Should I Take Creatine Or No?

Nutrition
21

[quote]millasur wrote:
I tink its funny that some people ignore the question in hand completely and say “get your diet in order etc etc etc” where is the actual proof that he hasn’t got his diet in order?! because hes small? you don’t grow overnight you know. or do people forget that once they get a bit bigger?! you were small once too right…
[/quote]

You also don’t figure out your own body overnight as far as what it takes to get much larger. He weighs 125lbs. That isn’t just “small”, that is freaking tiny. There is no way someone who is 125lbs knows what it will take to keep growing when he hits 140, 150, or 160lbs. He doesn’t even have the basics down and you want him to introduce an outside source? At 125lbs, he doesn’t need creatine. His body will grow once he quits starving it.

22

[quote]millasur wrote:
I tink its funny that some people ignore the question in hand completely and say “get your diet in order etc etc etc” where is the actual proof that he hasn’t got his diet in order?! because hes small? you don’t grow overnight you know. or do people forget that once they get a bit bigger?! you were small once too right…
[/quote]

I disagree, I think it’s awesome that people in here don’t just answer the initial question without getting the base information they need. Yes, some do have a rather acerbic way of going about it, but they mean well. It’s easy to become a bit testy when you hear the same questions repeated every day.

I for one wish I had had a place like T-Nation to ask questions when I first got into lifting. I probably would have asked the same questions about creatine and really advanced programs and probably would’ve gotten annoyed when I got answers like “eat better” or “just lift heavy.” But I would’ve gotten over it eventually and probably taken a look at my diet and training and been like “oh my god, what the hell am I doing here?”

Who know’s, maybe the poster really does know his shit about training and diet. Maybe he’s missing an arm and a leg, that would account for the low body weight.

Anyway, I still say to the original poster, let’s see the proof.

Cheers,
Jay

23

[quote]millasur wrote:
I tink its funny that some people ignore the question in hand completely and say “get your diet in order etc etc etc” where is the actual proof that he hasn’t got his diet in order?! because hes small? you don’t grow overnight you know. or do people forget that once they get a bit bigger?! you were small once too right…
[/quote]

5’10" 125# is proof that his diet and training are messed up, or if they are in order they only have been for about a week.

He should not worry about creatine yet.

24

I’m not a big fan of Creatine. I took it years ago and ended up just putting on some water weight, which went away a week or so after stopping it. At the time, I was in marathon training and a pretty solid strength-training program, so the weight I put on was not because I was taking Creatine and playing Xbox.

Anyway, I’d say you’d do better to work on your diet and strength program.

25

As you can all tell, I’m not objecting to anything you’re saying, so I have no idea why you are all flaming me. Growth spurts actually make you skinny and tall, I was fat and short my whole life. I never “starved” myself, I was taught to eat to satisfaction and stop, before you over eat. When I was hungry, I at, when I was full I stopped. That was what I did and I thinned out alot, but doing this was unfortunate during that time period because I was growing like crazy (9 inches in 7 months) and I was just eating enough to keep my body satisfied, not to keep it big. So yeah, I FUCKED UP, and I admit it. But, that doesn’t mean you have to come here and say I don’t know shit when I honestly do. I’ve been reading moderatly since I started training (to get lean, at the time) 4 years ago. I realized about 2 months ago that I was extremely skinny and so I started reading into how to get bigger. So I DO KNOW ALOT, but I’ve been reading so that I know how to do it correctly, and to find the correct programs for me. And for those of you who are going to say “well why the fuck didn’t you get into the gym when you realized you were a rail” well, I’d rather have all of the information down before I start. Even if you guys did say “yes” I wasn’t going to anyways until I have a good base of muscle.

And I know someone’s going to say something along the lines of, “see, you’ve only been reading a couple of months, you don’t know anything,” pull your head out of your ass and realize that doesn’t mean anything. I could learn as much of what you’ve been reading your whole damn life, in the time I’ve been reading.

Thanks for those who gave me an honest answer

26

[quote]deanosumo wrote:
You weigh 125 pounds. Creatine may give you 5 pounds, 10 at the utmost. Your real question should be: should I take food? Only hard, sensible training plus lots of eating will give you any permanent mass gain.[/quote]

Well said. Son, you need to eat and eat big. Creatine is for giving you that edge in strength after you have been training awhile. Lift heavy then eat all day long. Milk by the gallons, red meat, chicken, hell, anything that walked the earth at one time. Stay away from the junk food. But for the love of God…EAT!!!

