Shoulder/Rotator Cuff Pain

Training Injuries
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shadowzz4 and xydharth - So I tried ALL the exercises and here’s my input on them.

For the external rotations the side lying variation…I am still trying to squeeze my infraspinatus during the movement…it seems like I can get it squeezed at the top of the movement I am retracting my shoulder as much as I can and it seems like I try to come up to high and that’s no good (trying to reach perpendicular) so I shortened the ROM a bit more and seems I felt it more there. I will play with this more…I will also do the standing variation that was recommended with a towel between torso and arm…if the towel falls you automatically know that your elbow is drifting away from the body too much and this isn’t proper…I feel I can get a good retraction out of this as well.

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I’ve been doing face pulls almost every session for 2x30, and some external/internal rotations. I have a feeling I might have experienced similar results without doing them but my shoulder is starting to feel better. Still not 100% and I won’t try barbell benching for a few more weeks at least, but at least it’s healing it seems.

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Other test results. I did the TRUTH ABOUT THE SLEEPER STRETCH. Right arm is fine. Left arm that is injured…definaetly have the tightness there and can feel it. Cures - I’m going to do the posterior capsule stretch everyday along with the the 2 rocker inferior capsule stretches. I also did the levator scapulae stretch and the left side is much tighter than the right as well.

Okay so a breakdown this is what I’m gonig to be doing EVERYDAY for stretching/mobility:

Shoulder rehab stretching:

posterior capsule stretch -(was wondering whether to retract shoulder when doing this stretch or to just make
sure shoulder doesnt come off ground)
rocker inferior capsule stretch #1
rocker inferior capsule stretch #2
Towel stretch
Prayer stretch

Pec stretch (as in article by xydharth)
Pec minor stretch

Upper trap stretch
Levator scapulae stretch
Quadruped Extension + Rotation
Thorasic Mobilization (I looked at this and it seems we only want to move upper back as much as possible and
thats it)

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Here is another set of series I will do as well EVERYDAY along with the ones listed above.

These are all not strenous and that’s why I will do them everyday. I picked this up at the evolutionaryathletics.com website

Shoulder Mobility and Health
These active stretches are the brainchild of my friend Colin. They are excellent!

  1. tuck chin hard and pull shoulder blades back together, really stretch the pec minor and hold for 20secs

  2. tuck chin, pull shoulders down and internally rotates arms as hard as you can and hold for 20secs. Arms will be locked straight

  3. the same but externally rotate them, with arms coming out to the side away from the body. It will naturally go there anyway and pulls arms towards the rear a bit, locked straight

  4. reach overhead and rotate arms like your gonna do a shoulder width chin up and then pull the arms towards the rear using your upper back muscles, and feel the lats stretch etc. Hold for 20 secs

  5. hold your hands behind you back, pull shoulders down and back, and pull your head to one side, looking slightly upward to stretch the neck muscles, hold for 20secs, repeat on the other

Enjoy!

65

Sorry this is so longwinded…but here is the final things I will be doing (aside from the foam roll which is done everyday) I will do these exercises 2-3x a week.

  • Thorasic extensions

  • Thorasic foam roll

  • Post. delt foam roll with tennis ball

  • Wall Slides

  • LYTP on swiss ball (different weights for each exercise)

  • BIKE face pulls (on bench to avoid excessive lean) 2 sets of 25-30

  • side lying external rotations 2-3x15-20 (concentrate on squeeze at top)

  • standing external rotations - when becoming proficient at both of these will incorporate FREE STANDING (scarecrows and seated db cleans) - AVOID FATIGUE/FAILURE - restart/retract if not feeling movement properly.

  • Heavy Overhead shrugs 3x10

  • Pull-up retractions

  • Scap Pushups/ 1-arm supine protractions

  • Prone internal rotations (got this one from ec’s shoulders savers pt.2) AS WELL standing internal rotation with cable

So that’s it for exercises - I am going to split them up into 2 groups and do it 2-3x a week.

As well I am going to incorporate pushups:

What do you all think about the med-ball pushups/unstable pushups…I am guessing they are good to activate the rotator cuff muscles and wouldn’t be bad for a warmup before an upper body workout - thoughts?

66

When you are talking about doing pushups from a beneficial shoulder stabilization standpoint, usually the serratus is the muscle that is going to be the target of such pushups. One question would be, do you know what it feels like to work your serratus? Its the same as the external rotations I talked about earlier, you have to feel the serratus doing work, that is very important. When doing pushups and focusing on the serratus, I find it extremely beneficial to concentrate on the eccentric portion of the movement.

