Physique Clinic discussion for USCTrojan619

Training Bodybuilding
121

[quote]USCTrojan619 wrote:

Someone who knows more about this, please chime in, but I actually heard that doing the opposite is better, meaning eating my fruits and veggies first, and then my chicken, turkey, shrimp, fish. And the reasoning was because the protein takes a lot longer to digest, and if you eat it first and carbs after, then you’ll have gas/bloating/angry stomach.[/quote]

I definitely am not an expert, but this is also what I read.

I read that it has to do with the enzymes the body produces to break down different kinds of food. A few books I have read suggest separating when you eat certain foods (not eating protein and carbs at the same meal for example) to aid digestion. This is also my understanding of why you should not drink while eating. It all about the enzymes.

I would also be curious to hear peoples opinions on this.

BTW, I am also an Ecto and also have a really hard time eating a lot of food.

122

Hey Trojan, good luck with this, I have been keeping track.

I have a question…when you eat all this food are you crapping a lot more? When I was on a weight gain diet it seemed like I would take 2-3 big ones during the day, like the food didn’t stay in my system long enough for it to be absorbed…

123

[quote]kgrig wrote:
Hey Trojan, good luck with this, I have been keeping track.

I have a question…when you eat all this food are you crapping a lot more? When I was on a weight gain diet it seemed like I would take 2-3 big ones during the day, like the food didn’t stay in my system long enough for it to be absorbed…[/quote]

WARNING! This post is going to be talking a lot about S-H-I-T! :slight_smile:

BIG TIME! It was like that for me yesterday from around 3pm to gym time at 6pm (like it wouldn’t stop), and we’re not talking about big solid craps either. And then, it would be like on and off until I slept. I think its all the milk-based protein supps. I don’t consider myself lactose intolerant, but I’m downing a shit-ton of shakes everyday.

And I’m not eating anything different from what I’ve eaten before, just a lot more of it. Except for drinking egg whites. That’s a first for me. So my stomach is probably mad at me for that!

Today was better. Only once so far (maybe one more time before the day is up), and although not “running” out of me, it was really soft. I was battling the grumbling and gas throughout the day though.

Gawd! I’m grossing myself out just typing this!

124

[quote]USCTrojan619 wrote:
kgrig wrote:
Hey Trojan, good luck with this, I have been keeping track.

I have a question…when you eat all this food are you crapping a lot more? When I was on a weight gain diet it seemed like I would take 2-3 big ones during the day, like the food didn’t stay in my system long enough for it to be absorbed…

WARNING! This post is going to be talking a lot about S-H-I-T! :slight_smile:

BIG TIME! It was like that for me yesterday from around 3pm to gym time at 6pm (like it wouldn’t stop), and we’re not talking about big solid craps either. And then, it would be like on and off until I slept. I think its all the milk-based protein supps. I don’t consider myself lactose intolerant, but I’m downing a shit-ton of shakes everyday.

And I’m not eating anything different from what I’ve eaten before, just a lot more of it. Except for drinking egg whites. That’s a first for me. So my stomach is probably mad at me for that!

Today was better. Only once so far (maybe one more time before the day is up), and although not “running” out of me, it was really soft. I was battling the grumbling and gas throughout the day though.

Gawd! I’m grossing myself out just typing this!
[/quote]

I think you might have a hard time making solid gains if this kind of thing continues.

It could be:

  1. because you have the flu…
  2. you might actually be lactose intolerant
  3. like your guess, your system is getting used to it

In a simple overfeeding situation I think it more common that you have an increased number of bowel movements; like 2 or 3 a day. But they would be more normal, with less gas and bloating and stomach upset.

I’m pretty sure that CT does not intend this to be hell on your system. I would advise you to make sure he knows what’s up, so he can consider altering your diet!

kgrig, does your experience further validate what I’m saying? When you were overfeeding, you crapped more, but it was relatively normal right?

EDIT: The reason I am taking interest in this problem is that it took me years to figure out that I was lactose intolerant. I’ve been there, done that, and i KNOW it is not fun. Even if your issue is not the same, I feel your pain. Finally, I hope for your sake that is simply an adjustment issue… But to be honest that just doesn’t make sense to me.

125

[quote]50x wrote:
Try straps.

50x
[/quote]

You can use straps if you have to, but I prefer not to. Using just your hands will help improve your grip. If you always use straps, you’ll never have the grip strength for grip demanding tasks. If you must use straps, do so on your heaviest sets. If you use chalk and alternative grip you should have no problem.

