Physique Clinic discussion for gustavopacho

Training
603

Hey, Gus. Kudos on the continued great work. No way you are 20% BF. I’d say maybe 11% or SLIGHTLY higher. Thib is right. The 4 site test is crap! When I was running track in college, I had a trainer test my bodfyat % for shits and giggles. He used the 4 site test and had me at 13.7%.

A couple days later, our coach decided to test us using a DEXA scan [the gold standard], and I came in at 8.5%. Meanwhile, my Tanita scale was telling me I was 20%! The only TRULY accurate measures are the 12 site test in the hands of a skilled professional or DEXA scan. Regardless, you are well on your way to your goal of true leaness whatever bodyweight that currently puts you at. Keep up the great work!

604

YOU ARE NOT 20% body fat…Even I’m not at 20 and you, my friend, are so far ahead of me it’s not funny. I tried to mess with calipers and all that but I’m definitely a fan of the camera and tape measure now…no one can see abs at 20%, unless you’ve turned your abs into cinder blocks or on the stuff that made the pro bodybuilders look pregnant a few years ago.

605

I echo these sentiments. Sorry bro, but like Thibs said, a 4 site method is inaccurate and the impedence reading is even worse.

606

[quote]Brendan Ryan wrote:
I echo these sentiments. Sorry bro, but like Thibs said, a 4 site method is inaccurate and the impedence reading is even worse.[/quote]

Regarding the bioimpedence scale thing. A simple thing like hydration levels can completely screw up the results. The device ‘‘works’’ by sending an electric current through you body and measure body fat using the speed at which the current travels in your body. The ‘‘logic’’ is that muscle and fat have different levels of conduction.

However if you are dehydrated or hyperhydrated it will also change the speed of conduction.

I once has a football player test our at 18% on this machine… and the guy had veins on his abs!

ANY TRAINER WHO ACTUALLY USE THIS DEVICE OBVIOUSLY DOESN’T DESERVE TO BE REGARDED AS A GREAT TRAINER, LET ALONE ONE OF THE BEST!

607

Yeah… to reiterate what everyone has said, no way you’re at 20%. If you really went down from >30 to 20%, then your lean mass is at ~140… and we’re all pretty sure you’re packing more than that.

If you’re at 20% now, you’re gonna be popping veins at 15…

608


Latest side-by pics.

609

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
Latest side-by pics. [/quote]

Yeah, that’s 20%

610

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
Latest side-by pics. [/quote]

I think the pooch is gone. Yep, no more dog around your gut.

611

Hey Gus. I thought I’d throw this out there. When I was in the military(USAF '93-'97), they used and may still use a method for determining bf% using height/weight/neck/belly measurements. The best info I could find is that some AF researchers developed a calculation that was a best fit to test subjects that had their bf% tested in some standardized way.

Frankly, it is at best a serious SWAG(scientific wild-assed guess) and fairly variable based on the measurements though it does take three measures each in the neck and belly and averages them before doing the calculation. I say all of that because I want everyone to understand that I understand the limitations.

I have a DOS program that runs the calculation based on these input parameters. So, for grins, I ran your numbers. Your first measurements were on

12/17/2007

Height:68.00"
Weight:210lbs
Neck :16.00"
Belly :39.50"

Total BM:210
Fat BM: 54
Lean BM:156

%BF: 25.87%

Your last measurements were on

3/2/2008

Height:68.00"
Weight:182lbs
Neck :15.25"
Belly :32.00"

Total BM:192
Fat BM: 27
Lean BM:155

%BF: 14.63%

The program returned a bf% and I multiplied this against the weight to generate the LBM, rounded to the next pound and subtracted from the total mass to get the fat mass.

I’m not saying that this is accurate or not accurate. I’m just saying that I think it may be a little more repeatable and 15% bf seems a whole lot more believable than 20%.

Two things caught my eye. First, the bf% numbers seemed to pass the BS test and seemed reasonable. Second, these numbers show only a negligible drop in LBM while dropping 11% bf.

Dan

link to the software:
http://www.calculateforfree.com/index5.html
near the top Free Downloads Army Bodyfat calculator/Air Force version and an online bf% calculator that only uses height/weight/belly
http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/

612

[quote]RockCrusher wrote:
Hey Gus. I thought I’d throw this out there. When I was in the military(USAF '93-'97), they used and may still use a method for determining bf% using height/weight/neck/belly measurements. The best info I could find is that some AF researchers developed a calculation that was a best fit to test subjects that had their bf% tested in some standardized way.

Frankly, it is at best a serious SWAG(scientific wild-assed guess) and fairly variable based on the measurements though it does take three measures each in the neck and belly and averages them before doing the calculation. I say all of that because I want everyone to understand that I understand the limitations.

I have a DOS program that runs the calculation based on these input parameters. So, for grins, I ran your numbers. Your first measurements were on

12/17/2007

Height:68.00"
Weight:210lbs
Neck :16.00"
Belly :39.50"

Total BM:210
Fat BM: 54
Lean BM:156

%BF: 25.87%

Your last measurements were on

3/2/2008

Height:68.00"
Weight:182lbs
Neck :15.25"
Belly :32.00"

Total BM:192
Fat BM: 27
Lean BM:155

%BF: 14.63%

The program returned a bf% and I multiplied this against the weight to generate the LBM, rounded to the next pound and subtracted from the total mass to get the fat mass.

I’m not saying that this is accurate or not accurate. I’m just saying that I think it may be a little more repeatable and 15% bf seems a whole lot more believable than 20%.