JD

27

[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
As you can all tell, I’m not objecting to anything you’re saying, so I have no idea why you are all flaming me. Growth spurts actually make you skinny and tall, I was fat and short my whole life. I never “starved” myself, I was taught to eat to satisfaction and stop, before you over eat. When I was hungry, I at, when I was full I stopped. That was what I did and I thinned out alot, but doing this was unfortunate during that time period because I was growing like crazy (9 inches in 7 months) and I was just eating enough to keep my body satisfied, not to keep it big. So yeah, I FUCKED UP, and I admit it. But, that doesn’t mean you have to come here and say I don’t know shit when I honestly do. I’ve been reading moderatly since I started training (to get lean, at the time) 4 years ago. I realized about 2 months ago that I was extremely skinny and so I started reading into how to get bigger. So I DO KNOW ALOT, but I’ve been reading so that I know how to do it correctly, and to find the correct programs for me. And for those of you who are going to say “well why the fuck didn’t you get into the gym when you realized you were a rail” well, I’d rather have all of the information down before I start. Even if you guys did say “yes” I wasn’t going to anyways until I have a good base of muscle.

And I know someone’s going to say something along the lines of, “see, you’ve only been reading a couple of months, you don’t know anything,” pull your head out of your ass and realize that doesn’t mean anything. I could learn as much of what you’ve been reading your whole damn life, in the time I’ve been reading.

Thanks for those who gave me an honest answer[/quote]

I should have read this post before I responded. After reading this, I got to tell you son, you’re way off base. I’ve been pushing iron around this earth for over 30 years, and I didn’t learn shit from a book, magazine, or the fag gym queen. It came from busting my ass and being humble. It came from talking to the “old timers” and being open to their advice. I give you credit for wanting to improve yourslef and add some wieght. Your attitude sucks. There are a lot of people on this forum that will bend ass over backwards to help you and there is a lot of experience to draw from. But if you think you know it all from reading a couple of books and magazines…then the hell with you. I’ll see you in another 10 years at 126 pounds…
JD

28

[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
As you can all tell, I’m not objecting to anything you’re saying, so I have no idea why you are all flaming me. Growth spurts actually make you skinny and tall, I was fat and short my whole life. I never “starved” myself, I was taught to eat to satisfaction and stop, before you over eat. When I was hungry, I at, when I was full I stopped. That was what I did and I thinned out alot, but doing this was unfortunate during that time period because I was growing like crazy (9 inches in 7 months) and I was just eating enough to keep my body satisfied, not to keep it big. So yeah, I FUCKED UP, and I admit it. But, that doesn’t mean you have to come here and say I don’t know shit when I honestly do. I’ve been reading moderatly since I started training (to get lean, at the time) 4 years ago. I realized about 2 months ago that I was extremely skinny and so I started reading into how to get bigger. So I DO KNOW ALOT, but I’ve been reading so that I know how to do it correctly, and to find the correct programs for me. And for those of you who are going to say “well why the fuck didn’t you get into the gym when you realized you were a rail” well, I’d rather have all of the information down before I start. Even if you guys did say “yes” I wasn’t going to anyways until I have a good base of muscle.

And I know someone’s going to say something along the lines of, “see, you’ve only been reading a couple of months, you don’t know anything,” pull your head out of your ass and realize that doesn’t mean anything. I could learn as much of what you’ve been reading your whole damn life, in the time I’ve been reading.

Thanks for those who gave me an honest answer[/quote]

You are an idiot. You know nothing. As soon as I read that you were waiting until you learned it all to go to the gym and try it, I knew you were a complete freakin’ idiot.

Then I read all three of your posts oin this thread. I reread them to make sure…and yep, you’re an idiot.

You got only honest answers by all, you choose to use which ones you want, but I’ll tell you right now creatine is not where you want to go. You need to eat and lift if gaining size is your goal. Creatine has it’s purpose, your’s is not it.

Now go read for the next 15 minutes. Isn’t that like 1 year worth of my reading time???

29

I really don’t understand the attitude many people hold about not using creatine until you’re an advanced trainer. Why?

Doesn’t it make more sense to try it early on in addition to sound lifting and eating habits, see if it makes a difference, and then continue to enjoy the benefit of enhanced energy system function, improved anabolism, better oxygen delivery to the brain, etc., for your whole lifting career (if you’re a responder)?

The attitude of “wait until you’re an experienced lifter” seems to be akin to saying “don’t squat until you have a few years of training under your belt.”

Can someone explain to me why this attitude is still held by many? I’m not trying to be snippy, I’m honestly curious and I can’t figure it out.

I can see taking a super-conservative stance and not recommending it to teenagers under the VERY slight possibility that using it may permanenetly downregulate natural creatine production, but data so far suggests that this doesn’t happen (and I’ve certainly never heard of it happening in the media). Most who say not to take it as a novice also recommend the same thing to adult (20+ year olds) newbies, too, though…

-Dan

30

No one told him he should not use creatine; everyone was trying to tell him its useless unless combined with an effective training and diet programme.

The cocky twat on the other hand, believes he knows far more than most of us. Why doesn’t he become a regular contributor then?

