“Pick up the book Facts and Fallacies of Fitness by Dr. Mel Siff for the answer to your question.”
I’ve read excerpts from this book and it is very interesting to say the least.
hi all - first post here
im a personal trainer in ireland - reading T-Nation since day one !
i agree with a lot of the abuse and hostility towards trainers - ive been on courses and sat next to fat guys who didnt know what protein was , ive been told by tutors that the serratus is the longest muscle in the leg and that pumpkin seeds are the best quality of protein money can buy !
just want to point out we are not all created equal - i had a girl today deadlift 100 kg and do 12 chin ups - she does no cardio and now has abs since dropping from 60 to 50 kg
some clients i have will been carb cycling , others try one rep maxes or german volume training etc etc -most can do dips , chins , or bodyweight squats deads , bench etc
we dont all rely on swiss balls , dynabands and cardio machines (none of which i use)
rant over - just wanted to step away from the brush we have all been tarred with thanks to the numpties out there who work as trainers yet have no clue
neil
I have one I saw just the other day at the gym…I was looking for the collars to do squats and just happened to glance over at the leg press only to see one guy giving another a lecture about how he should always use them just in case the weight was uneven and tips…now all I could do was shake my head cause I was pretty speachless at this point
[quote]Kinetix wrote:
Thanks for bringing this one!
It’s been years since I worked in a commercial facility, but I remember people being particularly rude because they thought they knew what they were doing.
Besides, does your doctor operate on you for free?
[/quote]
Doctors don’t operate for free. But if you are choking in a restaurant, they’ll perform the heimlik for free and even give the information to the paramedics with submitting a bill to your insurance.
If a trainer is willing to help correct some bad form on a member of the gym, he may get a new customer.
Definite overrelieance on overly complicated shit. Step on a blue dynadisk and drink a coffee while curling and and farting and you must have great balance! Then they walk outside and crack their skull off the ground after slipping on ice. I seriously ask some of the trainers I work with if they would do curls on a bosu ball and they say no, so I ask them why would they do that with a client if they know its fucking worthless. I think the most important thing a personal trainer can do is to take the time to get someone strong. Most people dont come to their trainer enough to rely on that as their sole exercise for a week, so the main thing is getting people active on their own. Most people are too fat to be able to work hard enough 2-3 times a week to combat their shitty diets and fact that they never move unless you are telling them to. And think alot of trainers push their clients too hard or improperly, so its either too much, or too little usually.
I beleive that a trainer should help someone in the gym who they are not training.
This way, you could pick up another client if your lucky.
In my gym, the trainers do not inspire much confidence. Only have i seen one guy actually look like he wanted to be there. The others are basically hitting on any girl in there or just chatting away with their mates.
How about being a liar and a cheat. I was invited by a “PT” to visit his club once. He knew I was working out at another club, but he wanted me to workout with him. Anyway, we talked and I mentioned I wasn’t happy with the diet advice I was getting at my club. The trainer there is pretty experienced at lifting weights and gives solid advice, most of the time, but he recommended I’d go on a 1500 cal/day diet to loose weight. At that time, I was eating 3000 cal/dag…
So he figured that was the angle he’d use to “recruit me”.
He asked me to hold this Omron (sp?) device with both hands so it would measure my fat%. But as I was holding it, I noticed he had set it to “female”. I asked if all the settings were ok, he assured me they were. Of course, the reported fat% was way higher than the skinfold I had the week before at my club.
I decided to stay with my old club.
[quote]JimmyOZ wrote:
I beleive that a trainer should help someone in the gym who they are not training.
This way, you could pick up another client if your lucky.
In my gym, the trainers do not inspire much confidence. Only have i seen one guy actually look like he wanted to be there. The others are basically hitting on any girl in there or just chatting away with their mates. [/quote]
If a trainer comes up to me to give me unsolicited advice my response to him will be (in a loud voice): “Do you know me? Do you know anything about me? What my goals are, what my limitations are? Have I hired you? No? Then why do you think you have any kind of relevent comment or advice I might be interested in?” And I will turn on my heel and walk away.
Cardinal rule of the gym: never approach someone you don’t know and offer them unsolicited advice. Unless they are about to do bodily harm to themselves or someone else, keep your mouth shut.