Two things caught my eye. First, the bf% numbers seemed to pass the BS test and seemed reasonable. Second, these numbers show only a negligible drop in LBM while dropping 11% bf.

Dan[/quote]

Thanks for getting that done for me Dan. I’m kinda frustrated with getting an accurate BF measurement and I believe yours is probably darn close. I just don’t feel like 20 percent from my caliper readings. 15 percent sounds about right since most people can see their top row of abs at 15 percent(I think I read that somewhere).

Kick butt on your V-Diet program Dan, I’m looking forward to your end results! Thanks for your help again.

613

All I can say man is that your shoulder to waist ratio is looking fantastic; you must have done some chins in your time.
d.

614

[quote]RockCrusher wrote:
Hey Gus. I thought I’d throw this out there. When I was in the military(USAF '93-'97), they used and may still use a method for determining bf% using height/weight/neck/belly measurements. The best info I could find is that some AF researchers developed a calculation that was a best fit to test subjects that had their bf% tested in some standardized way.

Frankly, it is at best a serious SWAG(scientific wild-assed guess) and fairly variable based on the measurements though it does take three measures each in the neck and belly and averages them before doing the calculation. I say all of that because I want everyone to understand that I understand the limitations.

I have a DOS program that runs the calculation based on these input parameters. So, for grins, I ran your numbers. Your first measurements were on

12/17/2007

Height:68.00"
Weight:210lbs
Neck :16.00"
Belly :39.50"

Total BM:210
Fat BM: 54
Lean BM:156

%BF: 25.87%

Your last measurements were on

3/2/2008

Height:68.00"
Weight:182lbs
Neck :15.25"
Belly :32.00"

Total BM:192
Fat BM: 27
Lean BM:155

%BF: 14.63%

The program returned a bf% and I multiplied this against the weight to generate the LBM, rounded to the next pound and subtracted from the total mass to get the fat mass.

I’m not saying that this is accurate or not accurate. I’m just saying that I think it may be a little more repeatable and 15% bf seems a whole lot more believable than 20%.

Two things caught my eye. First, the bf% numbers seemed to pass the BS test and seemed reasonable. Second, these numbers show only a negligible drop in LBM while dropping 11% bf.

Dan

link to the software:
http://www.calculateforfree.com/index5.html
near the top Free Downloads Army Bodyfat calculator/Air Force version and an online bf% calculator that only uses height/weight/belly
http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/ [/quote]

I’m very familiar with this calculation, I won’t go into why. I once had an Excel spreadsheet of it. From what I’ve read, it’s actually fairly accurate. The one thing it has going for it is that it limits user error. Thibs mentioned the user error issues surrounding the caliper/skinfold method and the machine error with bioimpedance testing.

There’s still some user error in using a tape measure, but unless you’re a total dork, you can measure your gut and neck. Plus, the calculation takes an average of three measurements so the error is somewhat smoothed out.

615

I posted this on Greg’s thread but I’ll post it here, too. It’s a link to the Army body fat calculator. You have to mess with it a little to get it to work right but if you know something about Excel you’ll figure it out. Basically, cells F10 and F11 are “protected,” but these are the cells that are used for the calculation.

When you download this file, save a copy to your hard drive. Then unprotect the sheet, and in cells F10 and F11 enter the formulas =E10 and =E11 respectively. This will then get the formula to work. Or, send me a PM with your email and I’ll send you my copy, which I’ve already fixed.

616

Hi!

I just wanted to chime in and say great job! You’re looking really great!

I liked what you said the other day:
“There is not much wiggle room with 1700 calories and 1400 calories. Heck, that is probably some people’s calorie totals before lunch! I guess when it comes down to it, dieting to get lean is just switching over to eating for function. Yeah, I love eating but I also love being lean now. F**k it, I’m just going to suck it up and dial it down”

Definite reality check… Sometimes it’s really hard because it’s so easy to make exceptions… someone’s b-day so you have to have cake, someone’s anniversary you have to have champagne… but, you said it right… you love eating but, you love being lean so, you’re sucking it up! When I read that I had just gone out for someone’s b-day the night before and was literally the only one not drinking, not eating cake, and not pounding shots at the club… the dirty looks when you ask for water… yikes!

It’s really tough, not because I want to drink just because I started to feel excluded! I guess at the end of the night when I crammed 6 drunkies in my car to drive them home, they kinda appreciated the not drinking… so, then when I read what you said, I thought F*ck it… I’m just gonna do what I set out to do! :O)

617

Dude, if your bf is 20% then mine is 200%.

Mine ain’t 200%.

You’re getting shredded, bro, almost there!

618


Before and current in normal clothing.

619

I just want to say great job Gus! I’ve been following your PC since day 1 and you have been making some amazing changes in your physique. Being able to follow your thread has actually motivated me to start my own log over in the beginers section. You’ve been an inspiration keep up the hard work.

PS-Your arms in the latest pic are looking real strong, still think they are trying to catch up to your MONSTER back tho.

620

Hey Gus - you’re progress has been nothing short of incredible so far. Very inspiring!

I apologize if you’ve answered this already, but I was curious about your previous training. Like others have said, your lat spread is ridiculous. Has your back been a point of emphasis in your past training?

621

Damn dude, welcome to swoleness. Lookin very solid. You fill out that T-Nation t-shirt as it should be, keep going bro.

622

I say this in the manliest way possible - When can I do pullups on you arm? In all seriousness though, great progress as usual and I have to agree with Shugs on this one: clothed picture = madness.

And I quote:

Messenger: This is madness!
Gustavo: Madness…? THIS…IS…GUSTAVO!

This quote was seriously in the movie. I couldn’t make this up.