I’m inclined to listen to Max on this stuff. I took his rec and got a Merkur razor and love it. Old school, simple.
haha glad you like it Ponce, I buy my double sided razors on Ebay, I get a year’s worth for like 7-8 bucks, can’t beat that for shit.
I am currently leaning out for a trip to Vegas on Memorial Day, basically eating green veggies as only source of carbs, re-carbing up with either quinoa, yam, oatmeal, something like that. My supps list is Fenuplex, Insulinomics, Fish Oil, Matcha Green Tea, Raw Organic Cacao Nibs (this is a food more than it being a supplement.) I have some HOT-ROX which I use on days where I feel sluggish.
Doing sprint intervals as well as keeping rest periods low. Despite having a lower carb approach, my recovery is unreal. I can recover in less than 30 secs when doing a 1 minute sprint at a very high intensity.
So far, things have leaned out nicely, my subscap area (which I think shows insulin sensitivity) is much better, triceps showing horseshoe clearly now, abs are showing but not as much as I like. Lower back is tighter and less to pinch (from the Insulinomics I am betting). My prob areas are love handles and glutes, interesting how digestive issues (which I have TONS of) are related to estrogen probs, it makes sense to me now. Legs are vascular, veins showing in quads, calves, and hamstrings are pretty lean (in my standards.) The DIM + Cal D Gluc protocol, with pounding the hell out of organic steamed broccoli REALLY got my hamstrings and glutes leaner. But, I must say this, it wasn’t til I upped the DIM +CDG to 2 caps 3 times a day with meals where I REALLY noticed this. It was almost freakish how every few days, I could both see and feel my legs get leaner.
As much as I get pissed, I still try to keep in mind that I float between 220-225 lbs, which is not entirely small. Not huge either, but not runt size.
I have an alumni football game in 2 weeks, I am busting serious ass right now to get ready, I know I will have a bulls-eye on me. I already have guys talking shit, about how they want to take out the only guy from my high school to go to a D1 school, let alone USC. So I figure to show up 220ish circa 10% bodyfat. Seeing how I will be playing against guys in their late 30’s, most of which are fucking blobs (the typical American guy in his late 30’s), I should have no problem.
Hey guys
Got my money issues sorted out and even found a few possible athletic donations and maybe even an actual sponsor. So i got my practitioner to go ahead and order the estrogen protocol (DIM, cal-D and the fiber supplements).
It should be here by the time I see him on the 16th so ill start on that day. I got a pretty decent set of quads on me being a weightlifter so im looking forward to actually seeing them a little more. Be interesting to see how my pants fit once i get my ghetto booty shrunk 
I also believe that the protocol is supposed to have a pretty good effect on the pectoral and to a lesser degree, my triceps site. Also lower estrogen usually means that your body can use/produce more testosterone which im assuming would help in recovery and strength to a degree. I have also been told that high estrogen can sometimes cause joint pain.
Pretty excited to start!
Up-dates on Monday the 16th
Don’t want to highjack but at the same time do not want to create a whole new thread.
So, what supplements or what is done form someone with large amounts of fat subscapular, suprailliac, calf, and umbilical?
For me at least these sites carry the most body fat. My chest pinch is higher than my triceps. Quad and hamstring is low but still up there. I’m more concerned with my waist and back.
Note: this is from pinching with my fingers as I don’t have proper equipment. However, I did get a body composition done in September and I was about ~9-11% BF and those sites I just mentioned above were always higher. I would suspect my BF NOW to be a little higher.
EDIT: I take this every morning
1 tablet 50mg zinc
3 omega fish oil caps
2 tablets calcium, magnesium, and vitamin D (combo)
1 tablet multivitamin
Ok so I had my BioSig this past Sunday and found it to be extremely informative and targeted. The gent I met with seemed to have this down pretty freaking well and was able to assess me and my GF pretty well covering all bases.