If you are keeping your serratus tight, you can feel it take over during the eccentric, as well as concentric parts of the pushup. The result is a pushup that feels rock solid, extremely stable, especially through the shoulders. At the same time you are probably not going to feel much pec, at least during the pushups. Done properly, you will even get a very noticeable pump in your serratus and sometimes will get sore there.

Doing pushups with the ball, is ok I suppose, but just remember, adding the ball in and of itself does nothing, you have to focus on the muscle. I would try to master the normal pushup first and do several sets of 10-12 reps really focusing instead of trying to crush yourself.

I would only do this 2 times a week at most. The rest of it looks good, remember you are probably trying to get infraspinatus with a lax ball I would recommend, not posterior delt with tennis ball.

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Sorry this is so longwinded…but here is the final things I will be doing (aside from the foam roll which is done everyday) I will do these exercises 2-3x a week.

  • Thorasic extensions

  • Thorasic foam roll

  • Post. delt foam roll with tennis ball

  • Wall Slides

  • LYTP on swiss ball (different weights for each exercise)

  • BIKE face pulls (on bench to avoid excessive lean) 2 sets of 25-30

  • side lying external rotations 2-3x15-20 (concentrate on squeeze at top)

  • standing external rotations - when becoming proficient at both of these will incorporate FREE STANDING (scarecrows and seated db cleans) - AVOID FATIGUE/FAILURE - restart/retract if not feeling movement properly.

  • Heavy Overhead shrugs 3x10

  • Pull-up retractions

  • Scap Pushups/ 1-arm supine protractions

  • Prone internal rotations (got this one from ec’s shoulders savers pt.2) AS WELL standing internal rotation with cable

So that’s it for exercises - I am going to split them up into 2 groups and do it 2-3x a week.

As well I am going to incorporate pushups:

What do you all think about the med-ball pushups/unstable pushups…I am guessing they are good to activate the rotator cuff muscles and wouldn’t be bad for a warmup before an upper body workout - thoughts?

[/quote]

67


okay awesome…I will do it 2x a week…I’m not sure how to compeltely feel the serratus work…I do know what muscle it is, I will play around with it.
I think bench press protractions is another way to work the serratus anterior correct?

Okay so regarding the rotator cuff. Does the tennis ball when I use it…does the posterior delt/infraspinatus kinda connect? They are very cloes to eachother are they not?

In general when I do tennis ball work near my armpit it KILLS…like I can feel a huge knot and I put pressure on it but man it really does hurt. Definately near/where my armpit is though, but I’m not sure if that is infraspinatus?

Another thing regarding the ext. rotation work.
I did the lying variation and I want to make sure I am feeling the right thing…I lift and squeeze and try to feel that muscle and I feel it again near my armpit/area around there. That’s where I feel the muscle working, especailly when I squeeze at the top of the movement…is this right or wrong? lol i’ve been really trying to wrap my head around it and looking at many anatomy pictures.

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By the way pumped340 I am sorry if it feels I hijacked this thread a little bit lol but I hope this info helps you as well because I got this injury from being careless…not stretching pecs/shoulders/neck, doing much more pressing/punching movements instead of pulling. Never did any external work, my shoulders are defianetly protracted and I just want to improve.

I hope all this work also helps me reach my goal of 405 bench press, I was at 390 at 200-205lbs and wanted to get that 405…but coupled with boxing my shoulder died on me.

I hope after a fwe months of this work my shoulders and everything will be much stronger and I will crush that 405…I read charles poliquin article as well and am very it is crazy the gains that hockey player made on his bench press!
I think I will be using the exercises/tests he used adn the ratio it should be compared to the bench press (of course all done with perfect form)

69

lol don’t worry about it, I haven’t read through everything at this point but what I have seems helpful and I don’t claim rights to the thread :slight_smile:

70

I found a useful link which discusses a/the cause of subacromial impingement (which is when my shoulder sometimes feels like the bone is sawing the tendon and muscle off).

I saw someone in here said something like they thought they could have improved just as quickly without face pulls. That may be the case, but what I aim for is control of my own body and injuries, to prevent them occurring, rather than simply getting good ‘enough’ then waiting for the injury to reoccur. The face pulls have been vital in activating the lower trap area for me.

