Powerlifting Approach Useless

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
The idea that you HAVE to train 4-7 times per week in order to get big is something I have yet to figure out. What about the people putting on size using Wendler’s program? What about all of those 5x5 guys? What about Defranco’s program? What about Dante’s guys who are not only getting big, but getting big as FUCK in very short periods of time?
[/quote]

Most people who actually got to 300 fucking pounds trained more than 3 times a week at some point in their lifting career… I never said you can’t make gains on 3x a week, however usually if someone is advanced and is training at this frequency that is not the same as someone with less experience doing the same, especially if the goal is to get to such a large size.

Things like DC is for advanced lifters, who have probably put in the time with more days a week. Defranco’s trainees are also a lot of conditioning and other demanding workouts besides the lifting itself. 5x5 is not (as far as I know) something where people get to 300 pounds on that exclusively.

I never mentioned steroids.

I actually haven’t been referring to any authors. I have read posts by Professor x and other large people here who have said that USUALLY a lifter has trained more than 3x a week for a distinct time in his career to get to something as massive as 300lb. And if at that advanced level he is now training less frequently, he was not doing so in the past and it is not the same because his overall intensity is now higher.

I am not trying to make blanket statements like “you cannot get to 300lb training 3x a week and this man here is lieing if he says otherwise”.
I was generally surprised that he has gained 100lb of size from training at that frequency. It obviously has worked for him and Im not doubting it will work well for others. YES I know the importance of workout intensity. YES I know the importance of recovery.

Training 3x a week can become inpractical unless you have no problem with your workouts stretching for 2 hrs. And it seems his training routine has some long days.

22

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
a lot of nothing[/quote]

Your initial post implied that it was infeasible that he got that big training 3x a week.

Im not really sure what the point of your most recent post was, except to try to sidestep your initial assertion.

23

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Der Candy wrote:
a lot of nothing

Your initial post implied that it was infeasible that he got that big training 3x a week.

Im not really sure what the point of your most recent post was, except to try to sidestep your initial assertion.[/quote]

I ‘implied’ that I thought it was surprising that he got to 300lb training 3x a week from 195 to 300lb. You attempted to turn this into an argument by acting as if I said it was impossible to gain anything from training 3x a week.

If you think I wrote ‘a lot of nothing’, then I am sorry to dissapoint you with an apparent lack of loose ends for you to whip up another condescending post with. Not everyone is looking for you to try and shit on them.

24

On smolov I’m only training 3 times a week and making good gains.

25

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Stronghold wrote:

I ‘implied’ that I thought it was surprising that he got to 300lb training 3x a week from 195 to 300lb. You attempted to turn this into an argument by acting as if I said it was impossible to gain anything from training 3x a week.

If you think I wrote ‘a lot of nothing’, then I am sorry to dissapoint you with an apparent lack of loose ends for you to whip up another condescending post with. Not everyone is looking for you to try and shit on them. [/quote]

You are surprised that he went from 195 to 300 training 3x a week…implying that that is not an effective way to gain a great deal of weight.

Your post was a lot of nothing. All you did was try to sidestep the idiocy of your initial comment.

26

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Der Candy wrote:
Stronghold wrote:

I ‘implied’ that I thought it was surprising that he got to 300lb training 3x a week from 195 to 300lb. You attempted to turn this into an argument by acting as if I said it was impossible to gain anything from training 3x a week.

If you think I wrote ‘a lot of nothing’, then I am sorry to dissapoint you with an apparent lack of loose ends for you to whip up another condescending post with. Not everyone is looking for you to try and shit on them.

You are surprised that he went from 195 to 300 training 3x a week…implying that that is not an effective way to gain a great deal of weight.

Your post was a lot of nothing. All you did was try to sidestep the idiocy of your initial comment.[/quote]

What? I explained in my post why I made that original comment. How os that side-stepping?

Again, MOST lifters who have gotten to 300lb have not trained only 3x a week from 190lb all the way to 300. i.e, nearly their entire serious lifting career. Considering this fact, I was surprised that he had achieved what he has training that way. Since when is being surprised at something out of the norm synonimous with idiocy?