Her: She jumped on BC about 2 years ago and it literally raped her hormones and left her damaged. Estrogen was high and unstable; it fought with T and Pro monthly and pretty much won every time. Her diet was about 80-85% Paleo, exercise and performance was pretty good but everything could have been better. She couldnâ??t though drop the weight she was carrying but wasnâ??t really packing more on. Her stress is also out of control. She lost her dad last year to a house fire and she was in charge of his estate+being a school teacher+grad student+horrible little sleep+finanical cuts US wide+ etc etc. We are battling her stress monkeys and trying to get them under control.
So what did the Pract say?: Basically what I thought but more exact.
- Her sites show that her E is stealing her T through an androgen conversion issue.
- She is also more carb tolerant than I am (That pissed me off, seriously)
- Even though she gets quality sleep itâ??s not nearly enough.
- Liver was also considered weak and not detoxing like it should.
- Magnesium is also pretty depleted.
Recommendations made:
- Estrogen Detox and corrections (through diet and supplementation).
- Liver regeneration and detox (same as above).
- Control Sleep and stress (same as above+life style changes).
Me: My main problems have been a battle with hormones that has been waging since college. I started the battle by doing everything, EVERY single freaking thing wrong I could have done to funk this up (think: drugs/alcoholism/horrible sleep/smoking/shit exercise and over training/horrendous diet/bull shit over the counter supps/bullshit supps with all kinds of crap ingredients). This has caused more internal problems than external. I know I dont operate at 100%. It caused pec fat to form, a little tricep, love handle and lower back and soft looking thighs. I still have always rocked a 6pack (genetics) but had these other issues. I wanted to balance hormones and hit these trouble areas, that was the main reason for doing this.
Evaluation:
- Liver is shot. (Ive been told this several times both by medical Pros and all kinds of mystics and healers.)
- E is robbing T through conversion issues.
- T is being blunted causing E to dominate.
- I dont handle carbs too well (MUTHAFUKA!)
- Need deeper sleep (this is tough because I have a lot of “other” issues including OBEs and such)
- Digestion needs to be better.
- Estrogen detox.
Recommendations:
- Liver regeneration (through supps then diet).
- Estrogen detox (through supps)
- Deeper sleep (through supps)
- Low to no carb (diet, explanation below)
- Digestion aid (supps)
Before everyone says that Poliquin just sells his own snake oil my pract actually helped me and suggested different supps that were identical to Poliquins but obviously cheaper. All in all for everything between me and her to get started was around $250. I did some major ass bargain hunting though checked it with the pract and everything is the same. There were 2 Poliqiun supps we needed, couldnt get elsewhere, which cost the most. The good thing is it looks like we only need to do 1 cycle of them to possible correct the issue.
I am running a similar 14day bootcamp to what Tork is plus some info provided by the article Tbruce posted+IF+Paleo. Pract suggested I keep doing it with the possible addition of a cheat meal every 7th day. Gf may be able to have a cheat meal every 5th or 4th. Our first one is coming up this sunday! Not super excited about it because I know how to make everything that is usually considered a cheat meal using paleo ingredients (real ones not just a shit load of agave) so I usually do what I want and donâ??t go without (ie if I want toast I can make it paleo, if I want ice cream I can make it paleo). But in the past 10days I honestly have lost about 6lbs and 2%bf. Abs came out hard, obliques are now shining through and all the way around to my back. Love handles are no more (I stand with my hands on my hips now because itâ??s just bone, pics if you want em). Pec fat dropping but that should be last to go. Legs getting super toned and one of my favorite things- a shit load more veins/vascularity is going on that I havent had since beginning of college.
For the GF her results have thus far been: tighter arms, tighter tummy, thighs are being last to go.
Oh yeah, this is without the addition of any of the recommended supps thus far. Completely diet and training only, so we are excited to see what progress is made with the recommended supps.
Like Tork, I thought maybe there would be a dip in my training but I have noticed the opposite. I have been tired but once barbell is loaded the engine starts and I wake up. I know this is completely due to cortisol so Im not proud of this, I know I need to change it and I am in the process. GF finished her thesis last night so we intend on getting on a sleep schedule and start catching up starting tonight.
Once I start implementing the supps Il update.
Thanks for reading.
Very interesting experiences.
I’m 4 weeks into my biosig and I think it’s working really well. I haven’t started any of the supplement protocols yet as my practitioner likes to spend 4 weeks working on diet and training before adding anything in.
