football(gridiron) don’t wear pads to a football game and see what happens
2)pole vaulting- compare this to people jumping over a bar
3)iceskating- try it without skates
any sport- shoes!
baseball- the bat is a lever arm that works much better that smacking at it with your hand
and on and on…
[/quote]
If you read Sports Illustrated three weeks (week of July 16) ago about the big hit, several NFL players stated that they wear the LEAST amount of pads and the LIGHTEST and SMALLEST pads that are legal in the NFL.
Holy shit? Someone needs to govern the lifters? Alright, Ill go find Richard Simmons. He knows all about health and fitnes…or wait, maybe inside out man.
How is it not a real bench press? He lays down on the bench, lowers the weight, pauses, and then presses it back up…sounds real enough to me.
This whole argument bears a striking similarity to that between natural and geared bodybuilders…except the only naturals you ever hear bitching about it are the 155 lb guys who just want to blame someone elses apparent hard work on chemicals since it makes their own mediocrity look not so bad.
If you dont like drugs, dont use them. If you dont like bench shirts, dont use one. If you dont want to compete in one and not compete against those in them, then compete in a raw federation.
The man’s equipped bench alone is more than most of the people throwing shit about his shirt’s total…raw OR equipped.
True 'nough. It was a super jacked-up Inzer Phenom from what I hear.
They seem to forget that with a few notabale exceptions (Hoornstra and Cieri jump to mind) the strongest guys in the world are still the strongest guys in the world regarldess of what gear they wear?
And lets face it, why do people get upset cos of the big shirted numbers?
It’s cos it makes their raw numbers look smaller. It’s an ego thing guys. Nothing more. Nothing less.[/quote]
Here goes the raw vs gear debate again.
I’m anti-gear, personally.
I think that the raw numbers are impressive enough as it is. I simply dont see the point of using something to put a few hundred extra pounds on a lift when it just gives people reason to say that you didn’t do all the work yourself.
I’m not trying to take ANYTHING away from these guys. I just dont see the point of inflating the numbers as such. To me, THAT seems more like an ego thing.
I agree that these guys would be the strongest anyway… so whats the point of the shirts?
football(gridiron) don’t wear pads to a football game and see what happens
2)pole vaulting- compare this to people jumping over a bar
3)iceskating- try it without skates
any sport- shoes!
baseball- the bat is a lever arm that works much better that smacking at it with your hand
and on and on…
If you read Sports Illustrated three weeks (week of July 16) ago about the big hit, several NFL players stated that they wear the LEAST amount of pads and the LIGHTEST and SMALLEST pads that are legal in the NFL.
So much for #1 to support your hypothesis.
[/quote]
Yeah, those would be receivers, defensive backs, and anybody who depends on speed. Nobody who relies on heavy, violent contact will wear the least amount of pads. #1 still stands.
Oh…
#6. Swimming- Would records still be breaking if they weren’t allowed to wear leggings/full suits to cut down on drag in the water?
Anyway, back to benching:
A couple posters have said that using so much weight will eventually cause injury because the lifters can’t handle the weight. This happens all the time regardless of weight or equipment. One actor on my set was a competitve bencher and broke his jaw when a spotter interfered with his lift. Check youtube for all the accidents that happen with lifters who bench RAW!!!11!1!
football(gridiron) don’t wear pads to a football game and see what happens
2)pole vaulting- compare this to people jumping over a bar
3)iceskating- try it without skates
any sport- shoes!
baseball- the bat is a lever arm that works much better that smacking at it with your hand
and on and on…
If you read Sports Illustrated three weeks (week of July 16) ago about the big hit, several NFL players stated that they wear the LEAST amount of pads and the LIGHTEST and SMALLEST pads that are legal in the NFL.
So much for #1 to support your hypothesis.
[/quote]
This list is a joke. The difference between these sports and power lifting are obvious. None of the sports mentioned create such a massive difference between players using different types of equipment.