Also, in regards to eating dry chicken breast (or other meats), I have been down that road and done that. One remedy to this problem is to use a meat cleaver. Chop all your food small and mix it all together. This probably sounds like more of a pain in the ass than anything, but it will save you loads of time and disgust. If you’re like me, I am a slow eater. If you have all your food chopped small, not only is it easier to eat because it is not bland, but it also saves you time because you don’t have to chew it so much. Having a lot of veggies (in your case, green veggies) chopped up small with the chicken (or other meat) makes it taste like a salad. That way, it allows you to stay away from all that sugary shit. Also, try some spices. Some good ones are cayenne pepper, sea salt, or granulated garlic. Another trick is to put lots of cayenne pepper on your foods. This will make it spicy, and force you to drink water (cayenne also aids in digestion).

I still think that waking up earlier with help with all that food consumption, but you have to be dedicated to do so.
lol, I could go on and on… but I will let you go.

Keep at it

126

[quote]diputs wrote:
USCTrojan619 wrote:

Someone who knows more about this, please chime in, but I actually heard that doing the opposite is better, meaning eating my fruits and veggies first, and then my chicken, turkey, shrimp, fish. And the reasoning was because the protein takes a lot longer to digest, and if you eat it first and carbs after, then you’ll have gas/bloating/angry stomach.

I definitely am not an expert, but this is also what I read.

I read that it has to do with the enzymes the body produces to break down different kinds of food. A few books I have read suggest separating when you eat certain foods (not eating protein and carbs at the same meal for example) to aid digestion. This is also my understanding of why you should not drink while eating. It all about the enzymes.

I would also be curious to hear peoples opinions on this.

BTW, I am also an Ecto and also have a really hard time eating a lot of food.
[/quote]

I didn’t comment on this because I thought everyone else did it that way. I was taught that carbs (fruits , veggies and grains) expands with the from the stomach and make you full faster, therefore to eat the meat first, chewing it slowly and then get the vegetables and last fruits or other carbs.

The shits you are having is from your body not being accustomed to drinking so many shakes. Metabolic Drive does have protein from milk. It should take you 1 week to 2 for your stomach to adjust. Remember that you have completely changed your diet habits and your stomach is not used to process all that food.

Aside from the discomfort of using the toilet so many times is there any life threatening? If not then keep doing it until your stomach realizes this is the way you will eat from now on and it will adapt.

Check with Thibs if you can lower the hours apart from the meals, because of your schedule of classes and sleeping pattersn you maybe better eating every 2.5hours or even 2 hours (with smaller meals). But that is what I would do instead of getting less sleep or waking up at 0500 when my girl wants me to keep her warm. Again, check with Thibs.

127

[quote]USCTrojan619 wrote:
kgrig wrote:
Hey Trojan, good luck with this, I have been keeping track.

I have a question…when you eat all this food are you crapping a lot more? When I was on a weight gain diet it seemed like I would take 2-3 big ones during the day, like the food didn’t stay in my system long enough for it to be absorbed…

WARNING! This post is going to be talking a lot about S-H-I-T! :slight_smile:

BIG TIME! It was like that for me yesterday from around 3pm to gym time at 6pm (like it wouldn’t stop), and we’re not talking about big solid craps either. And then, it would be like on and off until I slept. I think its all the milk-based protein supps. I don’t consider myself lactose intolerant, but I’m downing a shit-ton of shakes everyday.

And I’m not eating anything different from what I’ve eaten before, just a lot more of it. Except for drinking egg whites. That’s a first for me. So my stomach is probably mad at me for that!

Today was better. Only once so far (maybe one more time before the day is up), and although not “running” out of me, it was really soft. I was battling the grumbling and gas throughout the day though.

Gawd! I’m grossing myself out just typing this!
[/quote]

Now here is a subject I am an expert in. The last time I tried a Whey based protein, I was on the toilet for hours. It destroyed my insides. Took me a week till I could eat anything and have it stick.

I stick to Hemp protein now. No dairy.

Very curious what the experts say about this.

128

[quote]sawadeekrob wrote:
I didn’t comment on this because I thought everyone else did it that way. I was taught that carbs (fruits , veggies and grains) expands with the from the stomach and make you full faster, therefore to eat the meat first, chewing it slowly and then get the vegetables and last fruits or other carbs.[/quote]

I would not put fruit, veggies and grains in the same category.

From what I have read…

Fruit should be eaten alone so that it can be properly digested.

One meal should be veggies and grains. Another meal protein and veggies. Veggies can be eaten with everything, but grains and proteins should not be eaten together.

I hope an expert chimes in and confirms or denies one of the theories.

P.S. I cannot figure out how to get back to the other physique Clinic thread, where is it?