I expect that after saturday I’ll be put on digestion (read HCL) and anti cortisol supps (main problem site for me is umbilicus). We shall see though.
First 2 weeks diet and training produced 1.5% body fat reduction. I don’t think I’ve lost any body weight in the last 2 weeks, so any drops that show on saturday will likely be prefaced with simultaneous muscle gain. Excited to see what’s happening.
Will drop back in after Saturday to let you know the score.
@hipsr4runnin:
What is the main difference in your training (and gf’s training) post bio-sig to what it was before? If I understand your post, your diet has been close to unchanged?
thanks for the information, very interesting.
SONOFABITCH! I hit one button and deleted a bunch of info I had. Let me quickly start over.
MaxB:I would (from a paleo background) recommend cutting grains to heal gut. I dont know what issues you are having so if you want my email Il give it and we can chat. This may be why your abs arent showing which could also be a result of you sleep/training. But if youre gut is unhealthy and you arent breaking down/digesting your food then everything you intake (supps/food) is a giant waste of money and time.
Tork: What were your hormone problems anyways? E stealing T? Not enough T produced? Too much E hanging around in the body? Also what fiber supps were recommended? just curious. Also I dont think as being an Oly lifter you want to lose that booty. You need it and to be large and in charge for those weights son! Unless you just have a second/third pull of Thor himself. Pec and tri should go down as these are regulated by E. Ive seen this in me vs my brother vs general population vs athletes vs BB’s. This is why I believe this Poliquin stuff to be true; through observation and testing. Lower E higher T = +strength and recovery. You dont want to tank E though. Everyone has/needs a sweet spot. A lot of dude, especially those with E issues (Me!) tank E and run into all kinds of problems. you get sick, joints get super weak and can shatter, and your libido drops like a stone in water. I remember Poliquin said one time when ask “how do you know if youre producing good T?” He said “every morning you wake up you should have to do a handstand to take a piss.” Ive used that as a measuring stick (pun intended) concerning where my hormones are at.
Fuzzyapple: If those are your real issues it sounds like you have a slight insulin problem which is tied to and possibly caused by, shit sleep and stress (possibly related to training). It would be better to look at your diet/training/sleep 1st before supps. Supps wont completely resolve the issue. It also sounds like you need to up the supps but I dont know enough about you.
I dont want to hijack this thread either but if Tork is ok with it, I assume as long as we talk about Bio Sig related supps/protocols/issues it would be all good?
Indy: why did you get one? what were your problems? COuld you discuss protocol in greater detail for informative reasons?
Dianab: Difference in training was I just got done with training and competing in stage 1 of the Crossfit Games and wanted to focus on weak areas and stick to a solid outlined, really non-changing type of programming so we both decided to jump on Thibs 6 Weeks to SuperHero workouts. Ive tweaked them though to focus on certain weakness of my own. For instance on squat days (today! 
I took out the Top 1/2 Squat and replaced it with Back Squat. I can detail this if anyone is interested. Food stayed similar in the Paleo world but we are doing the 14day Bootcamp and I believe this combo is where the difference came from. Removal of carbs and going 0 carbs with the exception of trace carbs. My pract during the pinch test said I should not stop. It was super easy as well to make this transisiton. I cut fruit. I made a loaf of protein/fat bread and have things that are 0 carb and sweet that helped so everything wasnt dead and bland. My obliques are getting ripped and today for the 1st time in my life I saw the top of my lowest abs which means an 8 back could be on the way. I was dry and got good sleep last night which Im sure contributed. Once the little one gets more sleep and lowers stress Im sure her results will take off. Its just hard and Ive been having to do more psychology with her than training.
Whats the recipe for that protein/fat breads h4r?
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
SONOFABITCH! I hit one button and deleted a bunch of info I had. Let me quickly start over.
MaxB:I would (from a paleo background) recommend cutting grains to heal gut. I dont know what issues you are having so if you want my email Il give it and we can chat. This may be why your abs arent showing which could also be a result of you sleep/training. But if youre gut is unhealthy and you arent breaking down/digesting your food then everything you intake (supps/food) is a giant waste of money and time.