27

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Der Candy wrote:
Stronghold wrote:

I ‘implied’ that I thought it was surprising that he got to 300lb training 3x a week from 195 to 300lb. You attempted to turn this into an argument by acting as if I said it was impossible to gain anything from training 3x a week.

If you think I wrote ‘a lot of nothing’, then I am sorry to dissapoint you with an apparent lack of loose ends for you to whip up another condescending post with. Not everyone is looking for you to try and shit on them.

You are surprised that he went from 195 to 300 training 3x a week…implying that that is not an effective way to gain a great deal of weight.

Your post was a lot of nothing. All you did was try to sidestep the idiocy of your initial comment.

What? I explained in my post why I made that original comment. How os that side-stepping?

Again, MOST lifters who have gotten to 300lb have not trained only 3x a week from 190lb all the way to 300. i.e, nearly their entire serious lifting career. Considering this fact, I was surprised that he had achieved what he has training that way. Since when is being surprised at something out of the norm synonimous with idiocy? [/quote]

Thats because those 300lb guys you are talking about are bodybuilders, if you train body building you have to get your ass to the gym more because you need to work on a lot of things powerlifters dont.

28

people are uneducated because they never take it as far as to try things out on themselves.

people are reluctant to do anything but copy article after article and routine after routine in order to find what magically works. then all of a sudden some guy down the street is bigger than you and he starts talking about these tests he learned about in untrained subjects, and then you go back home and add that to your routine thinking its going to do something for you only not to consider the volume and throw off your recovery.

unfortunately everything works, and for that reason people never realize their true potential because they are never in tune with their own bodies, they are so infatuated with trainers, ‘x y z’ protocol , and hilarious oppinions (poliquin anyone? i mean honestly this guy has GREAT points, but he is so arrogant at times it is astounding) that after years of training they have yet to even use, or make a SOLID routine that involves their own GENETIC abilities, recovery, and is in tune with sound research that backs up their justification for these routines.

then they ask why? take steroids, and join the side of cheaters.
oh well.

good luck.

29

[quote]cutrawnatural wrote:
people are uneducated because they never take it as far as to try things out on themselves.

people are reluctant to do anything but copy article after article and routine after routine in order to find what magically works. then all of a sudden some guy down the street is bigger than you and he starts talking about these tests he learned about in untrained subjects,

and then you go back home and add that to your routine thinking its going to do something for you only not to consider the volume and throw off your recovery.

unfortunately everything works, and for that reason people never realize their true potential because they are never in tune with their own bodies, they are so infatuated with trainers, ‘x y z’ protocol , and hilarious oppinions (poliquin anyone?

i mean honestly this guy has GREAT points, but he is so arrogant at times it is astounding) that after years of training they have yet to even use, or make a SOLID routine that involves their own GENETIC abilities, recovery, and is in tune with sound research that backs up their justification for these routines.

then they ask why? take steroids, and join the side of cheaters.
oh well.

good luck.[/quote]

This is a good post up until the last part.

30

and may i add, the heavier the weight lifted, the longer time under tension, and the more reps is always going to create more muscle, powerlifters overemphasize areas that create more ‘bang for your buck’ workouts.
most dont care about biceps, and quads, and could give a shit about doing 20 rep squats.

but what they do have is 800 lbs of heavy ass weight on their back on a consistent basis, and if anyone doubts that 1-5rm training in 3-6 week cycles wont help build muscle, then well, try it. and trust me, intensity is HUGE in terms of muscle gain, and powerlifters are very very intense.

