime. Didn’t do much for me either. Focus on heavy rack pulls - here it makes sense to play around with scapular retraction - and shrug variations.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
(2) DLing from the floor is just not an optimal way to build an impressive upper back ime. Didn’t do much for me either. Focus on heavy rack pulls - here it makes sense to play around with scapular retraction - and shrug variations.[/quote]
I absolutely agree with this. Having a big upper back/traps is helpful for deadlifting, but deadlifting is not necessarily helpful for having a big upper back/traps. Partial pulls do a stellar job of this.
It’s similar to how one can see successful long distance runners being skinny and conclude that long distance running must make you skinny, rather than the opposite thought process that being skinny can make you a successful long distance runner.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
(2) DLing from the floor is just not an optimal way to build an impressive upper back ime. Didn’t do much for me either. Focus on heavy rack pulls - here it makes sense to play around with scapular retraction - and shrug variations.[/quote]
I absolutely agree with this. Having a big upper back/traps is helpful for deadlifting, but deadlifting is not necessarily helpful for having a big upper back/traps. Partial pulls do a stellar job of this.
It’s similar to how one can see successful long distance runners being skinny and conclude that long distance running must make you skinny, rather than the opposite thought process that being skinny can make you a successful long distance runner.[/quote]
That’s interesting, never thought of it that way. What cues/modifications do you guys use when doing rack pulls for the sake of upper back hypertrophy?
[quote]Mizery wrote:
That’s interesting, never thought of it that way. What cues/modifications do you guys use when doing rack pulls for the sake of upper back hypertrophy?
[/quote]
I use mat pulls rather than rack pulls. That said, I never use any sort of cues. I don’t really see a need for them. If you’re doing heavy partial pulls, your upper back is going to have to grow.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]Mizery wrote:
That’s interesting, never thought of it that way. What cues/modifications do you guys use when doing rack pulls for the sake of upper back hypertrophy?
[/quote]
I use mat pulls rather than rack pulls. That said, I never use any sort of cues. I don’t really see a need for them. If you’re doing heavy partial pulls, your upper back is going to have to grow.[/quote]
How do you at up mats? And what level do you pull from relative to the knee?
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
How do you at up mats? And what level do you pull from relative to the knee?
[/quote]
I’m not sure what you mean by “how do you at up mats?”
For the second question, I use ROM progression in my training, so each week I pull from a different height. I’ll start the cycle at 7 mats in height, which for perspective you can see me pull here
I’ll work all the way down to the floor with this approach, eliminating 1 mat each week.
Didn’t know what you meant by mats…yoga mats, hard ones, thick thin. Plenty of variations
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Didn’t know what you meant by mats…yoga mats, hard ones, thick thin. Plenty of variations [/quote]
Ah, I use rubber patio tiles. They’re about 3/4" thick from last I saw. Plenty of possibilities. Blocks would also work too. AnytimeJake was using a similar method using boards stacked to various heights.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]Mizery wrote:
That’s interesting, never thought of it that way. What cues/modifications do you guys use when doing rack pulls for the sake of upper back hypertrophy?
[/quote]
That said, I never use any sort of cues. I don’t really see a need for them. If you’re doing heavy partial pulls, your upper back is going to have to grow.[/quote]
That’s some shit advice right there. Proper execution (form/technique/setup) is one if not the most important element in this lifting business no matter whether you are after performance or hypertrophy. Telling people to “just do it” is bad coaching.
@Mizery: You can do the pulls in two basic ways:
(1) start with a flexed (“rounded”) upper back (thoracic spine) and then extend (“unround”/straighten) it holding the bar.
(2) Keep shoulders back and standing “tall” the whole time while pulling.
Both styles work well and should complement each other. The second style (isometric approach) works particularly well with long TUT. Play around with grip widths and rack/block heights (don’t go too low as you want to focus on the upper back).
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
That’s some shit advice right there. Proper execution (form/technique/setup) is one if not the most important element in this lifting business no matter whether you are after performance or hypertrophy. Telling people to “just do it” is bad coaching.
[/quote]
To clarify, I did not offer any advice or coaching. I simply shared my experience. I do not employ any sort of cuing with the exercise and am able to utilize it to elicit upper back growth. I definitely agree with the value of setting up and technique, and have been very vocal on that matter, but for me, cuing just hasn’t been that important.
I understand from your post that you have a different experience than I do. That is cool. I am glad we are both finding ways that are helping us meet our goals.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
@Mizery: You can do the pulls in two basic ways:
(1) start with a flexed (“rounded”) upper back (thoracic spine) and then extend (“unround”/straighten) it holding the bar.
[/quote]
I’ve seen someone doing this before but it hurts my back just watching him doing it, but if it has your approval then I will definitely try it out.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Ah, I use rubber patio tiles. They’re about 3/4" thick from last I saw. Plenty of possibilities. Blocks would also work too. AnytimeJake was using a similar method using boards stacked to various heights.[/quote]
Thanks for these ideas as well, I’ve used some planks in the past for rack pulling but when I left for a few minutes and then come back, there was a large crack on the floor because the bar rolled off the planks. Rubber mats would probably work much better.
Snatch-grip work with retracted shoulders may also be something to try. It just puts a different load on the upper back.
I don’t personally have enough information to differentiate whether it was the snatch-grip work or just the movements in general that have caused upper back growth, but it’s something else to consider.
I don’t have matts or blocks; this is how I do them in the rack.
Touch & Go
Dead Stops
[quote]Mizery wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Ah, I use rubber patio tiles. They’re about 3/4" thick from last I saw. Plenty of possibilities. Blocks would also work too. AnytimeJake was using a similar method using boards stacked to various heights.[/quote]
Thanks for these ideas as well, I’ve used some planks in the past for rack pulling but when I left for a few minutes and then come back, there was a large crack on the floor because the bar rolled off the planks. Rubber mats would probably work much better.[/quote]
Glad I could help. When I was training in a commercial gym, I cut the mats in half so that I could carry them in my gym bag. It’s not as ideal as full mats when you stack them high, but they’ll definitely get the job done.
[quote]Mizery wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
@Mizery: You can do the pulls in two basic ways:
(1) start with a flexed (“rounded”) upper back (thoracic spine) and then extend (“unround”/straighten) it holding the bar.
[/quote]
I’ve seen someone doing this before but it hurts my back just watching him doing it, but if it has your approval then I will definitely try it out. [/quote]
You have? I think it is a very rare exercise. Sure people do the whole hunched-back pulling style, but there is a big difference between doing them intentionally with proper form as I suggest and out of ignorance. Anyway, I should have mentioned that I prefer to start a set from the hang rather than from a block/rack and never put it down during the set either. Also, perform them in a controlled manner, keep the bar close to your body, and don’t round your upper back too much.
Addendum to my first responses:
While most lifters don’t keep their shoulders tightly retracted during deadlifts from the floor as nobody taught them, it IS possible and a viable way to perform them. It is how Olympic WLers do them (“clean deadlift”). If you can do it that way, locking weights out will be a lot easier. One can argue that for non-competing lifters the clean deadlift might be the better way to do pulls.