Tork: What were your hormone problems anyways? E stealing T? Not enough T produced? Too much E hanging around in the body? Also what fiber supps were recommended? just curious. Also I dont think as being an Oly lifter you want to lose that booty. You need it and to be large and in charge for those weights son! Unless you just have a second/third pull of Thor himself. Pec and tri should go down as these are regulated by E. Ive seen this in me vs my brother vs general population vs athletes vs BB’s. This is why I believe this Poliquin stuff to be true; through observation and testing. Lower E higher T = +strength and recovery. You dont want to tank E though. Everyone has/needs a sweet spot. A lot of dude, especially those with E issues (Me!) tank E and run into all kinds of problems. you get sick, joints get super weak and can shatter, and your libido drops like a stone in water. I remember Poliquin said one time when ask “how do you know if youre producing good T?” He said “every morning you wake up you should have to do a handstand to take a piss.” Ive used that as a measuring stick (pun intended) concerning where my hormones are at.
Fuzzyapple: If those are your real issues it sounds like you have a slight insulin problem which is tied to and possibly caused by, shit sleep and stress (possibly related to training). It would be better to look at your diet/training/sleep 1st before supps. Supps wont completely resolve the issue. It also sounds like you need to up the supps but I dont know enough about you.
I dont want to hijack this thread either but if Tork is ok with it, I assume as long as we talk about Bio Sig related supps/protocols/issues it would be all good?
Indy: why did you get one? what were your problems? COuld you discuss protocol in greater detail for informative reasons?
Dianab: Difference in training was I just got done with training and competing in stage 1 of the Crossfit Games and wanted to focus on weak areas and stick to a solid outlined, really non-changing type of programming so we both decided to jump on Thibs 6 Weeks to SuperHero workouts. Ive tweaked them though to focus on certain weakness of my own. For instance on squat days (today! I took out the Top 1/2 Squat and replaced it with Back Squat. I can detail this if anyone is interested. Food stayed similar in the Paleo world but we are doing the 14day Bootcamp and I believe this combo is where the difference came from. Removal of carbs and going 0 carbs with the exception of trace carbs. My pract during the pinch test said I should not stop. It was super easy as well to make this transisiton. I cut fruit. I made a loaf of protein/fat bread and have things that are 0 carb and sweet that helped so everything wasnt dead and bland. My obliques are getting ripped and today for the 1st time in my life I saw the top of my lowest abs which means an 8 back could be on the way. I was dry and got good sleep last night which Im sure contributed. Once the little one gets more sleep and lowers stress Im sure her results will take off. Its just hard and Ive been having to do more psychology with her than training. [/quote]
I believe all though my T levels are not optimal, its not the primary concern ATM, i remember my prac saying that I was likely having E steeling the T (high pec) but the worst site for me by far is the Hamstring, so too much estrogen in the body in general.
And im pretty sure my glutes are well enough developed that ill still have an ass once i get some of the fat off, but thanks for your concern
The fiber supps are the poliquin primal fiber 1/2/3.1
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
SONOFABITCH! I hit one button and deleted a bunch of info I had. Let me quickly start over.
MaxB:I would (from a paleo background) recommend cutting grains to heal gut. I dont know what issues you are having so if you want my email Il give it and we can chat. This may be why your abs arent showing which could also be a result of you sleep/training. But if youre gut is unhealthy and you arent breaking down/digesting your food then everything you intake (supps/food) is a giant waste of money and time.
Tork: What were your hormone problems anyways? E stealing T? Not enough T produced? Too much E hanging around in the body? Also what fiber supps were recommended? just curious. Also I dont think as being an Oly lifter you want to lose that booty. You need it and to be large and in charge for those weights son! Unless you just have a second/third pull of Thor himself. Pec and tri should go down as these are regulated by E. Ive seen this in me vs my brother vs general population vs athletes vs BB’s. This is why I believe this Poliquin stuff to be true; through observation and testing. Lower E higher T = +strength and recovery. You dont want to tank E though. Everyone has/needs a sweet spot. A lot of dude, especially those with E issues (Me!) tank E and run into all kinds of problems. you get sick, joints get super weak and can shatter, and your libido drops like a stone in water. I remember Poliquin said one time when ask “how do you know if youre producing good T?” He said “every morning you wake up you should have to do a handstand to take a piss.” Ive used that as a measuring stick (pun intended) concerning where my hormones are at.
