[quote]Koing wrote:
I think the main thing with good jumpers with ‘medicore’ squats is that they DO NOT SQUAT THAT OFTEN!
I’m willing to bet, if they did they would get there % up. BUT instead they are busy jumping in their sports etc.
I also read that every extra 2lbs of weight/ fat your carrying will shorten your vertical by at least 0.5cm. I REALLY can’t remember where I read this, but has somebody else read it also?
[quote]arnoud verschoor wrote:
Koing wrote:
I think the main thing with good jumpers with ‘medicore’ squats is that they DO NOT SQUAT THAT OFTEN!
I’m willing to bet, if they did they would get there % up. BUT instead they are busy jumping in their sports etc.
I also read that every extra 2lbs of weight/ fat your carrying will shorten your vertical by at least 0.5cm. I REALLY can’t remember where I read this, but has somebody else read it also?
Kadour Ziani is 5’9, pretty dam skinny! He has an OBSCENE vertical jump. He has practiced 10000’s of times but is also a freak of nature…
For real? I’m about 10 kg’s overweight, need to drop some flab, that gives some extra motivation!
[/quote]
Yes.
I can’t remember where I read it but it would be true. Fat for all intents and purposes is useless for jumping. It is like jumping with extra weight. NOW think if you didn’t have that 5-10lbs of fat your A LOT lighter and your relative strength is higher = you jump higher!
Look at all the really good vertical jumpers. They are all LEAN guys. Sure you get a few that are carrying fat BUT THEY ARE DEFINATELY THE EXCEPTION and NOT THE RULE! Shane Hammon 5’10, ~ 150kg SLAM DUNKS! BEAST!
Nobody ever mentions this but the way you squat also effects your jump. For example two athletes with similar body types,muscle fiber, height ect and have them squat. Athlete 1 starts with a knee bend, so his squat is going to be QUAD dominent. Athlete 2 starts his squat hips and butt out first.
Almost gaurantee that if this is the technique that these two have been using for at least a year, athlete 1 is going to be quad dominent and athlete 2 is going to be balanced. The prime mover for vertical jump are the hamstrings and if the the athlete is quad dominent it will mess his jump up because they are opposite muscles.
One has to contract while the relaxes, this isnt saying quads are not important but if there is an imbalance, vertical jump will suffer. And if you squat 2x your body weight and dont have a vertical of at least 20in you might want to think about how you squat and look if you have an imbalance between your quads and hamstrings.
i’m sorry but quads Are the primary movers in jumping (about equal to your butt), not your hamstrings…especially in a standing 2 foot-and we’ve probably all seen instances where this is the case (quad dominant with big verticals) -one of the benefits of having really strong hamstrings in jumping is they wont inhibit your Quads and let you use your quads at full potential (body wont hold back to avoid injury)
I’ve read before on elitefts.com that quads contribute about 5% to jumping ability, according to what I read glutes and hamstrings are by far the most important muscles recruited in jumping.
first of all, what kind of jump are we talking about? (i’m talking about standing 2 foot vertical, not that it probably matters if your serioulsy only saying 5%, as in a running 1footed takeoff it should be about equally important(edited for clarity)-importance of quads vs hams, and as i mentioned before, one of the best roles of the hams are so they arnt inhibitating the quads of their full potential, an obviously have more role in running 1 legged jumps)), second of all-show me the study, because that is false
(agreeing that glutes are Very important-regardless of 1 or 2 foot takeoff, standing or running)
-not very scientific in itself, but this is a reference point from the vertical jump bible (standing 2 foot)
[quote]laxccm wrote:
I’ve read before on elitefts.com that quads contribute about 5% to jumping ability, according to what I read glutes and hamstrings are by far the most important muscles recruited in jumping.[/quote]
I like to see someone with a torn quad only jump 5% less.
i havent really been following here and will admit im a lot younger than most the people here but heres my input.
strength work greatly helps 2 foot vertical jump. i went from getting about 3/4 net or so off of 2 feet on a bball hoop to hitting a ball off the “lip” where the rim touches the back board while basically doing no speed work. i probably boosted my squat from about BW to 2x BW or so.
I find that single leg jumping is almost literally not affected by weight work. its more reactive/speed dominant. i say this because even though my 2 foot jump went up, my 1 foot jump went up like 1-2 inches.
Although i said that about single leg above, i think that this statement is somewhat contradictory. Single leg jumping has a very big “skill” factor (at least to me). i remember i used to be able to take a few steps and then BOOM! explode up. now its very hard to get into a rhythm for single leg jumping. this may actually be the reason why my single leg jump hasnt increased much- because my technique/timing went way down.
