[quote]giograves wrote:
3-4 lbs of muscle distributed over the entire body may not be that visible on some frames. So if you don’t look at the scale, how do you know your eating enough?
How does someone advanced who probably wont gain more than 5 lbs of muscle in a year stay in a caloric surplus over the week and not get fat?[/quote]
A body tape measure will not lie to you…
Just curious, how big was everyone’s waistline while permabulking ballpark? (at the navel)
[quote]Depression Boy wrote:
Fat won’t increase strength at Majin’s level. You do realize Majin puts you to shame with both his physique and his lifts? There’s a reason our resident RD has made a thread dedicated to his training. Read it and you may learn something.[/quote]
Bwahahaha, I hope this was a joke. 
The reason it didn’t give me more strength was because I was already eating a surplus and pushing all I can (not a lot, haha) when I began bulking. And while I made progress during that phase, it wasn’t anything special. There was no “turbo boost” that I expected. But being fatter certainly made handling heavy weights for low reps easier. I like how Brick put it - “cracking” a weight instead of struggling with it. There are definitely some advantages to it, but more setbacks, IMO.
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
Just curious, how big was everyone’s waistline while permabulking ballpark? (at the navel)
[/quote]
When I was coming down from permabulking I was fitted for a suit at 40 inches. That’s not at the navel. So maybe 36 at the navel and for a jean’s size. I went up to 38 inch jeans while permabulking and some of those started fitting snug.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
Just curious, how big was everyone’s waistline while permabulking ballpark? (at the navel)
[/quote]
When I was coming down from permabulking I was fitted for a suit at 40 inches. That’s not at the navel. So maybe 36 at the navel and for a jean’s size. I went up to 38 inch jeans while permabulking and some of those started fitting snug. [/quote]
shit, at previous gyms I’ve been to, there were huge looking guys with 46" waists.
Any body fat levels that would define permabulking 20% plus?
I tried eating like a BB and truthfully I hated it. And being fat ain’t cool, no matter what some delusional meatsheads think. Good thread.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
At what point while on surplus does a lifter cross the line and become a bermabulker?
6 months?
1 year?
2 years?
More?
Or is it just a matter of body comp. regardless of duration? [/quote]
I think, like my other post said, it’s a matter of body comp.
PermaBulker: someone who bulks for years on end without every dieting to respectable levels of leanness.
DreamBulker: someone who gets on that “see food” diet thinking they’ll get huge. See Mac from Its Always Sunny[/quote]
I agree with Greg here. Duration and bf levels don’t matter per se, but rather the delusion that all the fast and large scale weight increases due to overeating are mostly muscles is at the heart of “permabulking”.
So, perhaps DelusionalBulker is the best term, but DreamBulker works as well.
Not a permabulker, but definitely a disillusioned bulker. Went from 170lbs and a ~ 32 inch waist to a little over 200lbs and a 37 inch waist in about a 4 month period. I kept telling myself “you can gain 2lbs of muscle a week! make it happen!” I only gained an inch on my arms for 30lbs gained, yet 5 inches on my waist. I thought I was getting hyooge til I took a picture in the mirror and pulled out a tape measure.
Unlike a majority of the responses, I don’t think I ate that dirty. I just ate more food. I don’t know about macros, just tried to get 1.5x bw in protein and around 3500 calories on training days. Off days were usually 3000 calories but also typical weekend included pizza and getting wasted every weekend.
I dieted from 200 to 180 with the Anabolic Diet in a matter of 4 months with still drinking a bit as part of my carb ups. Introducing carbs bumped me up to 185, but I got even leaner. Then injured, and eventually down to a skinny fat 170ish.
I made the same mistake a second time and went from 170ish to 190ish in 4 months thinking I was I was being smarter, slower gains, etc. Cycled calories a little bit. Ended up fat again. Just not as fat. Got back down to a non skinny fat 170ish with IF.
I’ve never went crazy with fast food, etc. The only time I’ve eaten a lot of junk was when I tried CBL for a stint. I think because I was a bit chubby in my early teens, I’ve had a more difficult time trying to bulk up. I’m trying to gain again, but I’ve set limits for how big I’ll let my waist get. I also expect other measurements (chest, shoulders, arms, thighs) to go up if my waist does… just not at what proportion.
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
Just curious, how big was everyone’s waistline while permabulking ballpark? (at the navel)
[/quote]
I remember mine pretty clear. With a 30 pound weight gain, mine were
Waist size 32/33 to a 36
Jacket size 43 to a 44
Gained 1" on my arms
I would say that I probably put in 5 lbs of muscle but I felt like shit.
Would I do it this way again? Hell no.
Am I glad I did it? Absolutely. Because now I know how my body responds better. It’s one thing to read and learn about it, another thing entirely to experience it.
[quote]gtl wrote:
Not a permabulker, but definitely a disillusioned bulker. Went from 170lbs and a ~ 32 inch waist to a little over 200lbs and a 37 inch waist in about a 4 month period.
[…]
Got back down to a non skinny fat 170ish with IF.[/quote]
I actually find it very interesting that you went from 170… to 170ish.