ANYDAY I would say a guy with a great powerlifting backround GETTING INTO BODYBUILDING would be MUCH MORE SUCCESSFUL in the LONG RUN than any lifelong bodybuilder, hands down.

also may i add that the the stronger you get, the heavier the weihgts you can lift for reps, i think thats the most important thing to take from here.

i used to have a hard time benching 315 x 1, so i did some strength work, got my bench up to 405 (sometime ago) but have recently repped 315 x 10, i dont know what my raw flat bench is now ( i only max it out every 6-8 weeks) but it will be higher than 405.

now for being natural, and 19 years old, your talking to a 6 ft 240 lb athlete with well over a 30 inch vertical, no cheating necessary, just good hard work.

faith in god, good honest reality, and willingness to succeed always trumps weak minded people.

p’c

31

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
cutrawnatural wrote:
people are uneducated because they never take it as far as to try things out on themselves.

people are reluctant to do anything but copy article after article and routine after routine in order to find what magically works. then all of a sudden some guy down the street is bigger than you and he starts talking about these tests he learned about in untrained subjects,

and then you go back home and add that to your routine thinking its going to do something for you only not to consider the volume and throw off your recovery.

unfortunately everything works, and for that reason people never realize their true potential because they are never in tune with their own bodies, they are so infatuated with trainers, ‘x y z’ protocol , and hilarious oppinions (poliquin anyone?

i mean honestly this guy has GREAT points, but he is so arrogant at times it is astounding) that after years of training they have yet to even use, or make a SOLID routine that involves their own GENETIC abilities, recovery, and is in tune with sound research that backs up their justification for these routines.

then they ask why? take steroids, and join the side of cheaters.
oh well.

good luck.

This is a good post up until the last part.[/quote]

steroids to me are for guineas.
test subjects, just for amusement imo. look at mr olympia, sure their big, but thats it, oooo, awwww.

you know why?
ive met maybe one guy who could bench 450 naturally before he took steroids. and he mightve been lying

does it matter how mcuh you bench before you take steroids? no.

but let me tell you something, people do not see how far they can take themselves before they take roids, and let me emphasize why this is important.

they sell themselves short, both mentally and physically, because they dont know their bodies well enough, and i dont care what any steroid taker says, the best natural athletes are always stronger in the mind.

and then the worst thing is? they abuse the drug!

at westside, those guys are driven by each other, and the environment, the only reason these guys on steroids are considered the strongest men in the world among other steroid takers (thats what profesional powerlifting is nowadays) is due to the fact that they have coaching, and a worthwhile environment, me, de, re, wutever the fuck ‘e’. i really dont care about a bunch of methods, i use them, but whatever, i would take a great environment anyday over some obviously ‘lets make these methods sound more technical than they really are’ methods.

isnt it obvious that if you squat a weight at a very slow pace, or get used to picking up heavy amounts of shit that its going to slow you down if you never do some type of explosive work?

every trainer contradicts themselves, louie simmmons contradicts himself.
you should read his articles.

the worst thing about the fitness world is this…

trainers …are good… but i dont think a trainer can train someone better than an individual who applies himself to his work. instead of sitting in a gym for an hour for the next 60 years of his life 3 days a week talking about what he saw some other guy do and jacking off to bicep curls, maybe you should buy some books from some of the more reknowned strength coaches, and combine that with some of the more reknowned bodybuilding coaches, and finish it off with a sprinkle of internet research.

steroids…are acceptable, but why dont you test how far you can go before you inflate your numbers…

see to me, steroid people are their own little universe, among cheaters, they have a ranking; they can be the best of the best. but among the best natural athletes, they are always one step behind, not only in sports, but in life, and in the long run, they lack; both physically and mentally. :wink:

p’c

32

[quote]cutrawnatural wrote:
a
now for being natural, and 19 years old, your talking to a 6 ft 240 lb athlete with well over a 30 inch vertical, no cheating necessary, just good hard work.

faith in god, good honest reality, and willingness to succeed always trumps weak minded people.

p’c

[/quote]

My issue was with you assuming that those using steroids were “cheating”. What if I compete in a federation that has no rules against steroids usage? Is that still cheating? Im sure you have used caffiene or some similar supplement before to benefit your lifting. Under the same logic, thats also cheating.

People who take steroids and succeed do so because they worked hard while taking gear. Assuming that popping some pills or a weekly injection is going to make up for a lack of hard work is the biggest problem I have with people touting their natural status all over the place.

