Ryan Kennelly's 1074 Bench Press, New World Record

Training Powerlifting
61

[quote]beeph wrote:
Noone’s dissing gear or the lift… just 1100 lbs seems scary considering that noone can really handle 600-700 if something goes wrong. Yeah fat guys can get a bit more outta gear than skinny guys. But some boxers benefit more from lighter boxing gloves than others too. Main point should be safety. So I think they should add in some more higher tech safety shit beyond spotting when people are putting up inhuman weights. Maybe a forklift under the bar lol.[/quote]

How about suited spotters?

62

[quote]powerhouse reno wrote:
Non- powerlifters talking about gear is pretty funny. There are now saftey bars used whenever there is a monster bench in most feds, if the bar is lost over the face or head the bar crashes down unto two steel bars that are bolted or welded to the upright supports, but not all feds use them; but I am sure that will change soon. Mike Womack droped 821 on his face and got over 20 stitches for his effort.

Just so you know only a small handful of guys get more then a hundred lbs. from a shirt. There are some who get 200+, but these are the very elite of the sport. No one and I mean no one just throws a shirt on and gets 100-200lbs more on their bench. The main reason is they can’t handle the weight. I have a high school kid who legals a raw 405 bench at 240 lbs. I put him in a very good Titan F6 and he could not get 445. He was not used to the big increase in weight and he didn’t have the tri’s to handle the weight. I laugh my butt off every time I hear some non-powerlifter say those shirts are cheating, or I could get another 200lbs. if I used a shirt. Yea, RIGHT!

George [/quote]

Well, I’m a powerlifter and although I understand the gist of what you’re saying, I cannot agree fully. I don’t know the percentage of lifters that get whatever out of their shirts. It’s frankly irrelevant. But lifters that train WITH and FOR their shirts get the results. I’m sure you understand, as you have stated in part, that you cannot just throw a shirt on and get 100lbs. However, that is NOT the context of the thread - we were talking about some very heavy lifts - so by default we’re talking elite efforts. And I’m sorry, I’ve seen big shirt related increases at the lower, sub-elite weights. For crying out loud, I read a guy on elite.fitness talking about not benching 350 raw and closing in on 500. I can close grip 350 raw and you wouldn’t find me dreaming of walking around saying I can bench 500 (because I can’t) but that’s just me.

I’ll have to read the thread again, but I don’t think anyone here claimed gear was “cheating”…but maybe you’re just throwing that out there.

And you say non-powerlifters quite derisively, as if to be a powerlifter was some exalted status. Please. 99% of the people that ask me do not even know what it is. It is not a paying sport and no one is getting rich doing it. I’m all for the pride of the sport and the camraderie I share with other crazy mo fo’s that want to lift max weight, but c’mon…“non-powerlifters”?

63

[quote]Dominator wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
There was a time when the line was somewhat blurred between a geared lift and “assisted”. Now the line is obliterated with lifters getting several hundred pounds from gear. When it gets to that point, as it has, I challenge you to tell me the difference between the current gear and just doing the lift on a smith machine.

The difference between multi-ply,geared lifting and using a Smith machine is about as off as comparison as apples to sausages.

The issue here that people can’t comprehend is that the gear isn’t doing the lifting. I hear the same thing from the single-ply guys too…they always try to add (or subtract, however you want to look at it) what the extra ply will increase. It doesn’t work like that. I can vividly remember my first shirted bench day and my first squat day with briefs…both days were quite deflating. I thought I’d get 150 out of my shirt and I couldn’t even get one rep to touch. I threw on the briefs thinking I’d get 100 and I couldn’t come close to making depth plus they totally threw me out of position and shifted me forward. It takes time to get good at the gear, and really, it’s a totally different lift all together when compared to raw lifting.

My very first bench outing with a double-ply shirt yielded a whopping…you ready for this…15 lb increase. In fact, in the same day, I took off the double-ply, put my single-ply back on, and matched what I did with the double. So what does that tell you…does the gear do the lifting, or is it the person?