I went from 135 to nearly 160, then back to 135 due to illness, and now I’m sitting right above 150. I look a lot better right now at 150 than I did at 158.
Still using the scale to make sure I’m growing, but I’m in no rush this time around. Right now I’m targeting 165 but with comparable leanness to when I was 135. Once I hit that point, then I’ll head back into a surplus and go from there.
Waistline, not much. From 32" to 34". I was wearing a lot of loose clothing at the time so hardly noticed it. Upper body is a whole other issue. Getting an xl t-shirt that wasn’t too long for a 5’8 dude was really annoying.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]8020beef wrote:
Better question who here on this site has a impressive physique that didn’t dirty bulk at one time??[/quote]
This has been brought up many times, and it’s highly flawed. Just because many people experience the same thing along the road to success doesn’t mean that thing is necessary. Many rich people have gone bankrupt once in their lives, but going bankrupt isn’t recommended for becoming rich.
Many good people have done dumb or counterproductive stuff in their lives. That doesn’t mean it’s in others’ best interest to follow suit. [/quote]
To echo, your logical fallacy, 8020beef, is post hoc ergo propter hoc. Just because y happened after x doesn’t mean x was the cause.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]gtl wrote:
Not a permabulker, but definitely a disillusioned bulker. Went from 170lbs and a ~ 32 inch waist to a little over 200lbs and a 37 inch waist in about a 4 month period.
[…]
Got back down to a non skinny fat 170ish with IF.[/quote]
I actually find it very interesting that you went from 170… to 170ish.
I went from 135 to nearly 160, then back to 135 due to illness, and now I’m sitting right above 150. I look a lot better right now at 150 than I did at 158.
Still using the scale to make sure I’m growing, but I’m in no rush this time around. Right now I’m targeting 165 but with comparable leanness to when I was 135. Once I hit that point, then I’ll head back into a surplus and go from there.[/quote]
Agreed. From 170-200, back down to 180, and with the rebound to 185 from re-introducing carbs, I was leaner than I was at 170. So I actually did end up gaining ~15lbs LBM.
When I went back down to 170 from injury/etc, I lost LBM to the point of looking worse than I did at my original 170. So, again, bulked, and dieted, and ended back up at 170, but in much better condition.
[quote]giograves wrote:
3-4 lbs of muscle distributed over the entire body may not be that visible on some frames. So if you don’t look at the scale, how do you know your eating enough?
How does someone advanced who probably wont gain more than 5 lbs of muscle in a year stay in a caloric surplus over the week and not get fat?[/quote]
This guy is on point.
When you are lucky to bump up a couple lbs over a year, do you think you can track the fraction of a lb per month by eyeballin it? Tape measure lol not so much.
I still do the bulk/cut, granted with much better food choices and much briefer cut periods because its nice to increase the scale weight over several weeks to be assured of growth, then dial it back for a week or a two.
However there are some fond memories back when I ate literally everything I could. Children were starving in other places of the world and poor babies were gonna stay that way cuz I Was eating everything on this side. Luckily I never got fat either way.
College cafeteria. As much as you can eat with anything you could want without having to cook? Sign me the fuck up. Breakfast was a giant waffle, bacon+eggs (2 servings), about a cup of peanut butter mixed with honey, a bowl of some sugary cereal and a giant glass of milk with protein powder in it. Lunch was indigestion. During dinner they had some troublesome rule about not being able to get 2nds until you finish your first plate, which is understandable but annoying and every time there was a new cafe worker I would try and every time they weren’t having it. Even dieting was easy, 3 plates of spinach and hard boiled eggs that I didn’t have to peel? Dream land.
Post workout CiCi’s pizza. Fuckin killed it, and I would go in about 2-3pm right between lunch and dinner where they didn’t wanna make any pizza that would go to waste, eat everything on the line and a little of the new replacement stuff and leave. Like most of my relationships they ended up hating me and I loved them so much.
1/2 jar of peanut butter, raisins, honey, and olive oil mixed up and eaten with a spoon in addition to meals every single day. Working as a waiter sometimes the hours are long and unless you plan on scavenging off peoples plates you need a contingency plan. This shit tore my stomach up but I successfully gained at least 15 lbs off this before I couldnt do it anymore.
it would be interesting if you guys put a permabulking vs your current diet for comparison. i.e. same foods, different portions, or entirely different foods…IIFYM vs clean bro foods.
i myself am coming off the permabulk train, only 2 weeks into it, and strength and size dropping.
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
it would be interesting if you guys put a permabulking vs your current diet for comparison. i.e. same foods, different portions, or entirely different foods…IIFYM vs clean bro foods.
i myself am coming off the permabulk train, only 2 weeks into it, and strength and size dropping.[/quote]
Are you hitting certain macros, or just eating “less” and “cleaner?” I would try to calculate what your average numbers would have roughly been the way you were previously eating, and make smart adjustments from there. Because if you were eating, let’s say, 4500 cals per day and now you decided to eat less or cut out certain foods, you might’ve dropped your daily intake to 3000 cals or even lower. I would guess you made too big of an initial drop if you’re already noticing strength loss after only a few weeks
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
i myself am coming off the permabulk train, only 2 weeks into it, and strength and size dropping.[/quote]
Are you losing ‘size’ that was fat? And are you still eating enough to meet your actual nutrient needs?