Fuzzyapple: If those are your real issues it sounds like you have a slight insulin problem which is tied to and possibly caused by, shit sleep and stress (possibly related to training). It would be better to look at your diet/training/sleep 1st before supps. Supps wont completely resolve the issue. It also sounds like you need to up the supps but I dont know enough about you.
I dont want to hijack this thread either but if Tork is ok with it, I assume as long as we talk about Bio Sig related supps/protocols/issues it would be all good?
Indy: why did you get one? what were your problems? COuld you discuss protocol in greater detail for informative reasons?
Dianab: Difference in training was I just got done with training and competing in stage 1 of the Crossfit Games and wanted to focus on weak areas and stick to a solid outlined, really non-changing type of programming so we both decided to jump on Thibs 6 Weeks to SuperHero workouts. Ive tweaked them though to focus on certain weakness of my own. For instance on squat days (today! I took out the Top 1/2 Squat and replaced it with Back Squat. I can detail this if anyone is interested. Food stayed similar in the Paleo world but we are doing the 14day Bootcamp and I believe this combo is where the difference came from. Removal of carbs and going 0 carbs with the exception of trace carbs. My pract during the pinch test said I should not stop. It was super easy as well to make this transisiton. I cut fruit. I made a loaf of protein/fat bread and have things that are 0 carb and sweet that helped so everything wasnt dead and bland. My obliques are getting ripped and today for the 1st time in my life I saw the top of my lowest abs which means an 8 back could be on the way. I was dry and got good sleep last night which Im sure contributed. Once the little one gets more sleep and lowers stress Im sure her results will take off. Its just hard and Ive been having to do more psychology with her than training. [/quote]
My trouble sites are to do with the classic insulin/cortisol seesaw. Currently all I’m doing is following a strict paleo diet - no gluten, grains, dairy or legumes. I’ve been doing that for 4 weeks with good success. I get my next assessment tomorrow, at which point I expect to be put on a supplement protocol to combat cortisol. Not sure which direction he will take with it as there are apparently a few options.
Supplement wise I’m only taking fish oil (20g/day for insulin and all the other myriad of benefits) and a greens+ supplement (which is a potent anti-oxidant and anti-stress supp). I supplement pre and post workout with 30g of BCAA’s.
I’ll see whether he’s happy for me to share my supplement protocol in more detail once I’ve been given it.
Tork - I had issues with my hammies too, I did the DIM + Calc D Gluc + eating a shit ton of organic broccoli and I was amazed how fast how quickly they leaned out. I have had a few people ask me how to get “the cuts between my hamstrings and quads” so deeply etched, but genetically my legs are my blessing. I have some vein action going on (mostly after I train) in my hamstrings, quads, and calves. I think you will like what you see if you try the estrogen protocol.
My observations - Fenuplex + Insulinomics works wonders for insulin issues, my subscap is much leaner than before, and my lower back has much less to pinch as well.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Tork - I had issues with my hammies too, I did the DIM + Calc D Gluc + eating a shit ton of organic broccoli and I was amazed how fast how quickly they leaned out. I have had a few people ask me how to get “the cuts between my hamstrings and quads” so deeply etched, but genetically my legs are my blessing. I have some vein action going on (mostly after I train) in my hamstrings, quads, and calves. I think you will like what you see if you try the estrogen protocol.
My observations - Fenuplex + Insulinomics works wonders for insulin issues, my subscap is much leaner than before, and my lower back has much less to pinch as well. [/quote]
Thanks for the heads up, my prac has ordered enough of the estro supps to last 4-5 weeks and they should be here on Monday or at the latest early next week. how much did your skin folds go down once you went on the protocol? I know everyone’s different, but im kinda interested to see at least a ball park figure of what to expect.