You cant win a football game because you wear better pads or win at ice skating because you have better skates. But if you give some of these top level guys different shirts the shirts they wear would affect which guy would bench more.
Benching Raw and shirted are two entirely different things and should not be compared in my opinion.
I think the ideal solution would be to enforce everyone to wear a shirt that protected the power lifter while providing the minimum amount of assistance on the lift as possible.
Lifting 1036lb even with a shirt is still a massive achievement. I am however much more impressed by this guys raw lifts. I think the sport should focus on improving these.
Why do y’all (raw guys) seriously care? They are lifting weights, not curing cancer or fighting a war to the death.
If you had the biggest raw bench, I could understand why you might be pissed. But I doubt anyone here is within 200lbs of the highest raw bench, so why do you care if it is called a bench press, pirhoutte, backspin or whatever.
I am heavily tattooed and in the tattoo world there is a saying that is fitting in this context:
The difference between tattooed people and non-tattooed people is that tattooed people don’t care if you don’t have tattoos.
Geared lifters don’t care if you want to lift raw. Strong is strong, and we understand that. Only raw lifters say geared lifters should not be allowed to lift that way.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
As gay and out of hand as equipped lifting is, that was impressive. I found his 405 for 20 to be even more impressive. I’d be willing to bet 95%+ of the people on this forum can’t get it for a raw single, and he did 20. The really nutty part is he had more in him, he just stopped.[/quote]
Whiteflash, shizen. Why does this surprise you? Did you honestly think that Ryan was some weakling who magically is able to put up a thousand pounds with a shirt on? this is the attitude that I find curious.
People think that putting on a shirt automatically adds a couple hundred pounds to your bench, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. Its takes years of practice to build the top end strength necessary to even hold the extra weight and a tremendous amount of strain and focus to bring the bar through the range of motion. Benching in a shirt is far more difficult and technical than benching raw.
Shirted benching is a skill, plain a simple. And sensible people respect that skill for what it is.
Benching Raw and shirted are two entirely different things and should not be compared in my opinion.
[/quote]
Thats why they dont compare them. In case you havent been around powerlifting much, its usually referred to as a raw bench or an equpiied or shirted bench. No one is hiding a bench shirt under a hoodie and trying to pass it off as raw.
[quote]I think that the raw numbers are impressive enough as it is. I simply dont see the point of using something to put a few hundred extra pounds on a lift when it just gives people reason to say that you didn’t do all the work yourself.
I’m not trying to take ANYTHING away from these guys. I just dont see the point of inflating the numbers as such. To me, THAT seems more like an ego thing.
I agree that these guys would be the strongest anyway… so whats the point of the shirts?[/quote]
so then why do we have 4 pages now of people bitching about how a shirted bench press, even if it is a half ton doesnt count. Sure sounds like someones trying to take something away from this guy.
Mattwray and Van have made the two most sensible statements in this thread and everything else has been
Whats this nonsense regarding its not a bench press? The only true proponents of bench pressing are powerlifters. The aim of which is too lift the most weight within the given rules.
You may not like the idea of equipped lifting, you may not be able to get your head round why people would use equipment to vastly enhance their competetive lifts but that is powerlifting (majority) at the moment. You may hate it, but others love it and get a big kick from doing it. It’s not like they pretend they aint wearing equipment just too fool the average joe. They aint coming round you gym and giving you grief are they?
If you don’t like it then start another thread and bitch away lol!
There are many sports that I do not like. But as I have nothing to do with em I won’t waste my energy moaning on about them on the internet. There is not problem with those that have an interest and compete in powerlifting to have a debate regarding the current direction some feds have gone. I personally don’t care what particular style of lifting others won’t to do. It don’t make my lifts any smaller or bigger!
By the way I lift unequipped. I don’t hear many guys at meets unequipped or equipped moaning on about this. Their too busy having a good time and lifting hard!
this is getting ridiculous. The man just set a world record and all people are doing are trying to do is argue over bench shirts. If you don’t like them then go bench raw. Christ.