I now can lift much more in double-ply, but it’s because I’ve trained in it and made the adaptation and have gotten stronger. The gear is nothing more than a training tool.

The numbers have gotten cartoonish because they’re now separating the apes from the men. The guys that can make the adaptations are getting stronger and stronger while the others complain and try to blame the numbers on the gear.

I think we need to give credit to these guys perfecting their lifts in the gear…it’s not as easy as just throwing it on and getting mass carryover.

[/quote]

Bla bla bla. I wasn’t intending to make an apples to apples comparison, I was being purposefully sarcastic to make a point. And stop pretending you’re informing me “how it works”. I’ve been PL for over 10 years and yes, I’ve used gear. I understand that “you” still have to “move” the weight, but you’re not moving it entirely thru the full ROM. Don’t believe me? Take your shirt or suit off and bench or squat the same weight. If you’re not getting much out of your shirt, you’re just admitting to me that your training is out of wack or you just tried to use a shirt right before a meet - hardly a testament to the experience and authority your post seems to imply.

There is absolutely no seperation between the “apes and the men” as you say. If you want apples to apples, as you seem to be fond of, get these record breakers to ditch the gear and compare to lifts of the greats of not too long ago. Nope. That won’t happen. OK - I’ll do ya another one…just compare the deadlifts of today to those of 25 years ago. Track the progress along side of the squat and bench. Do I need to tell you the result? Until recently, the DL record stood with Gary Heisey for almost 20 years I believe. It was only recently broken in the last few years. Tell me again how gear isn’t moving the weight?

And by the way, the smith machine analogy is NOT that far off. There is a tremendous stabilizing effect to shirts and suits - especially I find the suits. And that is so far unlike a smith machine how?

Gear doesn’t move weight? When the shirts and suits compress, they are storing what? Would that be energy? Hmm, and what happens when that energy is released? Hmmm? Further, the compression to the hips, back and abs does what? Stabilize maybe? Hmm? And to the shoulders? The same thing?

Go back to the drawing board with your arguments. I’m not anti-gear, but to argue that the gear doesn’t make a difference is assinine. Next meet, I’m sure I’ll wear a shirt, unless I compete in a raw meet, which I’d be just as happy to do and frankly, would be more proud of any PR’s set there. But I realize that is MY opinion and the same is not the gospel, nor do I suggest it should be.

Good/Great geared and non-geared lifts are to be applauded and the gear no gear debate is tired. But to pretend there is little difference is just plain uninformed.

64

The first lifter I saw wear a mouthguard was Joey Almodovar of Iron Island Gym (a GREAT 165lber) in the mid 90’s; I believe he wore it when he deadlifted and he had quite a deadlift (600 + if I remember correctly).

65

Body guard,

Hey, I was not putting anyone down, its just that the gym guys outside the world of geared powerlifting have no idea what it takes to compete in these shirts and suits. It is like trying to explain how a Top Fuel dragster goes 0 to 300mph in 4 seconds to a guy who has never been over 120 in car.

Gear lifting is alot different then raw lifting, the groove is different, your breathing has to been controlled and restricted, and you have to learn to use the pressure.(stored energy) The pressure can be the hardest thing to master, because it is not natural to have all that pressure on you body, and the heavier the weight the bigger the pressure. I’ve seen guys with their eyes all blown out with several broken blood vessels, or noses that just explode blood from the pressure. Raw and geared lifting have very little in common these days, but with that being said the top gear guys would almost always to the top raw guys as well. Brain Siders and Andy Bolton the two top SWH’s can both go well over 800 raw in the squat, and Andy has pulled well into the 9’s without gear. In the Bench- Ryan Kennelly, I have seen Ryan in person several times, he routinely does over 600 for 3 raw warming up. I have no doubt that Ryan could go 750 raw if he wanted to. Another guy I’ll bring up is Steve Wong, who is a friend, Steve does 500 for 10 in his warm ups and has done well into the 6’s raw. These guys are both getting 250-300+ out of their shirts, but both of these men are freaky strong raw as well.