31

Dan,
From my point of view, you should have a good base before you use any supplements (excluding protien). When you start training, your body is very responsive to stimulus and nutrition. Frankly, I don’t think supplements would move your progress along any faster at this stage. (as long as your diet is dialed in) Not saying that supplementation would be bad, just that it’s not needed. Save it for when your progress starts to slow, and you need to fine tune. In my opinion, the increase in muscle size from creatine is a side affect. I use it for the increased strength and endurance which enables me to train harder and stimulate more muscle fibers. Just my opinion bro. I’m a big fan of mastering the basics before moving on. I think too many kids are in a hurry to start training like the guys in the mags.

JD

32

[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
As you can all tell, I’m not objecting to anything you’re saying, so I have no idea why you are all flaming me. Growth spurts actually make you skinny and tall, I was fat and short my whole life. I never “starved” myself, I was taught to eat to satisfaction and stop, before you over eat. When I was hungry, I at, when I was full I stopped. That was what I did and I thinned out alot, but doing this was unfortunate during that time period because I was growing like crazy (9 inches in 7 months) and I was just eating enough to keep my body satisfied, not to keep it big. So yeah, I FUCKED UP, and I admit it. But, that doesn’t mean you have to come here and say I don’t know shit when I honestly do. I’ve been reading moderatly since I started training (to get lean, at the time) 4 years ago. I realized about 2 months ago that I was extremely skinny and so I started reading into how to get bigger. So I DO KNOW ALOT, but I’ve been reading so that I know how to do it correctly, and to find the correct programs for me. And for those of you who are going to say “well why the fuck didn’t you get into the gym when you realized you were a rail” well, I’d rather have all of the information down before I start. Even if you guys did say “yes” I wasn’t going to anyways until I have a good base of muscle.

And I know someone’s going to say something along the lines of, “see, you’ve only been reading a couple of months, you don’t know anything,” pull your head out of your ass and realize that doesn’t mean anything. I could learn as much of what you’ve been reading your whole damn life, in the time I’ve been reading.

Thanks for those who gave me an honest answer[/quote]

Hahahha. Keep yapping Muscleteen. Your attitude sucks. Read all you want…but I’ve only been lifting for eight years…which is peanuts compared to some of these other guys…what the hell would we know.

My yellow lab outeighs you by 4 pounds. Therefore, you have no right to say anything.

33

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
I really don’t understand the attitude many people hold about not using creatine until you’re an advanced trainer. Why?

Doesn’t it make more sense to try it early on in addition to sound lifting and eating habits, see if it makes a difference, and then continue to enjoy the benefit of enhanced energy system function, improved anabolism, better oxygen delivery to the brain, etc., for your whole lifting career (if you’re a responder)?

The attitude of “wait until you’re an experienced lifter” seems to be akin to saying “don’t squat until you have a few years of training under your belt.”

Can someone explain to me why this attitude is still held by many? I’m not trying to be snippy, I’m honestly curious and I can’t figure it out.

I can see taking a super-conservative stance and not recommending it to teenagers under the VERY slight possibility that using it may permanenetly downregulate natural creatine production, but data so far suggests that this doesn’t happen (and I’ve certainly never heard of it happening in the media). Most who say not to take it as a novice also recommend the same thing to adult (20+ year olds) newbies, too, though…

-Dan[/quote]

I would normally agree with your position buffalo, but this kid’s posts suggest he doesn’t have the very basic knowlege to even benefit from creatine.

I know he says so, but my feelings, in this case, would be to gain more knowlege and experience in eating/nutrition before supping. His own story: he goes from fat to skinny because of a growth spurt. He hasn’t begun a real program because he’s still reading to learn everything first before he goes to a gym and put it to use. He has read as much in four years as I have my whole life, yet I must once again say that he has yet to put it to use.
In this case, why would you suggest or agree that creatine is a necessary or positive step? I try to analyze each post as their own and give advice based on available info.
Creatine would not be on my to do list here.

34

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
BlakedaMan wrote:
As you can all tell, I’m not objecting to anything you’re saying, so I have no idea why you are all flaming me. Growth spurts actually make you skinny and tall, I was fat and short my whole life. I never “starved” myself, I was taught to eat to satisfaction and stop, before you over eat. When I was hungry, I at, when I was full I stopped. That was what I did and I thinned out alot, but doing this was unfortunate during that time period because I was growing like crazy (9 inches in 7 months) and I was just eating enough to keep my body satisfied, not to keep it big. So yeah, I FUCKED UP, and I admit it. But, that doesn’t mean you have to come here and say I don’t know shit when I honestly do. I’ve been reading moderatly since I started training (to get lean, at the time) 4 years ago. I realized about 2 months ago that I was extremely skinny and so I started reading into how to get bigger. So I DO KNOW ALOT, but I’ve been reading so that I know how to do it correctly, and to find the correct programs for me. And for those of you who are going to say “well why the fuck didn’t you get into the gym when you realized you were a rail” well, I’d rather have all of the information down before I start. Even if you guys did say “yes” I wasn’t going to anyways until I have a good base of muscle.