[quote]gojira wrote:
JimmyOZ wrote:
I beleive that a trainer should help someone in the gym who they are not training.
This way, you could pick up another client if your lucky.
In my gym, the trainers do not inspire much confidence. Only have i seen one guy actually look like he wanted to be there. The others are basically hitting on any girl in there or just chatting away with their mates.
If a trainer comes up to me to give me unsolicited advice my response to him will be (in a loud voice): “Do you know me? Do you know anything about me? What my goals are, what my limitations are? Have I hired you? No? Then why do you think you have any kind of relevent comment or advice I might be interested in?” And I will turn on my heel and walk away.
Cardinal rule of the gym: never approach someone you don’t know and offer them unsolicited advice. Unless they are about to do bodily harm to themselves or someone else, keep your mouth shut. [/quote]
Hey, i agree, my point, which i didnt clarify, was that if a trainer sees someone using bad form, then they say something to them to correct them… i dont think that what you described in your post has happened around me.
[quote]Kinetix wrote:
FairDo wrote:
That’s a new and definitely good point here!
Totaly agree, PT’s are supposed to be “THE ONEs” within any centre (or rather are allegedly), those with greater and more thorough knowledge - in comparison to ordinary instructors (at least this is the way it works in UK). And that “status” makes them cocky and arrogant to say the least.
However, what REALLY bugs me, is the fact that they (majority of them) totally ignore everybody who is not their “prospect”.
It does not matter that that someone is wracking his/her shoulders on lat pull-down or screws up something else performing some crazy, not seen before movement, but NO way PT is going to stop by, have a chat, correct, help out (for free).
Not in a million years!
Thanks for bringing this one!
It’s been years since I worked in a commercial facility, but I remember people being particularly rude because they thought they knew what they were doing.
Besides, does your doctor operate on you for free?
[/quote]
With full respect, but this is BS!!!
according to the Socrates oath, “every effort should be made to keep a patient alive regardless of his physical ailment or condition”
can anybody see there money or security policy mentioned?
That’s their F***ing duty - but politics and your govs that make it different!
similar with PTs - that’s their freak-ing job, duty to help people!
If a trainer can not find a way to approach someone and correct him/her when he/she is screwing up his shoulder/lower back or else . . . then, in my opinion (and I am entilted to one) this trainer is in a wrong job or industry altogether
I’ve spent most part of my last 17 years in a gym and prior to that competing in other sports, and I’be been training folks for a number of years too.
and in my view, a bit of common sense and courtesy will take you all the way.
I wouldn’t let someody do something really stupid (unless they ARE really stupid, then I watch and enjoy) 
somewhat mischievous , ah?
Regards,
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
How about being a liar and a cheat. I was invited by a “PT” to visit his club once. He knew I was working out at another club, but he wanted me to workout with him. Anyway, we talked and I mentioned I wasn’t happy with the diet advice I was getting at my club. The trainer there is pretty experienced at lifting weights and gives solid advice, most of the time, but he recommended I’d go on a 1500 cal/day diet to loose weight. At that time, I was eating 3000 cal/dag…
So he figured that was the angle he’d use to “recruit me”.
He asked me to hold this Omron (sp?) device with both hands so it would measure my fat%. But as I was holding it, I noticed he had set it to “female”. I asked if all the settings were ok, he assured me they were. Of course, the reported fat% was way higher than the skinfold I had the week before at my club.
I decided to stay with my old club.[/quote]
I guess is that he was a unethical moron anyway - this omron device is soooo unreliable.
I have got a bloody thing - funcy gimmic, but of little use.
Just a quick play with it and you realise that it shows porky pies
[quote]arsefluff wrote:
hi all - first post here
im a personal trainer in ireland - reading T-Nation since day one !
i agree with a lot of the abuse and hostility towards trainers - ive been on courses and sat next to fat guys who didnt know what protein was , ive been told by tutors that the serratus is the longest muscle in the leg and that pumpkin seeds are the best quality of protein money can buy !
just want to point out we are not all created equal - i had a girl today deadlift 100 kg and do 12 chin ups - she does no cardio and now has abs since dropping from 60 to 50 kg
some clients i have will been carb cycling , others try one rep maxes or german volume training etc etc -most can do dips , chins , or bodyweight squats deads , bench etc
we dont all rely on swiss balls , dynabands and cardio machines (none of which i use)
rant over - just wanted to step away from the brush we have all been tarred with thanks to the numpties out there who work as trainers yet have no clue
neil
[/quote]
you are my Hero!