George

66

[quote]schultzie wrote:
just a newb question. why does he wear a mouth guard? how is that going to stop 1000lbs from smashing his face to bits?

[/quote]

In addition to protecting your teeth having something to clamp down on just makes everything feel tighter.

67

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
beeph wrote:
As far as safety goes you’d have to think it would be easier to spot 600-700 lbs than 1100 lbs. The gear which was meant for safety reasons has gotten to the point where its counterproductive.

I remember listening to a brilliant road designer or something for safety and he was talking about all the features of this new road with the banking, phosphoresecent lightning, high-tech road material etc make the road sooo safe it allows people to act like idiots and not pay attention to the road… making accidents just as likely as if it were not safe.

He said that the safest car in the world would be a car with a giant metal spike pointed directly at the driver’s heart to relate the dangers to our primitive mind of driving a 2 ton piece of steel at 70 mph.

I’m not dissing gear or the lift, im just questioning the ‘safety’ rationale behind it… nothing else.

I understand your point but we are talking about catastrophic failure. Not just missing a lift.

Let me provide this for perspective. When the Fury first came out people were freaking out b/c lifters were trying to use them like the old blast shirts (put them on once or twice before the meet) had no clue what they were doing and were popping out of the groove about 4" off their chest and throwing the weight over their head and neck. All the sudden, spotting became a much more frightening proposition.

In my mind this was kind of the jump-off point and it has lead to a lot of changes in how benches are spotted. Including mandating the use of spotting bars on IPF platforms, which honestly I think all feds should do.

The point I am trying to make is in a catastrophic incident, independent of weight being handled, your lift is literally in the hands of the spotters. If they miss, you’re done. Wether it’s 300 or 1100.

[/quote]

What is absolutely terrifying is to see the set-up’s guys used to lift on in the 60’s and 70’s. There is a video on Youtube of Don Reinhoudt squatting 900 some pounds in a belt and wraps, and there aren’t even spotters on the stage. The old school IPF guys had to be fucking crazy.

68

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
schultzie wrote:
just a newb question. why does he wear a mouth guard? how is that going to stop 1000lbs from smashing his face to bits?

In addition to protecting your teeth having something to clamp down on just makes everything feel tighter. [/quote]

I vaguely remember our high school trainer trying something out on us; he manually provided resistance simulating a leg extension, asking us to do a rep with mouth open and mouth closed. mouth closed was stronger. that is my memory. try it sometime. i haven’t.

69

well then… today i learned something.

70

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Bla bla bla. I wasn’t intending to make an apples to apples comparison, I was being purposefully sarcastic to make a point. And stop pretending you’re informing me “how it works”. I’ve been PL for over 10 years and yes, I’ve used gear. I understand that “you” still have to “move” the weight, but you’re not moving it entirely thru the full ROM. Don’t believe me? Take your shirt or suit off and bench or squat the same weight. If you’re not getting much out of your shirt, you’re just admitting to me that your training is out of wack or you just tried to use a shirt right before a meet - hardly a testament to the experience and authority your post seems to imply.

There is absolutely no seperation between the “apes and the men” as you say. If you want apples to apples, as you seem to be fond of, get these record breakers to ditch the gear and compare to lifts of the greats of not too long ago. Nope. That won’t happen. OK - I’ll do ya another one…just compare the deadlifts of today to those of 25 years ago. Track the progress along side of the squat and bench. Do I need to tell you the result? Until recently, the DL record stood with Gary Heisey for almost 20 years I believe. It was only recently broken in the last few years. Tell me again how gear isn’t moving the weight?

And by the way, the smith machine analogy is NOT that far off. There is a tremendous stabilizing effect to shirts and suits - especially I find the suits. And that is so far unlike a smith machine how?