In terms of percentage each muscle contributes, although Kelley is a very reputable source, im going to have to disagree, but what do i know? i feel like jumping isnt really “this muscle does this %” the glutes/hams/quads all help to generate power, while the calves transfer the power from the ground to the body making you jump. what is something to mention though is that calf raising 1000 lbs isnt super important if you cant “turn on” all the power from the quads/hams/glues in a short amount of time. This actually ties in with total body speed i guess. if your super strong but cant turn the muscles on and synchronize them to all work together, you wont jump that high, especially if youre heavy.
Another thing to mention is body structure. generally speaking, having high cut calves is very beneficial, and people with smaller overall frames tend to jump the highest.
not saying this has anything to do with anything but:
i’m a two footed jumper, i plant my feet left-right, the circumference of the area just above my patella on my left leg is 0.75 inches thicker them my right leg. this is mostly due to the VMO being much bigger, it’s visibly obvious. not saying this is from all the jump training i do, but, when i’m practicing some dunk stuff, i might do 40-60 maximum jump attempts, mostly with that left-right foot plant style… i personally think it has alot to do with my jumping.
quads are extremely important, as well glutes/hamstrings/skill & technique/achilles flexibility/SEC&SSC/rate of force development etc when it comes to those running verts.
a little more motivation for the jumping fans (these guys motivated me to add ~7+ inches on my running vert in 3 months):
[quote]brian.m wrote:
i’m sorry but quads Are the primary movers in jumping (about equal to your butt), not your hamstrings…especially in a standing 2 foot-and we’ve probably all seen instances where this is the case (quad dominant with big verticals) -one of the benefits of having really strong hamstrings in jumping is they wont inhibit your Quads and let you use your quads at full potential (body wont hold back to avoid injury)[/quote]
This is completely false. The quads have little bearing on a great vertical jump. They merely come along for the ride the posterior chain provides. Knee extension is not essential for jumping, hip extension is.
[quote]Chewie wrote:
I’m as flatfooted as a duck and my calves are as tight as a midget virgin. This means I can barely jump over a tic tac.
I can oly squat close to 2xBW. I see that strength has little to do with your vertical. As others have said, it has more to do with leverages, build, etc. [/quote]
With other things being equal (body comp, movement efficiency, body structure, etc.) who is going to jump higher, a person who can apply 400 pounds of force to the ground (say in the form of a squat) or a person who can apply 200 pounds of force to the ground?
This is simply an excuse. What does having tight calves have to do with a bad jump? Try jumping with no knee bend, ala only using your calves and feet…are they really that essential to jumping?
Body structure is highly overrated also. Carl Lewis PERFECT grey hound structured body for sprinting didn’t stop Ben Johnson’s pit bull structure from destroying Lewis in the 100m.
[quote]Desideratus15 wrote:
brian.m wrote:
i’m sorry but quads Are the primary movers in jumping (about equal to your butt), not your hamstrings…especially in a standing 2 foot-and we’ve probably all seen instances where this is the case (quad dominant with big verticals) -one of the benefits of having really strong hamstrings in jumping is they wont inhibit your Quads and let you use your quads at full potential (body wont hold back to avoid injury)
This is completely false. The quads have little bearing on a great vertical jump. They merely come along for the ride the posterior chain provides. Knee extension is not essential for jumping, hip extension is. [/quote]
I’d like to quote Hanley on this one.
My point is that hip extension has a bigger effect, but nobody jumps without extending the knee.
[quote]undeadlift wrote:
Desideratus15 wrote:
brian.m wrote:
i’m sorry but quads Are the primary movers in jumping (about equal to your butt), not your hamstrings…especially in a standing 2 foot-and we’ve probably all seen instances where this is the case (quad dominant with big verticals) -one of the benefits of having really strong hamstrings in jumping is they wont inhibit your Quads and let you use your quads at full potential (body wont hold back to avoid injury)
This is completely false. The quads have little bearing on a great vertical jump. They merely come along for the ride the posterior chain provides. Knee extension is not essential for jumping, hip extension is.
I’d like to quote Hanley on this one.
I like to see someone with a torn quad only jump 5% less.
My point is that hip extension has a bigger effect, but nobody jumps without extending the knee.[/quote]
Ok show me an example of a powerlifter with a torn biceps tendon have NO trouble performing they’re bench work outs even though the biceps is not only not a prime mover in the bench, it is a non existant mover.
You can’t use injuries to determine how much a muscle group contributes to a movement.