Absolutely NO sarcasm here!
Best of Luck,
A lot of the things I’m reading here have nothing to do with personal trainers. A lot of it is about common courtesy and decency. If you (non-trainer) see someone hurting themselves in the Gym, do you not say anything and wait for the Trainer to help. If that’s the case, you’re just as much of a moron.
Trainers should know about their client’s goals, abilities, and minimally basic physiolgy. But as someone else said, there are morons in every field. How often do you take a car to the mechanic and he’s smoking a cigarette over an open hood and talking on the phone. He bills you $600 and your car is no better than before, maybe even with more problems. Does this mean all mechanics are morons? No.
Don’t judge all Trainers based on some of the dummies out there.
most of them piss me off but the one at my gym helped me with my form on the clean im just learning this excercise and he was very helpfulmade sure i kept my back stable
After reading this thread I feel very lucky. I live in New Mexico and train in the middle of the night, a PT there noticed I was coming in every night and called me over, he proceeded to give me some training advice and a routine to follow, he then followed that up with giving me examples of how to DL and squat properly.
[quote]GymGeek wrote:
A lot of the things I’m reading here have nothing to do with personal trainers. A lot of it is about common courtesy and decency. If you (non-trainer) see someone hurting themselves in the Gym, do you not say anything and wait for the Trainer to help. If that’s the case, you’re just as much of a moron.
Trainers should know about their client’s goals, abilities, and minimally basic physiolgy. But as someone else said, there are morons in every field. How often do you take a car to the mechanic and he’s smoking a cigarette over an open hood and talking on the phone. He bills you $600 and your car is no better than before, maybe even with more problems. Does this mean all mechanics are morons? No.
Don’t judge all Trainers based on some of the dummies out there.[/quote]
Surely NOT all trainers are “bad”!
Statistically speaking (you’ve started that), like in any other walk of life, you can find approximately 20% retards, on the other extreme 20% of brilliance and around 60% of the full spectrum of the mediocre (from these bordering with really good ones to those from the other side of the “middle” spectrum neighboring with morons - see the adopted Gaussian Distribution above).
The same applies to fitness profession!
You could say that only 20% idiots is “Not SO Bad”. And I agree. This is to be expected and we have to take the rough with the smooth.
However, looking at fitness profession from Sports, S&C Coaching perspective, you’ll have to agree that in this comparison, general standard of PTs and fitness instructors is rather poor. And so that suggest, that above mentioned 60% of these “not bad” guys are overall “Not so good” anyway, although still falling in the very middle of a “fitness lot” (if it makes sense)
Hey, I am trying to make my living off training as well and I am not attempting to discredit the whole profession.
I realize that there are some REALLY GOOD guys out there. I only wish there were more of them.
Problem is that industry does not encourage knowledge and real professionalism. Very often Instructors and Personal Trainers are recruited for the certain “type of personality” (read: willingness to kiss members’ bums maintaining a big grin on their faces) and NOT for their knowledge, expertise and skills.
Put it differently, these guys are in demand and searched for.
Sad state of affairs.
Regards,
[quote]Kinetix wrote:
djbige05 wrote:
Actually look like the work out…The trainers should be one of the biggest most in shape people in the gym…plus most guys train only women or teenages that have no clue whats going on anyway…
Consider, perhaps, that the biggest guys in the gym are likely not natural. Any trainer preaching health while being totally chemically enhanced is a complete hypocrite.
Also remember that the ability to teach and the ability to do are not always found in the same person.[/quote]
You’re exactly right. Even with it’s not steroids, many trainers are bodybuilders who compete and are genetically gifted in which case, EVERYTHING works for them. They become trainers b/c 1) They think they know everything about working out since everything they do works, and 2) they can make money doing something they love doing - hanging out in a gym all day.
Many times (most times actually) the best teachers can’t do it as well themselves. That’s how they became so knowledgeable b/c the things that work for most people didn’t work for them. So they had to study and learn about the body, read about every type of training and learn everything there is to learn about nutrition b/c without it, they couldn’t make any gains. Those are the guys that are the best instructors/trainers. That’s how I got my start.