Whats this nonsense regarding its not a bench press? The only true proponents of bench pressing are powerlifters. The aim of which is too lift the most weight within the given rules.
You may not like the idea of equipped lifting, you may not be able to get your head round why people would use equipment to vastly enhance their competetive lifts but that is powerlifting (majority) at the moment. You may hate it, but others love it and get a big kick from doing it. It’s not like they pretend they aint wearing equipment just too fool the average joe. They aint coming round you gym and giving you grief are they?
If you don’t like it then start another thread and bitch away lol!
There are many sports that I do not like. But as I have nothing to do with em I won’t waste my energy moaning on about them on the internet. There is not problem with those that have an interest and compete in powerlifting to have a debate regarding the current direction some feds have gone. I personally don’t care what particular style of lifting others won’t to do. It don’t make my lifts any smaller or bigger!
By the way I lift unequipped. I don’t hear many guys at meets unequipped or equipped moaning on about this. Their too busy having a good time and lifting hard!
[quote]mattwray wrote:
Why do y’all (raw guys) seriously care? They are lifting weights, not curing cancer or fighting a war to the death.
If you had the biggest raw bench, I could understand why you might be pissed. But I doubt anyone here is within 200lbs of the highest raw bench, so why do you care if it is called a bench press, pirhoutte, backspin or whatever.
I am heavily tattooed and in the tattoo world there is a saying that is fitting in this context:
The difference between tattooed people and non-tattooed people is that tattooed people don’t care if you don’t have tattoos.
Geared lifters don’t care if you want to lift raw. Strong is strong, and we understand that. Only raw lifters say geared lifters should not be allowed to lift that way.
This argument is so overdone.
[/quote]
Awesome post.
Seriously, why the the so-called raw, err, excuse me – I mean RAAAWWWWWWW fans care? Do any of you even support powerlifting in any way? Attend meets? Referee?
And don’t give me this shit that it’s not a bench press just because it’s not what you do in the gym. It IS a bench press. It’s more of a bench press than what you do in the gym.
It is done with rules in place and in front of officials, unlike some of the garbage “bench presses” that take place in gyms across the globe. In fact, I’m going to start putting quotes around any “bench press” not done in a competition setting and claim that it’s not a real lift.
[quote]IainK wrote:
I don’t hear many guys at meets unequipped or equipped moaning on about this. Their too busy having a good time and lifting hard!
[/quote]
That’s the key. I think most of the people complaining are just pretend fans and only have a slight interest in the sport. More dedicated fans will either respect it, appreciate it, or take it for what it is, regardless of their stance on gear.
[quote]RJ24 wrote:
The equivalent of spikes in powerlifting is the bar, not the shirt. [/quote]
No. You don’t need spikes for running – hell, you don’t even need shoes, but you do need a bar to bench press. Your analogy fails.
[quote]
The bench shirts used by the very top bench pressers increase their performance by 50%. No other aid in any other sport does so much for the athlete.[/quote] What about aluminum bats? Some batter’s home run totals have doubled with the use of aluminum bats. Seems to me that’s a little more than 50%.
The world record in the pole vault has increased about 50% over the course of about 75 years. Ya think that might have anything to do with better pole technology?
The bottom line is a bench shirt helps with the actual motion of the press, which for that exercise is everything. It doesnt help with grip, wrist stability etc… It just makes the exercise much much easier. You are right in that spikes probably increase 100 yard dash times. If your example was to work it would mean someone without spikes would run 8 seconds slower than if they had them on.
Nothing, in any sport makes as big of a difference as a bench shirt. And baseball bats dont count because they are an integral part of the game. You cant play baseball without a bat. You can and should bench press without a bench shirt. In a sport that you should be proud of what your body can do its the ultimate load of crap to use a shirt.