Gear doesn’t move weight? When the shirts and suits compress, they are storing what? Would that be energy? Hmm, and what happens when that energy is released? Hmmm? Further, the compression to the hips, back and abs does what? Stabilize maybe? Hmm? And to the shoulders? The same thing?

Go back to the drawing board with your arguments. I’m not anti-gear, but to argue that the gear doesn’t make a difference is assinine. Next meet, I’m sure I’ll wear a shirt, unless I compete in a raw meet, which I’d be just as happy to do and frankly, would be more proud of any PR’s set there. But I realize that is MY opinion and the same is not the gospel, nor do I suggest it should be.

Good/Great geared and non-geared lifts are to be applauded and the gear no gear debate is tired. But to pretend there is little difference is just plain uninformed.[/quote]

I suppose I’m not sure really what your point is…

If you’re a purist and like raw (rah!) lifting, great!

You still won’t convince me that geared lifting automatically adds massive carryover without lots of time and practice.

I suppose that the only thing that we may agree on is that geared lifting has now evolved into something that totally different now than in the past…that’s why you can’t compare eras and achievements.

71

[quote]Donut62 wrote:

What is absolutely terrifying is to see the set-up’s guys used to lift on in the 60’s and 70’s. There is a video on Youtube of Don Reinhoudt squatting 900 some pounds in a belt and wraps, and there aren’t even spotters on the stage. The old school IPF guys had to be fucking crazy.[/quote]

Yeah, I always get a kick out of those old videos. the spotters are standing like 4 feet away on each side with no back spot. Don’t really know what the rationale was behind that. Guess they figured the lifter would dump out and they were there to pick up what was left.

72

lol had to look it up for myself, thats pretty crazy. In the 920 squat I couldn’t even see knee wraps, was that raw-pretty sure it is-? This guy is a freak held the world record in all three lifts at one time.

73

If you look real close Big Don is wearing ace bandages.

George

74

[quote]shizen wrote:

lol had to look it up for myself, thats pretty crazy. In the 920 squat I couldn’t even see knee wraps, was that raw-pretty sure it is-? This guy is a freak held the world record in all three lifts at one time. [/quote]

Powerlifting’s never really been a raw sport. That’s a recent thing.

75

[quote]Hanley wrote:
shizen wrote:

lol had to look it up for myself, thats pretty crazy. In the 920 squat I couldn’t even see knee wraps, was that raw-pretty sure it is-? This guy is a freak held the world record in all three lifts at one time.

Powerlifting’s never really been a raw sport. That’s a recent thing.[/quote]

Fact.

76

[quote]Hanley wrote:
shizen wrote:

lol had to look it up for myself, thats pretty crazy. In the 920 squat I couldn’t even see knee wraps, was that raw-pretty sure it is-? This guy is a freak held the world record in all three lifts at one time.

Powerlifting’s never really been a raw sport. That’s a recent thing.[/quote]

Stuffing tennis balls behind your knee and wearing two pairs of jean shorts three sizes too small isn’t raw? Haha.

Reinhoudt’s squat was belt and wraps. That’s raw enough for me. His 935 and Henry’s 948 were both done in belt and wraps and those are considered the “raw” records.

77

That is right on the money guys, since the very beginning powerlifting has been about moving the most weight possible. In the 70’s they has the “bedsheet nationals”, because guys were using bed sheets and duct tape to tape their knees up. Elbow wraps were also allowed and guys would use bed sheets, rubber strap, ace bandage, and anything else they could find.

Raw is in fact a new thing, it’s funny how the “raw” guys want everyone to think that that’s how powerlifting was, when there was only a few national meets held where guys weren’t using some form of gear; and just about everyone was on the juice. The juice is in fact another form of gear.

George

78

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Hanley wrote:
shizen wrote:

lol had to look it up for myself, thats pretty crazy. In the 920 squat I couldn’t even see knee wraps, was that raw-pretty sure it is-? This guy is a freak held the world record in all three lifts at one time.