[quote]FairDo wrote:
I realize that there are some REALLY GOOD guys out there. I only wish there were more of them.
Problem is that industry does not encourage knowledge and real professionalism. Very often Instructors and Personal Trainers are recruited for the certain “type of personality” (read: willingness to kiss members’ bums maintaining a big grin on their faces) and NOT for their knowledge, expertise and skills.
Put it differently, these guys are in demand and searched for.
Sad state of affairs.
Regards,
[/quote]
Actually, the reason why most trainers in gyms suck, is because they get paid peanuts. One of the big chains in my area charges $70-80 per session depending on the package size. How much do you think the trainer gets? $30? $25? Try $12. That’s right, $12 to start!!! I think if they are there a bunch of years and get X number of certification and degrees they can get $20 per hour.
So the reality is, if you are any good, you’re going to work for a high-level private facility or you’re going to work on your own and train in people’s homes. The better trainers do this and that’s why you never see them. They’re not in the commercial gym b/c most trainers in the gyms are only making $15-30k a year. I know in Jersey, you can’t even afford a one-bedroom apartment on less than $30k a year!
The only people that are trainers in gyms are either just starting out (not experienced or very knowledgeable), not very good (if they were good they’d have a large following and work for themselves charging $70 or more per hour) or they’re just doing it until they find something else or until they graduate from school (which again means they aren’t very good or knowledgeable).
That’s the reality of the situation, folks.
[quote]FairDo wrote:
GymGeek wrote:
A lot of the things I’m reading here have nothing to do with personal trainers. A lot of it is about common courtesy and decency. If you (non-trainer) see someone hurting themselves in the Gym, do you not say anything and wait for the Trainer to help. If that’s the case, you’re just as much of a moron.
Trainers should know about their client’s goals, abilities, and minimally basic physiolgy. But as someone else said, there are morons in every field. How often do you take a car to the mechanic and he’s smoking a cigarette over an open hood and talking on the phone. He bills you $600 and your car is no better than before, maybe even with more problems. Does this mean all mechanics are morons? No.
Don’t judge all Trainers based on some of the dummies out there.
Surely NOT all trainers are “bad”!
Statistically speaking (you’ve started that), like in any other walk of life, you can find approximately 20% retards, on the other extreme 20% of brilliance and around 60% of the full spectrum of the mediocre (from these bordering with really good ones to those from the other side of the “middle” spectrum neighboring with morons - see the adopted Gaussian Distribution above).
The same applies to fitness profession!
You could say that only 20% idiots is “Not SO Bad”. And I agree. This is to be expected and we have to take the rough with the smooth.
However, looking at fitness profession from Sports, S&C Coaching perspective, you’ll have to agree that in this comparison, general standard of PTs and fitness instructors is rather poor. And so that suggest, that above mentioned 60% of these “not bad” guys are overall “Not so good” anyway, although still falling in the very middle of a “fitness lot” (if it makes sense)
Hey, I am trying to make my living off training as well and I am not attempting to discredit the whole profession.
I realize that there are some REALLY GOOD guys out there. I only wish there were more of them.
Problem is that industry does not encourage knowledge and real professionalism. Very often Instructors and Personal Trainers are recruited for the certain “type of personality” (read: willingness to kiss members’ bums maintaining a big grin on their faces) and NOT for their knowledge, expertise and skills.
Put it differently, these guys are in demand and searched for.
Sad state of affairs.
Regards,
[/quote]
ooooops… forgot this one before… so here it goes . . . Gauss
[quote]FairDo wrote:
vroom wrote:
It does not matter that that someone is wracking his/her shoulders on lat pull-down or screws up something else performing some crazy, not seen before movement, but NO way PT is going to stop by, have a chat, correct, help out (for free).
Not in a million years!
Thanks for bringing this one!
[/quote]
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make em drink, and sometimes the motherfuckers fall in and drowned.
I’ve tried to be nice and correct so many people but as soon as I turn my back their right back to the same ol shitty form. Best yet are the ones that think I’m tring to show off and be arrogant,“Fuck him what does he know. 20 year old punk”
Needless to say I quit correcting.