Recently, I’ve come under some confusion about the proper shoulder position while deadlifting. Dave Tate says behind bar, while Rippetoe ways in front. I’ve been deadlifting more like what Rippetoe prescribes, but I’m going to experiment with Tate’s parameters. How exactly would you keep your shoulders behind the bar? I presume that you would simply have the bar further away from your shins. However, I’ve read that the further away the bar is, the more torque on your lower back, meaning less weight…
Could someone please throw me a bone here? Where do you guys position your shoulders?
in elitefts’s exercise index DVD for squats/deadlifting, jim wendler talked about keeping shoulders behind the bar as in NOT the front deltoids behind the bar, but the middle of the shoulders. so when you view from the side, half of your shoulder will be in front, while the other half will be behind the bar. did that make any sense?
[quote]awwww_fuq wrote:
in elitefts’s exercise index DVD for squats/deadlifting, jim wendler talked about keeping shoulders behind the bar as in NOT the front deltoids behind the bar, but the middle of the shoulders. so when you view from the side, half of your shoulder will be in front, while the other half will be behind the bar. did that make any sense?[/quote]
Yeah, that made sense. My shoulder-blades are over the bar when I deadlift, so would I have to keep the bar further away from my shins when I go to set up to get the shoulders in that position?
yeah that’s what i do… i keep it away from the shin just enough so that when i bend over, i will be in that position. once u ascend in the lift, your body will adjust accordingly and the bar will move closer to you (according to wendler).
he addressed two point that made helped me fixed my pull off the floor though… first is that to pull your head back throughout the lift. i know rippetoe said to find a point on the floor and fix your gaze at it. the second was to not only pull up but also lean back back. if you pull up and back, the bar will stay close to you. tell if any of the doesn’t make sense.
i’m trying to snap a pic of the vid right now so you see what i mean
Shoulders “behind” the bar will make moving the weight of the floor heavier, try to be a little over the bar, and then pull back when you’re past the knees, shifting your weight from mid foot to almost heels only.
Might be a little tricky to master at first but will give you a smoother pull.
its more a mental image thing to keep you from using all back on the lift. concentrate on pulling back. lighter weights you should actually almost fall backwards.
[quote]awwww_fuq wrote:
in elitefts’s exercise index DVD for squats/deadlifting, jim wendler talked about keeping shoulders behind the bar as in NOT the front deltoids behind the bar, but the middle of the shoulders. so when you view from the side, half of your shoulder will be in front, while the other half will be behind the bar. did that make any sense?[/quote]
Yeah, that made sense. My shoulder-blades are over the bar when I deadlift, so would I have to keep the bar further away from my shins when I go to set up to get the shoulders in that position?[/quote]
It may not be that the bar needs to be further from your shins. Having the bar too far out in front of you is a low back killer.
You may be setting up with your hips too high which is putting you over the bar too far. If you set up with your hips a bit lower, then your shoulders naturally come back over the bar.
Your shoulders need to be behind the bar. The deadlift is a pull up and back. What the hell are you going to pull back on if your shoulders are in front of the bar? Also, they arent really talking about shoulder positioning if you really read into what they are talking about.
Rip talks about scapular alignment with the bar, which is what really matters, and how they need to be directly above it. That doesnt mean shoulders in front of the bar. That means arch the shit out of your upper back.
People who say not to put the bar too far out in front, everyone is different. Most people cant get optimal leverage with the bar starting against their shins. Like I said before. The deadlift is up and back. There is nothing to pull back on if your are grinding the bar against your shins.
Personally, I start out with the bar lined up with the knuckles of my big toes and I have a size 15 foot. So, thats pretty far away but I can keep my scapulas lined up with the bar, actually use my hips once the bar is off the floor, and have the best possible leverage at my lockout(my weakpoint).
This guy suggests “crowding” the bar with your mid-section to the point of setting your belly-button in front of the bar combined with the most extreme arched position you can create with your spine
…so shoulder position slightly different based on body type, that’s one school of thought anyway, worked for Bill, around 800 @ low 200’s bdywt
[quote]awwww_fuq wrote:
in elitefts’s exercise index DVD for squats/deadlifting, jim wendler talked about keeping shoulders behind the bar as in NOT the front deltoids behind the bar, but the middle of the shoulders. so when you view from the side, half of your shoulder will be in front, while the other half will be behind the bar. did that make any sense?[/quote]
Yeah, that made sense. My shoulder-blades are over the bar when I deadlift, so would I have to keep the bar further away from my shins when I go to set up to get the shoulders in that position?[/quote]
It may not be that the bar needs to be further from your shins. Having the bar too far out in front of you is a low back killer.
You may be setting up with your hips too high which is putting you over the bar too far. If you set up with your hips a bit lower, then your shoulders naturally come back over the bar.
This is just a guess without a video of a lift.[/quote]
If it helps your evaluation any, the bar is REALLY close to my shins when I step up to the bar. Like, maybe one inch if that.
[quote]LikeWater wrote:
This guy suggests “crowding” the bar with your mid-section to the point of setting your belly-button in front of the bar combined with the most extreme arched position you can create with your spine
…so shoulder position slightly different based on body type, that’s one school of thought anyway, worked for Bill, around 800 @ low 200’s bdywt[/quote]