Powerlifting’s never really been a raw sport. That’s a recent thing.

Stuffing tennis balls behind your knee and wearing two pairs of jean shorts three sizes too small isn’t raw? Haha.

Reinhoudt’s squat was belt and wraps. That’s raw enough for me. His 935 and Henry’s 948 were both done in belt and wraps and those are considered the “raw” records.[/quote]

Agreed. Belt and wraps is powerlifting. Anything else is just something to argue about.

79

[quote]Dominator wrote:
I suppose I’m not sure really what your point is…

If you’re a purist and like raw (rah!) lifting, great!

You still won’t convince me that geared lifting automatically adds massive carryover without lots of time and practice.

I suppose that the only thing that we may agree on is that geared lifting has now evolved into something that totally different now than in the past…that’s why you can’t compare eras and achievements.

[/quote]

I’m sure there was a point somewhere lol. I don’t think however that I ever advanced the notion that gear automatically adds significant weight to the lifts without the requisite time and training with the gear. It is obvious you have to train with and for it. I don’t and haven’t and of course I’m one of those guys lucky to get 40lbs out of shirt. I do think however a suit is far more easier to incorporate. However, to argue that the numbers haven’t been affected in a significant way is just plain head in the sand obstinant defiance. It is beyond the inability to compare eras - it is the inability to compare lifters given all the feds, different gear and rules. And that is NOT good for the sport. The only rivalries that exist - and rivalries are good for sport - seem to be between federations, not lifters. How do you begin comparing a lifter in a single ply fed to a lifter in an anything goes fed? You can’t. And that’s not good for sport. It has become a circus side show - “see the strongman”…it has devolved from “sport”, in my opinion, because of a number of issues, gear being one of them, different feds and rules the other.

Just my opinion though…I realize this. But I like to think it’s at least an informed opinion, even if you disagree.

80

[quote]powerhouse reno wrote:
That is right on the money guys, since the very beginning powerlifting has been about moving the most weight possible. In the 70’s they has the “bedsheet nationals”, because guys were using bed sheets and duct tape to tape their knees up. Elbow wraps were also allowed and guys would use bed sheets, rubber strap, ace bandage, and anything else they could find.

Raw is in fact a new thing, it’s funny how the “raw” guys want everyone to think that that’s how powerlifting was, when there was only a few national meets held where guys weren’t using some form of gear; and just about everyone was on the juice. The juice is in fact another form of gear.

George

[/quote]

Well, instead of disagreeing with you, I’ll just say that you’ve made the perfect argument against powerlifting as “sport”. And it’s a shame with all the other pedestrian at best so called sports (synchronized swimming et als.) making the Olympics and powerlifting is still left behind and will continue to be.

What a shame that, and I forget his name, cannot stand on a platform in Bejing and show the world a 900 + deadlift. I think a good portion of the world would be transfixed. I also think a good portion of the world would scoff at lifts made with the assistance of canvass, denim, polyester and whatever else their using these days. What a shame that all strength athletes, budding olympic style lifters too, would not have another path to Olympic glory in a strength sport.

Anyway, like others, I’m tired of the argument - it’s futile and was futile long ago. I enjoy the quest to move heavy weight. And I admire guys, even the geared ones, that move the big stuff. That said, I’ll always be far more impressed with someone’s deadlift (and my own) rather than a geared squat or bench press. I just haven’t seen gear significantly help the deadlift and I think that is supported by the records, including Gary Heisey’s standing for 20 or more years.

I know that equipment in various sport has improved over the years. But in no other sport has equipment had such an impact. And that is irrefutable, no matter what side of the geared v. non-geared argument you stand upon. Alphabet federations (I still don’t understand how they proliferate given the lack of money in powerlifting, but they do), drugs, and gear are the three hurdles to “sport” recognition…and powerlifting has not appeared to make any strides toward any official recognition.