The other side of the coin is to avoid activating the upper traps. I am extremely trap dominant, which is ok, except that it is out of harmony with the surrounding muscles. For example, I ‘forgot I knew this’ (got lazy/complacent) this week at work, and starting leaning on one arm of my chair, pretty much all the time. Essentially I was contracting the upper traps all day. Now, that one side fucking hurts at the trapezius.

So a good tactic is to pinch the upper trap, HARD on both sides, to ‘switch it off’ if you are having issues with properly recruiting the lower traps. Also, you know how guys on T-Nation have been saying that static stretching a muscle makes it weaker in the short-term? I static stretch my traps. I love making it weaker in the short term, means I can properly recruit lower/mid trap area, and delts in pressing and raising-movements.

Not to get too deep here but I think (and there’s some esoteric research also claiming this) that we automatically hunch up our shoulders in times of aggression, or stress. So all the time, basically lol. I think that this needs to be offset, in a dedicated and intelligent way, otherwise it will build up and cause problems.

Hey, I hope this makes sense and all that

71

I cannot stress the importance of the tennis ball work under the armpit. I have been recovering from an AC problem for the best part of 6 months. ART sessions have worked well but the problem seemed to recur in between treatments, e.g. carrying bags, sleeping on the shoulder, etc.

The ART therapist said the crux of the problem for me was in the armpit area so one night after a training session, when I pushed the shoulder too far and was in agony afterwards, in desperation I set about the area by lying on my side with the tennis ball under the armpit/rear delt. The relief was almost instant and mobility increased. I now do this work 1-2 times daily, especialy before and after training.

I also do some daily stretching, foam roller work and employ shoulder rehab work at the gym, e.g. YTWLs, face pulls, L fly.

You have to find out what you can do at the gym that doesn’t irritate the problem. For me I have had to drop all chest work, pressing, overhead pulls, chins, etc. I’m fine with lower body work, including the squat even though it can stretch the shoulder area. For upper body, most rowing movements are fine, as are trap bar deadlifts and BB rack pulls. The renegade row is also good for me because I get a slight chest workout from this without any of the shoulder pain.

So in summary, tennis ball, tennis ball, tennis ball, and some mobility work, stretching and shoulder rehab exercises in that order!

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[quote]pumped340 wrote:

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Where does your shoulder hurt?[/quote]

Roughly between the anterior and medial delt muscles. Feels like it’s kind of behind the muscle at the joint. [/quote]

my right shoulder kills me in exactly that spot. I found a way to work my bench as hard as I want with almost no shoulder pain.

  1. I use only db
  2. You know the stability balls that everyone laughs at? The trainer at the gym showed me how to bench on a stability ball. It is great. It lets my scapula move some, supports the scapula and takes just enough pressure off the shoulder joints. It’s the only way i bench now. It takes a little practice, but in a couple of days playing with it, you’ll have it down. here are a couple of tips. use the smallest ball, and hardest one you can find. Have somebody inflate it so it is HARD. You don’t want your arms hitting in on the way down. Place the ball where you can sit on it, pick up the db, sit on the ball, weights on the knees. Walk your feet out, roll onto your upper back. keep your hips up. Press. Control the weight so you don’t bounce. Lower weight, again under control…repeat. When you are done, unload the weights down to the floor just like you were on a hard bench.

no kidding, this has saved my bench and my shoulders. If you want to do an incline, just drop your hips to the desired angle.

Play around with it. have fun.

73

[quote]rasturai wrote:
As well what does that mean most problems in the infrapinatus? I thought the tension and problems would be in supraspinatus for impingement…I mean that’s where my problem is stemming from I am a little confused here…but I guess it’s pretty much more or less the same treatment for most type of shoulder injuries.

LASTLY - sorry to kinda hijack here for one second pumped340 but I have a question about external rotations…

I don’t understand how to do them at all…I have vids of them they seem easy, but it seems that it’s very easy to cheat with your arms free and what not…shoulder horn is pretty $$ and I’m not sure how good it can be…my external rotators are VERY weak lol…and so far it seems they are not getting stronger…I am probably cheating somehow…should i just pitch in the money for the hsoulder horn, is it worth it or any alternative…
I hope this info can help pumped340 and anyone else with the same concern!

All we want is healthy shoulders!![/quote]

In addition to above, when you are doing actual external rotations, like lets say the one where your elbow is on your knee or lower quad, in order to not cheat, and to hit the correct muscles, you should be pressing your elbow into your leg as hard as you can THE ENTIRE TIME. Same for all the other ones, like the cable one with your elbow at your side- put a towel between you and the inside of your elbow, and press in so hard the towel never moves or falls. You will then feel them where you should and be incapable of cheating.