S
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
it would be interesting if you guys put a permabulking vs your current diet for comparison. i.e. same foods, different portions, or entirely different foods…IIFYM vs clean bro foods.
i myself am coming off the permabulk train, only 2 weeks into it, and strength and size dropping.[/quote]
at 230-240
Meal 1:
8 xl eggs
4 pieces of toast with peanut butter
Meal 2:
2 scoops whey in 2% milk
Meal 3:
1 Orvs supreme frozen pizza
Meal 4:
1lb ground chuck 1 pound gnocchi or kraft homestyle mac n cheese
Meal 5:
4 sc whey in 2% milk
Not listed: snack food. Sometimes a whole bag of sun chips, etc
I made life easy by 1 package= 1 serving
Yesterday
Meal 1:
1 banana
1 sc milk protein in almond milk
Meal 2
egg beaters
1 cup oats
1 tablespoon kerrygold butter
Meal 3
2sc milk protein
almond milk
Meal 4:
ground sirloin
broccoli
sweet potato
1tablespoon kerrygold butter
Meal 5:
Egg beaters
honeycrisp apple
spinach
1 tablespoon kerrygold butter
1 tablespoon olive oil
1 & 2 - Everything was weighed to the gram.
Meal 1 - 1 cup oats, 2 tablespoons peanut butter, 2 scoops whey, 16 oz whole milk.
Meal 2 - 8 oz. beef ( 90/10), 6 oz red potatoes, 1 can green beans.
Meal 3 - 8 oz. beef, 6 oz red potatoes, 1 can asparagus.
Meal 4 - 4 eggs, 3 oz low fat ham, 2 oz cheddar cheese.
Meal 5 - 2 cans tuna, 2 cups cottage cheese, 1 bagel.
I cheated once every two Sundays. Usually an extra large supreme pizza and an order of hot wings.
I really don’t think this was that extreme of a menu, but I was gaining at least 10 or more pounds a month for a long time.
3 - I loved feeling huge, seeing the scale go up and getting stronger on my favorite lifts.
4 - Walking around in public and seeing pity in people eyes about my obesity. Wearing 44 inch jeans also sucked.
5 - I wanted to be huge and get there quickly.
I feel like I’m the most delusional and troubled poster in this thread. I’m 5’5" and I got to 291 in about 2 years. I couldn’t figure out why I was gaining so much so fast. Turns out I have a lot of endocrine issues that was making me a obese.
[quote]Nevmatt wrote:
I feel like I’m the most delusional and troubled poster in this thread. I’m 5’5" and I got to 291 in about 2 years. I couldn’t figure out why I was gaining so much so fast. Turns out I have a lot of endocrine issues that was making me a obese.[/quote]
Wow, at least you’ve hopefully gained some better perspective now. I don’t know how old you are, but I find that it’s usually the younger crowd that gets sucked into the force feeding growth trap. All being younger means is that in addition to healing and recovering quicker, your hormone profiles are more suited to support muscle growth (as opposed to a guy in his late 40’s who might struggle a bit even if he just started training). Even in a better environment, you’re still always going to be limited by how much your body is physically (genetically) capable of synthesizing, and no matter how loudly or crazily you may want it to be different, it’s not.
Of course, I’ve no doubt that your medical situation factored in quite a bit, at least in terms of the physical change. In hindsight, how badly were you overeating vs how much of a factor do you believe your endocrine situation was?
How’d you get yourself back on track?
(As an aside to this topic, and I’m fairly certain I posted this in another thread, it costs the average human body ~2500 calories to support the process of building a single lb of new muscle tissue. Gaining a solid lb of muscle a month ‘unassisted’ is a very impressive accomplishment. Consider how many extra calories that breaks down to eating beyond your current needs.)
S
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
it would be interesting if you guys put a permabulking vs your current diet for comparison. i.e. same foods, different portions, or entirely different foods…IIFYM vs clean bro foods.
i myself am coming off the permabulk train, only 2 weeks into it, and strength and size dropping.[/quote]
Are you hitting certain macros, or just eating “less” and “cleaner?” I would try to calculate what your average numbers would have roughly been the way you were previously eating, and make smart adjustments from there. Because if you were eating, let’s say, 4500 cals per day and now you decided to eat less or cut out certain foods, you might’ve dropped your daily intake to 3000 cals or even lower. I would guess you made too big of an initial drop if you’re already noticing strength loss after only a few weeks[/quote]
when i tracked a normal day of eating it ended up around 2800-3500 cals if i ate at home. if i ate out for one meal it couldve gotten up to maybe 4500 cals.
my diet now im getting enough calories, but getting them from cleaner foods. all my carbs are from fruits and veggies with maybe some rice or sweet potatoes thrown in, instead of breads, pastas, pizza and subs.
its just going to be an adjustment in the strength department. plus the strength loss in squats is from not having a belly full of food to bounce off of in the hole