129

[quote]diputs wrote:
sawadeekrob wrote:
I didn’t comment on this because I thought everyone else did it that way. I was taught that carbs (fruits , veggies and grains) expands with the from the stomach and make you full faster, therefore to eat the meat first, chewing it slowly and then get the vegetables and last fruits or other carbs.

I would not put fruit, veggies and grains in the same category.

From what I have read…

Fruit should be eaten alone so that it can be properly digested.

One meal should be veggies and grains. Another meal protein and veggies. Veggies can be eaten with everything, but grains and proteins should not be eaten together.

I hope an expert chimes in and confirms or denies one of the theories.

P.S. I cannot figure out how to get back to the other physique Clinic thread, where is it?

[/quote]

If what you said is true then why is Thibs mixing fruits with protein bars (which have pro, carbs and fat)?

What you are referring to is a method used when bulking and what I am referring to is a method for him to get his required feedings. Completely different things.

130

All foods in there raw natural states provide the stomach with the essential enzymes to be broken down. These food enzymes combine and work in perfect partnership with our own digestive enzymes to ensure the easy digestion and absorption of what we put in our stomach. When we talk about fruits in veggies, in particular, we are usually referring to them in there raw natural state or slightly cooked state. These are two that are loaded with essential enzymes. Therefore, they are the easiest to assimilate into the body. All foods are completely deficient of enzymes when cooked. Sometimes not all the way if they have been cooked slightly, but still, there is a fine line. This is where the saying “the more cooked food you have, the less nutrition you have” comes from. In addition, The higher the water content of a food, the more effortlessly it will be digested by our body. Oily foods are the hardest for the stomach because of oil’s complete insolubility in water (with Coconut oil being a rare exception).

The very best foods are Kefir and Sauerkraut because they are loaded with enzymes, and they actually aid in digestion (making your stomach’s digestive track stronger in the process), but that is another story. Eating watery raw foods before cooked foods allows a nice transition for the stomach since it digest in the order in which it receives. Another step you can take is to make sure to chew your food well as digestion can not happen until food is in a liquid state.
Hope this clears up some uncertainties.

131

[quote]USCTrojan619 wrote:
mtotry wrote:
from past experience try eating your meats before your carbs and fruit…and yes dont drink with your meals…youll get full much faster that way…

good luck!

Someone who knows more about this, please chime in, but I actually heard that doing the opposite is better, meaning eating my fruits and veggies first, and then my chicken, turkey, shrimp, fish. And the reasoning was because the protein takes a lot longer to digest, and if you eat it first and carbs after, then you’ll have gas/bloating/angry stomach.

All I know is, my stomach isn’t used to all this food and its angry all the time. :)[/quote]

Ask Thibs…but im 90% sure I am correct…ill look for a source on the net for you…proteins then everything else…

132

[quote]mtotry wrote:
USCTrojan619 wrote:
mtotry wrote:
from past experience try eating your meats before your carbs and fruit…and yes dont drink with your meals…youll get full much faster that way…

good luck!

Someone who knows more about this, please chime in, but I actually heard that doing the opposite is better, meaning eating my fruits and veggies first, and then my chicken, turkey, shrimp, fish. And the reasoning was because the protein takes a lot longer to digest, and if you eat it first and carbs after, then you’ll have gas/bloating/angry stomach.

All I know is, my stomach isn’t used to all this food and its angry all the time. :slight_smile:

Ask Thibs…but im 90% sure I am correct…ill look for a source on the net for you…proteins then everything else…

[/quote]

Look for that source!

133

This is a post by Massive G(well known poster on a few sites) and he gives some thoughts on eating protein first…

www.intensemuscle.com/5722-eating-protein-first
-reviewing-why-we-do.html

Worth a read.

134

Well, I just posted some random thoughts, and although I’m barely through my 4th day, I already feel my body adjusting.

Before this diet, I probably ate anywhere from 2000 as a max, and easily as low as 1500 on a bad day where I just didn’t feel like eating shit at all. I cleaned it up a little bit probably a month before I became a “regular” on this board (also around the same time I submitted for the PC), which was the 3 day diet I listed in the very beginning of my PC.

Still, it was nothing in comparison to what I’m eating now. I haven’t eaten this big since March of this year, and never this much protein, ever.

But like I said, I have gas every now and then, and the “runs” have already stopped. I’ve only had one bowel movement yesterday, and one so far today. They were probably in between soft and normal. . .maybe a little closer to the soft side.

So, I’m pretty optimistic about my body getting used to what I’m stuffing down my mouth. I’ll definitely see how I’m feeling a couple weeks from now.