Hope this helps.

Kubo

74

So happy where this thread is. Yes Mike that helped a lot! I will keep that in mind.

I got a quick question about that infraspinatus: In general when I do tennis ball work near my armpit it KILLS…like I can feel a huge knot and I put pressure on it but man it really does hurt. Definately near/where my armpit is though, but I’m not sure if that is infraspinatus?

I’ve been doing the lying down variation and feel it in my armpit type area when I squeeze…I feel it mostly at the top of the movement.

By the way thank you so much for explaining that I have to really squeeze my elbow into my side, I will do this tonight and squeeze that elbow as hard as I can! lol

75

Found this gem on net last Friday. Printed it out and read this weekend. Very good read - explanations, rehab, prevention, and program. do a google on 7_minute_rotator_cuff_solution in pdf. Good shit

76

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
I cannot stress the importance of the tennis ball work under the armpit. I have been recovering from an AC problem for the best part of 6 months. ART sessions have worked well but the problem seemed to recur in between treatments, e.g. carrying bags, sleeping on the shoulder, etc.

The ART therapist said the crux of the problem for me was in the armpit area so one night after a training session, when I pushed the shoulder too far and was in agony afterwards, in desperation I set about the area by lying on my side with the tennis ball under the armpit/rear delt. The relief was almost instant and mobility increased. I now do this work 1-2 times daily, especialy before and after training.

I also do some daily stretching, foam roller work and employ shoulder rehab work at the gym, e.g. YTWLs, face pulls, L fly.

You have to find out what you can do at the gym that doesn’t irritate the problem. For me I have had to drop all chest work, pressing, overhead pulls, chins, etc. I’m fine with lower body work, including the squat even though it can stretch the shoulder area. For upper body, most rowing movements are fine, as are trap bar deadlifts and BB rack pulls. The renegade row is also good for me because I get a slight chest workout from this without any of the shoulder pain.

So in summary, tennis ball, tennis ball, tennis ball, and some mobility work, stretching and shoulder rehab exercises in that order![/quote]

So you haven’t done pressing in 6 months?

Can you explain the tennis ball movement a little more? I tried it today for the first time and it felt fine but nothing special. So your lying down, not against a wall? And it goes on your back by your rear delt area?

MikeKubo, that’s for the tip

As far as my own shoulder now, I noticed on Saturday when doing incline DB benching the first warm up set felt more uncomfortable than I was expecting, but after that I actually didn’t even notice it, nor do I notice it during the day anymore so that’s good. I promised myself I would hit a BB bench goal before starting to lean down a little, but I don’t want to be stupid about it…maybe I’ll just set a DB bench goal :\

77

I took a few weeks off (traveling for work) in mid march and then started lifting again last week. Felt great last week, but this week my pressing and front squats hurt my shoulders. I got lazy and didn’t do the diesel crew 5 day prehab I should have been doing. Starting that up again and hoping that the shoulder gets better.

Same thing as last time. Now, I know not to be lazy again. I might move to dumbbells for a couple of weeks with wrists parallel to body for a few weeks just so my shoulder can catchup.

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pumped 340 this is the tennis ball exercise

you can do the rotations with it…but I have so much pain in that area…it kills lol…move it around this area and you will find a spot that hurts a lot lol.

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it starts at 3:05

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[quote]pumped340 wrote:
So you haven’t done pressing in 6 months?

Can you explain the tennis ball movement a little more? I tried it today for the first time and it felt fine but nothing special. So your lying down, not against a wall? And it goes on your back by your rear delt area?

[/quote]

Nope, pressing = pain so other than some push ups I’m press-free. Has my upper physique suffered? Hell yes, but doing the rowing and now shrugs and rack pulls is making me stronger and giving me development in those areas.

Regarding the tennis ball, I lie on my side with arm nearest the floor kind of extended above my head (though not perfectly straight). The tennis ball should be in the armpit area, then slightly rotate your body towards the ceiling a few degrees, while the ball is close to where the armpit meets trap/lower delt. Honestly, if you’re tight in there then you will notice it with the foam roller, never mind a tennis ball. It should be very, very sensitive. I gently rock vertically, rolling the area a few inches. Sometimes I can only manage a few seconds then have to ease off.

You can do it on a wall but it seems to work best if the tennis ball is in a groove, e.g. a door facing, so the ball doesn’t spin away. I like to turn around and do the outer pec that way too. Just make sure no one sees you or they will assume you’re some pervert who likes humping walls!