I haven’t read through all of the posts, but I am curious as to who has had blood work/labs done that confirmed the biosig practitioner’s assessment? I had a biosig done a couple of years ago and was told I had “good testosterone levels” and high cortisol. It turns out both my T and cortisol were very low. Not trying to storm in here and crap on Poliquin or Biosig, but I didn’t have much faith in it (or specifically the practitioner) after that.
Tbruce has some great info, no doubt from working at the same gym as a a few PICP/BioSig guys back in London.
Tork, if you’re unclear on something, feel free to ask. I’ve been doing BioSig for nearly 2 years now, and feel pretty confident in what I know. Tbruce knows the benefits. While I haven’t read through the entire thread, I have skimmed a good chunk of it. I’m glad to hear that your guy is going through all the basics first (HCl, zinc, mag, fibre, etc) before getting in to the other stuff (DIM, Calcium d-glucarate, uber sulphurophane, etc). Sounds like you’re in good hands. Who is your practitioner? There’s a chance that I may know him/her.
[quote]1llusion wrote:
Tbruce has some great info, no doubt from working at the same gym as a a few PICP/BioSig guys back in London.
Tork, if you’re unclear on something, feel free to ask. I’ve been doing BioSig for nearly 2 years now, and feel pretty confident in what I know. Tbruce knows the benefits. While I haven’t read through the entire thread, I have skimmed a good chunk of it. I’m glad to hear that your guy is going through all the basics first (HCl, zinc, mag, fibre, etc) before getting in to the other stuff (DIM, Calcium d-glucarate, uber sulphurophane, etc). Sounds like you’re in good hands. Who is your practitioner? There’s a chance that I may know him/her.[/quote]
Name is Paul Krol. Im pretty confident in him as well and he seems like a really nice guy who really cares about me/my lifting/health and not just my money.
I am starting the estrogen protocol on Monday (unless the supps are late), what are typical results usually like in your experience?
There are too many factors/dependencies to give a “typical” result. I’ve seen clients drop their hamstring from 30’s to teens in anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 months. It all depends on how well you stick to the protocol and what estrogens (e2, e4, e16 need to be in the right ratio). By the way, I’m assuming he’s had you do the asparagus test (for methylation)?
[quote]1llusion wrote:
There are too many factors/dependencies to give a “typical” result. I’ve seen clients drop their hamstring from 30’s to teens in anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 months. It all depends on how well you stick to the protocol and what estrogens (e2, e4, e16 need to be in the right ratio). By the way, I’m assuming he’s had you do the asparagus test (for methylation)?[/quote]
No, i have not taken the asparagus test, but i did google it just now and I have never noticed any distinct smell after having asparagus in the past (not that I was aware of the test the last time i ate it).
It would be worth doing in the next few days, before you start the estrogen protocol. Simply eat a bunch of asparagus at one of your next meals, and see what your urine smells like later in the day. If you smell asparagus (or something quite noticeable), ask Paul for a methylator. If you don’t methylate properly (your urine smells), then any estro/test protocol you do will have minimal effects. I’ve even supplemented a methylator with clients who do methylate, just to help the pathway a little more.
For example, this is when I first took BioSig:
chin 4
cheek 7.4
pec 5
tri 5
subscap 7
midaux 4.8
supra 9.4
umb 5.8
knee 8.4
calves 5.4
quad 5.4
ham 8.2
3 weeks later, after hcl, zinc and a methylator:
chin 3.6
cheek 6.2
pec 3.0
tri 3.5
subscap 7
midaux 3.9
supra 4.4
umb 4.8
knee 9.0
calves 4.4
quad 4.2
ham 5.4
As you can see, my pec, tricep, quad and hamstring all dropped a significant percentage (40%, 30%, 22%, and 35% respectively).
1llusion,
A fitness competitor this morning, told me to switch up my green vegetable (usually broccoli) to asparagus, as she claimed it was “a fat burner.” I have no idea if this is true or not, is there something special about asparagus that makes it reign supreme among green veggies for fat loss?
Also, what is the purpose of the methylator you mention above? If you do smell the asparagus in your urine, is that a sign of something (or of something you lack?)
Also from the numbers you posted, your supra-iliac dropped a shit ton too !