And I know someone’s going to say something along the lines of, “see, you’ve only been reading a couple of months, you don’t know anything,” pull your head out of your ass and realize that doesn’t mean anything. I could learn as much of what you’ve been reading your whole damn life, in the time I’ve been reading.

Thanks for those who gave me an honest answer

Hahahha. Keep yapping Muscleteen. Your attitude sucks. Read all you want…but I’ve only been lifting for eight years…which is peanuts compared to some of these other guys…what the hell would we know.

My yellow lab outeighs you by 4 pounds. Therefore, you have no right to say anything.[/quote]

Jesus…what does your dog bench? :slight_smile:

Oh, yeah: Muscleteen. This kid is the reason people hate teenagers.

35

Yo BlakedaMan, apparently money would be better spent on these things:

  1. anger management classes
  2. real food (Pop tarts don’t count)
  3. education (don’t tell anyone but I heard books can improve your already massively impressive knowledge)

Fahd

36

Let me preface this by saying that I haven’t taken creatine. I am definitly a beginner, and am anxious to get to the point where I can start experimenting and fine-tuning things, but… I haven’t even tuned anything (if that makes any sense?). Right now I am still trying to figure out my 3RM maxes and trying to get my form down on all the major lifts. Also, I’ve only really been eating well for about a month.

My weight has only now just stabilized (I used to eat so many carbs it would jump 3-4 pounds from day-to-day, even though I was skinny) because I’m eating consistantly. Next week I’m going to start adding Surge and seeing how that helps post-workout recovery. After that, I’m going to experiment with something else in my diet/training regimen and monitor that for a couple of weeks.

The point I am trying to get to, in a roundabout way, is that as a beginner, it would be difficult to see if creatine was helping me, if I was using an effective dosage, etc. etc. Obviously it is impossible to isolate variables in training, but you should at least try your best.

I think most research shows that creatine is safe. Therefore, I see no drawback in trying it, as long as you have a base to compare it to.

By the way, I’m a teenager… Please don’t hate me.

37

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:

By the way, I’m a teenager… Please don’t hate me.[/quote]

Hey kid, it’s not the age it’s the attitude. Good post, and I agree. Get the basics down, learn how to lift, start packing on some quality meat, than you can tell what supps are going to work for you.

JD

38

[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
I’ve been reading moderatly since I started training (to get lean, at the time) 4 years ago. [/quote]

You’re 15, so you started training at 11??? Does anyone else have a problem with this. Sorry, I may not fall in line with the average member of T-Nation, but if my 11 year old kid started training, I’d tell him to stop and use that time to do more homework.

39

Another 125 pound kid who knows everything. Let me guess, you are immortal, deconstructionalist and like playing Asheron’s Call?

On a serious note: You ask for advice and dismiss everything that has been said? Do you really think creatine will make or break your progress? Do you actually believe you have diet and training figured out to a point where there is nothing more to add? Is the “growth spurt” really the only reason for you being skinny (an occurrence which you have no influence on - how convenient)?

40

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
I would normally agree with your position buffalo, but this kid’s posts suggest he doesn’t have the very basic knowlege to even benefit from creatine.

I know he says so, but my feelings, in this case, would be to gain more knowlege and experience in eating/nutrition before supping. His own story: he goes from fat to skinny because of a growth spurt. He hasn’t begun a real program because he’s still reading to learn everything first before he goes to a gym and put it to use. He has read as much in four years as I have my whole life, yet I must once again say that he has yet to put it to use.
In this case, why would you suggest or agree that creatine is a necessary or positive step? I try to analyze each post as their own and give advice based on available info.
Creatine would not be on my to do list here.[/quote]

I guess I kind of take the opposite stance here; since creatine is so cheap and safe, it’d be worth it to use it for the first few months while you get things dialed in, then try dropping it for a little bit to see if it affects a performance drop. I obviously wouldn’t take this stance on most things since there’s some danger associated with a lot of supplements and most are fairly expensive. There’s also enough science behind creatine at this point that it’s a no-brainer sup if you’re a responder. The water weight gain is a good indicator that you’re a responder as well, so you can usually tell in the first week or so; if it doesn’t work, just sell it to a buddy for $10 or whatnot.

I’m also taking the guy on his word that he’s done some decent reading on training since I’d learned enough to put together a decent program at his age, too. It looks to me like he’s just getting defensive when others are attacking him; his writing style and verbiage looks pretty intelligent though.

-Dan