Im not sure if you are implying that those who use are weak minded or not, but if you are then that could not be farther from the truth. Gear is a tool, not a shortcut. Those who have chosen to use have decided that they are willing to go AS FAR as necessary in order to be the best. To me, that is the epitome of mental toughness.

33

[quote]cutrawnatural wrote:

bullshit

[/quote]

Kid, you have a lot to learn.

34

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
cutrawnatural wrote:
a
now for being natural, and 19 years old, your talking to a 6 ft 240 lb athlete with well over a 30 inch vertical, no cheating necessary, just good hard work.

faith in god, good honest reality, and willingness to succeed always trumps weak minded people.

p’c

My issue was with you assuming that those using steroids were “cheating”. What if I compete in a federation that has no rules against steroids usage? Is that still cheating? Im sure you have used caffiene or some similar supplement before to benefit your lifting. Under the same logic, thats also cheating.

People who take steroids and succeed do so because they worked hard while taking gear. Assuming that popping some pills or a weekly injection is going to make up for a lack of hard work is the biggest problem I have with people touting their natural status all over the place.

Im not sure if you are implying that those who use are weak minded or not, but if you are then that could not be farther from the truth. Gear is a tool, not a shortcut. Those who have chosen to use have decided that they are willing to go AS FAR as necessary in order to be the best. To me, that is the epitome of mental toughness.[/quote]

among steroid users, steroids are ok.

among steroid users compared to some of the greatest natural athletes? steroids are a joke.

im not saying that people who take steroids dont have mental toughness, im saying that people who take steroids dont have a mind like the person who made it without.

35

Why did I ever post that link on T-Nation…

36

[quote]cutrawnatural wrote:

among steroid users, steroids are ok.

among steroid users compared to some of the greatest natural athletes? steroids are a joke.

im not saying that people who take steroids dont have mental toughness, im saying that people who take steroids dont have a mind like the person who made it without.

[/quote]

You would be surprised about how many of those “greatest natural athletes” are actually using.

I hold the guy who used every tool at his disposal to go farther than everyone else (natural and enhanced both) higher than the one who used his natural status as a copout and a means of rectifying the fact that the other guy was better, gear or not.

37

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
cutrawnatural wrote:

bullshit

Kid, you have a lot to learn.[/quote]

you know whats funny? how i recently saw all these records in lifting that are among natural federations in the teenage, and 18-19 age groups, and barely if any world record powerlifters in untested federations have their names on the boards. isnt that doing a disservice to the poeple who dont cheat?
the kids who broke those records only to retire because as you get older you have to roll with a bunch of guys doping?

these so called greats never tried to see how far they could go naturally.

and i have something to learn? i admit, i do.
but ill let god teach me, and everyone has something to learn may i add, if only others would listen.

if i gave you a life story on who i am, and asked you for respect, you most certainly would give it.

if i cared, i would be doing a disservice to god, for its not about seeking mans praise, its about seeking gods.

let me leave you with my favorite quote

‘most people would rather be ruined by praise, then saved by criticism’

38

look steroids are steroids.
to me they are their own little colony of people.

i respect them to an extent.
but i dont respect natural guys who are on steroids and deny it, those are the WORST.

and i dont respect weak minded people and ever steroid taker ive ever met was weak minded, and never trained NEARLY as hard as me.

39

and let me be honest, half the people i met among my age group are college kids looking to get a quick fix and look at me like an alien when im squatting 600 for reps and taking 275 to failure.

and most of them cant even touch my weights, or my size, let alone know how to.

they ussually peak around 210 lbs, look bloated, and do some shitty cutting.

40

[quote]cutrawnatural wrote:
look steroids are steroids.
to me they are their own little colony of people.

i respect them to an extent.
but i dont respect natural guys who are on steroids and deny it, those are the WORST.

and i dont respect weak minded people and ever steroid taker ive ever met was weak minded, and never trained NEARLY as hard as me.

[/quote]

Youve never met a multiple world record holder.

Did you really just say that it was ironic that untested multiply wr holders dont hold records in tested single ply federations? I know of no untested single ply federations and of no tested multiply federations. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Thats kind of like wondering why the Packers havent won a world series yet.