I feel like my stomach has already started to “expand”, and the urge to hurl after every meal is pretty much a non-factor now.

135

[quote]sawadeekrob wrote:

Aside from the discomfort of using the toilet so many times is there any life threatening? If not then keep doing it until your stomach realizes this is the way you will eat from now on and it will adapt.[/quote]

This is pretty much the way I’m looking at it.

[quote]sawadeekrob wrote:

Check with Thibs if you can lower the hours apart from the meals, because of your schedule of classes and sleeping pattersn you maybe better eating every 2.5hours or even 2 hours (with smaller meals). But that is what I would do instead of getting less sleep or waking up at 0500 when my girl wants me to keep her warm. Again, check with Thibs.[/quote]

That’s pretty much what I’m doing now, following his meal plan and eating anywhere from 2-3 hours. And I still get good sleep, even if I don’t go to bed until 12:30am (I wake up at 8ish just to eat breakfast). And, at least for the next couple of weeks, I just go back to bed until my first snack at 11ish. I’m pretty much forcing my body to get used to what I’m eating in the amount of time I’m giving it.

136

Okay, this is the last of the workouts for this portion of the program. You should have all 4 now. I’ll be doing this one tomorrow:

A Machine lateral raise 8-10
2 sets 90 sec rest 4-0-1-0 tempo
Adjust: 8-10 reps to failure, rest 10-12 seconds, more reps to failure, drop by 50%, more reps to failure,
rest 10-12 seconds, more reps to failure

B Partial seated shoulder press �?? Top half press in power rack 3,2,1
3 sets 120 sec rest 2-0-1-0 tempo
Adjust: This is the top portion of the press only (go heavy!) … start the bar on the safety pins, midway
to lockout

C Seated machine shoulder press 6-8
2 sets 120 sec rest 3-0-1-0 tempo
Adjust: Perform 6-8 reps to failure, rest 10-12 seconds, perform more reps to failure with same weight,
rest 10-12 seconds and perform a few more reps to failure, decrease weight by 50% and perform reps to
failure, then perform partial reps at the top and then partial reps at the bottom

D Close-grip bench 6-8
1 sets 120 sec rest 4-0-1-0 tempo
Adjust: Perform 6-8 reps to failure, rest 10-12 seconds, perform more reps to failure with same weight,
rest 10-12 seconds and perform a few more reps to failure, then perform top partials to failure

E Decline DB triceps extension 6-8
2 sets 120 sec rest 4-0-1-0 tempo
Adjust: Perform 6-8 reps to failure as a triceps extension. When you reach failure, continue to lower
slowly as a triceps extension but lift as a press, to failure.

137

[quote]USCTrojan619 wrote:
I wanted to ask the other ectos for different and EASY ways to prepare chicken/turkey/fish/shrimp, but they don’t know what I’m allowed and not allowed to use.

Can you recommend ways I can make chicken/turkey/fish/shrimp more appetizing and different…
[/quote]

Easy… do what i told you earlier. If you don’t believe me, at least give it a try. Thib will just till you to eat it, I think. I asked him a very similar question a while ago in the locker room. Remember, food is fuel for your body to get bigger and stronger. While pleasure can be a benefit, IT IS NOT your top priority.

138

No offense, but I think it is lame to think that ‘food is just fuel’ when there are PLENTY of ways to change the flavor of something and still have it adhere to dietary requirements. That mentality is just to keep someone from ‘whining’ - though I think it’s a legit request to want to enjoy what you put in your mouth - and potentially using the bland-food argument as a crutch not to be disciplined.

I cook pretty frequently and enjoy playing around with flavors. There are so many combinations it is mind boggling. So many things you can do and still eat healthy.

Anyway…

With regards to enzymes, you can take Omegazyme which is what Berardi recommends, by Garden of Life. Few scoops with each protein containing meal. Maybe throw in a few scoops into each shake (that’s what I do).

Also, ask Thib if you can use Betaine HCL pills. They will help digestion BIG time. I use 600mg pills and take 2-4 with high protein + fat meals…really helps me I think.

139

Oh, and I have to ask (and sorry if it was answered earlier):

Why are you drinking Surge Workout Fuel AND Surge Recovery for pre-workout?

Looks like you’re doing the same thing throughout the workout, right? I thought Surge Workout Fuel was preferred over Surge Recovery for during the workout?

And, do you drink them as separate shakes or mix it all up?

Keep up the good work, USC!

140

[quote]DeanoT wrote:
Thib will just till you to eat it, I think. I asked him a very similar question a while ago in the locker room.[/quote]

lol… and he did. ha ha… :slight_smile: