[quote]LoRez wrote:
Maybe this deserves its own thread, but is is it possible to bulk too slowly? Are there negatives to getting bigger and stronger, but really only adding a pound every few weeks, if that?[/quote]
If you’re getting bigger and stronger while only gaining a pound every two weeks or so why would you care?
This fixation with the scale is such a dated philosophy. A pound every two weeks or so is 20-25 pounds in a year. Gaining at that rate would probably result in minimal fat gain. That would be a crazy before an after photo of a years progress.[/quote]
That was my take on it. I’d made the mistake of focusing on scale weight when I first started out. It never got to a point of being bad, but it didn’t do me much good either. I lost most of that due to random life stuff.
Now I’m working on regaining that back, but slowly. I’m still weak and skinny, but I’m much better off now than I was. The calories are high enough to grow (because everything is still going up), but I’m not trying to push it with the food.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Maybe this deserves its own thread, but is is it possible to bulk too slowly? Are there negatives to getting bigger and stronger, but really only adding a pound every few weeks, if that?[/quote]
If you’re getting bigger and stronger while only gaining a pound every two weeks or so why would you care?
This fixation with the scale is such a dated philosophy. A pound every two weeks or so is 20-25 pounds in a year. Gaining at that rate would probably result in minimal fat gain. That would be a crazy before an after photo of a years progress.[/quote]
That was my take on it. I’d made the mistake of focusing on scale weight when I first started out. It never got to a point of being bad, but it didn’t do me much good either. I lost most of that due to random life stuff.
Now I’m working on regaining that back, but slowly. I’m still weak and skinny, but I’m much better off now than I was. The calories are high enough to grow (because everything is still going up), but I’m not trying to push it with the food.[/quote]
I think everyone started out that way. Most guys I know started lifting in highschool for sports and it was all about getting stronger and hitting a weight goal for next season. “I just gotta get up to 175 and ill be good.” “Coach is moving me to outside linebacker so I gotta get to 190!” And so on and so forth.
People get this mindset of wanting to be 200 pounds (or whatever) and chase that goal when scale weight shouldn’t be the priority if your gold are physique oriented.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Maybe this deserves its own thread, but is is it possible to bulk too slowly? Are there negatives to getting bigger and stronger, but really only adding a pound every few weeks, if that?[/quote]
If you’re getting bigger and stronger while only gaining a pound every two weeks or so why would you care?
This fixation with the scale is such a dated philosophy. A pound every two weeks or so is 20-25 pounds in a year. Gaining at that rate would probably result in minimal fat gain. That would be a crazy before an after photo of a years progress.[/quote]
That was my take on it. I’d made the mistake of focusing on scale weight when I first started out. It never got to a point of being bad, but it didn’t do me much good either. I lost most of that due to random life stuff.
Now I’m working on regaining that back, but slowly. I’m still weak and skinny, but I’m much better off now than I was. The calories are high enough to grow (because everything is still going up), but I’m not trying to push it with the food.[/quote]
I think everyone started out that way. Most guys I know started lifting in highschool for sports and it was all about getting stronger and hitting a weight goal for next season. “I just gotta get up to 175 and ill be good.” “Coach is moving me to outside linebacker so I gotta get to 190!” And so on and so forth.
People get this mindset of wanting to be 200 pounds (or whatever) and chase that goal when scale weight shouldn’t be the priority if your gold are physique oriented.[/quote]
There definitely is an advantage of scale weight in sports like football. Junior year I wrestled at 171 lbs and then bulked to 210 for football season doing the see food diet. I didn’t ever get too sloppy in high school.
Fast forward to college and I do the anabolic diet for a year or so. Tons of bacon and eggs, beef, pepperoni, cheese, etc. I got to be a pretty chunky 220 lbs because my “carb ups” consistent of endless amount of beer, liquor and drunk food.
I cleaned up everything and managed to get down to 190 with a 4 pack. I never want to be “big”
again if I am not comfortable doing the shirt test.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Maybe this deserves its own thread, but is is it possible to bulk too slowly? Are there negatives to getting bigger and stronger, but really only adding a pound every few weeks, if that?[/quote]
If you’re getting bigger and stronger while only gaining a pound every two weeks or so why would you care?
This fixation with the scale is such a dated philosophy. A pound every two weeks or so is 20-25 pounds in a year. Gaining at that rate would probably result in minimal fat gain. That would be a crazy before an after photo of a years progress.[/quote]
Exactly! All these “[Insert Monster Body Builder Here] ate all of this stuff and gained 20lbs in 1 month!” is all smoke and mirrors.
It’s really no different than losing weight. If someone lost 20lbs in 1 month, everyone would cry foul and point out “it’s water weight, glycogen stores, some muscle and some fat” and that it’s impossible to lose 20lbs of fat in 1 month.
So why is it everyone has this notion that you can gain 20lbs of muscle in a month? [/quote]
The only people that have that notion are the same ones who beleive you CAN lose 20 lbs in a month.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Maybe this deserves its own thread, but is is it possible to bulk too slowly? Are there negatives to getting bigger and stronger, but really only adding a pound every few weeks, if that?[/quote]
If you’re getting bigger and stronger while only gaining a pound every two weeks or so why would you care?
This fixation with the scale is such a dated philosophy. A pound every two weeks or so is 20-25 pounds in a year. Gaining at that rate would probably result in minimal fat gain. That would be a crazy before an after photo of a years progress.[/quote]
I agree with this, as an older lifter (45) when I started at 16 everyone focused on weight gain. Your coaches, fellow trainees and virtually all the magazines did this. Depending on where you are at mentally and emotionally that can influence you for years. It did me for close to 15 years and by then it became very difficult to overcome the negatives…
For me those were extreme hunger, extreme cravings for carbs and salt and fear of ‘shrinking’.
You can laugh at the latter all you want but after focusing on getting huge at all costs for 15 years it will take a while to address this. Your habits form your character over time and I used to freak out when losing some weight. It took me a long time to loo at my physique differently. Full house is very ‘addicting’ if that makes sense…
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Maybe this deserves its own thread, but is is it possible to bulk too slowly? Are there negatives to getting bigger and stronger, but really only adding a pound every few weeks, if that?[/quote]
If you’re getting bigger and stronger while only gaining a pound every two weeks or so why would you care?
This fixation with the scale is such a dated philosophy. A pound every two weeks or so is 20-25 pounds in a year. Gaining at that rate would probably result in minimal fat gain. That would be a crazy before an after photo of a years progress.[/quote]
Exactly! All these “[Insert Monster Body Builder Here] ate all of this stuff and gained 20lbs in 1 month!” is all smoke and mirrors.
It’s really no different than losing weight. If someone lost 20lbs in 1 month, everyone would cry foul and point out “it’s water weight, glycogen stores, some muscle and some fat” and that it’s impossible to lose 20lbs of fat in 1 month.
So why is it everyone has this notion that you can gain 20lbs of muscle in a month? [/quote]
The only people that have that notion are the same ones who beleive you CAN lose 20 lbs in a month. [/quote]
I hate that advice. Bulk bulk bulk as fast as you can because cutting is easy and fast you ecto!
[quote]gregron wrote:
Looking like you live in the gym > looking like you live in the all you can eat buffet.[/quote]
This is so true. Ultimately bodybuilding is about having the best body possible and permabulking certainly isn’t the way to get there (since you’ll never get lean)[/quote]
Technically true comeptition bbing is about looking crazy amazing one day
You can laugh at the latter all you want but after focusing on getting huge at all costs for 15 years it will take a while to address this. Your habits form your character over time and I used to freak out when losing some weight. It took me a long time to loo at my physique differently. Full house is very ‘addicting’ if that makes sense…[/quote]
This makes a lot of sense. Thibs has talked about how many times he would “bail out” of a diet as he watched himself shrink after seeing himself a big ol’ Olympic lifter for so many years. I would think that anyone who has formed a long term habit, in efforts to achieve a goal, is susceptible to losing some sense of objectivity after a while. I had no clue what I looked like when I did my very first contest, and even now, whining about my bum shoulder, I’m certainly not ‘small’ when I walk into a commercial gym, and yet I still feel like it.
The scale issue can be a common problem. Yes, it’s sometimes the only indicator for progress at the onset of training, but it’s hardly a good indicator of muscle growth, strength gain, or improved body composition. I had asked Chris Aceto a question somewhere else, and in responding, he mentioned that he never concerned himself with scale weights, only muscle gain which is visible.
Chinese takeout, chicken, milk powder, eggs, bologna and home fries got me from 180 to 220lb on 5’8" in under 2 years. I was following the scale.
I loved sweet and sour chicken for lunch at work. It was truly the shit.
Basically, the notion of watching yourself grow and being much larger than you’re used to is indeed very addictive. To echo what Stu said - having lost the blubber, I still view myself as somewhat small to this day.
I also loved the fact that I can gorge on the nasty foods I love not only without guilt, but with bold indignation.
What else? The lard of course. You feel like there’s so much muscle under there. Like it’s right there, here’s my muscle! I just need to do a little cardio and it’ll look amazing. Errr…no.
Like everyone else, I thought it was the ticket to big muscles. Not a chance. Looking back at my own results as well as everyone I see doing it - totally unnecessary to ever go above, say, 12% bf to get all the natural gains you can. Didn’t increase my strength either, strangely enough. I guess it’s because I did it after having gained my base of muscle. You live, you learn.
[quote]8020beef wrote:
Better question who here on this site has a impressive physique that didn’t dirty bulk at one time??[/quote]
“Dirty bulk” vs “clean bulk” is a matter of outcome IMO.
Is it really a “dirty bulk” if you pound pizza and Mc doubles all day bug have a crazy metabolism and are sub 15% BF no matter what? I say no.
[quote]8020beef wrote:
Better question who here on this site has a impressive physique that didn’t dirty bulk at one time??[/quote]
“Dirty bulk” vs “clean bulk” is a matter of outcome IMO.
Is it really a “dirty bulk” if you pound pizza and Mc doubles all day bug have a crazy metabolism and are sub 15% BF no matter what? I say no.[/quote]
Lol, you just described the diet that kept me at a lean 5’10 135 for all those years. It wasn’t until I was doing that + drinking a ton of milk that I started to gain ANY weight.
[quote]8020beef wrote:
Better question who here on this site has a impressive physique that didn’t dirty bulk at one time??[/quote]
This has been brought up many times, and it’s highly flawed. Just because many people experience the same thing along the road to success doesn’t mean that thing is necessary. Many rich people have gone bankrupt once in their lives, but going bankrupt isn’t recommended for becoming rich.
Many good people have done dumb or counterproductive stuff in their lives. That doesn’t mean it’s in others’ best interest to follow suit.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
When I look back on my obese permabulking days, I look back with both regret and nostalgia. Permabulking gave me some problems, but I also liked some aspects of it.
Perhaps we can share our permabulking stories. Here is a serious of questions.
What did your permabulking diet look like?
What was one of your permabulking regular meals?
What did you like about permabulking?
What didn’t you like?
Why did you permabulk?[/quote]
Sample day:
Breakfast: 1 lbs of ground beef (30% fat) with spaghetti noodles and meat sauce
Snack and lunch: 20 slices of bread with ham/cheese/lettuce (1 loaf a day was the goal)
Dinner: regular meat and potatoes with veggies plus protein shake and dessert
After training: 1/2 gallon milk, yoghurt, cheese and a carb source like mashed potatoes with carrots (Dutch dish, has lots of grass fed butter in it!)
Before bed: Cottage cheese with sour cream
See snack and lunch: this was during college (in Holland) and during my first years in the States…
I like the just massive amount of work I could do on all these calories. I could easily do 20 sets of really hard work per muscle group on this diet. Felt strong and pumped all day long and actually slept really well, if I remember correctly…
what I didn’t like is that it ruined my physique.
Although it got me up to 290lbs (no steroids) I have completely ruined my proportions. I started out exceptionally skinny weighing only 116 lbs at 6 ft. By the time I hit a ripped 176 lbs I still only saw that really skinny kid in the mirror. Didn’t matter that I was offered modeling gigs and that I got compliments on a daily basis. I kept pushing the envelope and worked my way up to 216 then 235 followed by 269 and finally 290. All on a bone structure of a Frank Zane.
Yes I was large, and very impressive looking (in clothes) and I was incredibly strong but I did NOT look like a bodybuilder and my 26 inch waist was gone. I also was not in proportion with a super thick back and quads yet arms (extremities really) that did not match.
The other thing I do not like is that as a result I am ravenously hungry almost all the time. Not easy for me to lose fat whereas before it was no issue.
why I started? I was 116 lbs at 6". I think virtually all of you can imagine the mental and emotional state that caused me to be in. I was also relentlessly bullied. Aside from being terribly skinny I had reddish hear, very, very pale skin with freckles as well as a stutter and you can see why I wanted to get to a size where no one messed with me.
Things is, I achieved that at 176-180 lbs and even more so at 216-225 lbs. There was never a reason to go all the way to 290 lbs.
Would not advice anyone to do this for more than 1-2 years. And only if they are under 150 lbs and tall, like I was. To anyone under 5’10" weighing more than 135 lbs when they start out, I’d say do not do this and aim for 2-3 lbs of mass gain a month for the first two years. Now, if that takes 6,000 calories a day…than go for it
I realize that it will not be linear and that some months you gain 1 and others you gain 5 lbs but gaining more than 20 lbs will likely lead to too much fat gain.[/quote]
That menu is insane! 20 slices of bread in a meal?!
I wrecked three pairs of khakis by fraying the groin area with my fat thighs.
2)I was always hungry!
Strangely, I would sweat and breath hard while eating, not because I ate fast, because I still eat pretty fast out of habit but this doesn’t happen anymore.
I sweat easily, and regularly stunk, so I had to carry deodorant to work and put it on in the bathroom at work. This increased my cleaners bill because clothes had to be washed more frequently.
My mom thought I looked terrible, seriously! At my biggest in permabulking, we were walking through a store together. I had on a Species baseball style T-shirt and Adidas pants. That morning I walked to the garbage room and some lady I barely know gave me a faux most muscular gesture as I nodded and said hello to her. My mom to this day says, "I’ll never forget the time we were walking through the store and I turned to you and I said to myself, “What is wrong with my son?”
Speaking of “faux most muscular” gestures, In a one year time span during my permabulking time, I had three people at work on different occasions, say to me, “You walk around like you’re all better than everyone,” while giving a hunched faux most muscular pose.
I did like watching the poundages in the big lifts go up. It seemed like, well, I don’t know how to describe; it felt like I could “crack” weights instead of struggle with them, as odd as this sounds. Now it seems more like a struggle as I don’t have the leverages I once did and also my form changed in the squat as my low-bar squat is not as effective as my high-bar squat now. Same with bench: I have to use a narrower grip now.
I never indulged as much as some here. I actually got fat by over-consuming most of the bodybuilding staples with three cheat meals per week.
Stu, I really like your posted response above… I myself have completely stopped using a scale and/or worrying about my weight. I concur with Chris Aceto that what is the most important are the visual gains. I have found body tape measuring to be far more helpful, truthful, informative, and/or realistic… what say you?
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
This makes a lot of sense. Thibs has talked about how many times he would “bail out” of a diet as he watched himself shrink after seeing himself a big ol’ Olympic lifter for so many years. I would think that anyone who has formed a long term habit, in efforts to achieve a goal, is susceptible to losing some sense of objectivity after a while. I had no clue what I looked like when I did my very first contest, and even now, whining about my bum shoulder, I’m certainly not ‘small’ when I walk into a commercial gym, and yet I still feel like it.
The scale issue can be a common problem. Yes, it’s sometimes the only indicator for progress at the onset of training, but it’s hardly a good indicator of muscle growth, strength gain, or improved body composition. I had asked Chris Aceto a question somewhere else, and in responding, he mentioned that he never concerned himself with scale weights, only muscle gain which is visible.
S[/quote]
You can laugh at the latter all you want but after focusing on getting huge at all costs for 15 years it will take a while to address this. Your habits form your character over time and I used to freak out when losing some weight. It took me a long time to loo at my physique differently. Full house is very ‘addicting’ if that makes sense…[/quote]
This makes a lot of sense. Thibs has talked about how many times he would “bail out” of a diet as he watched himself shrink after seeing himself a big ol’ Olympic lifter for so many years. I would think that anyone who has formed a long term habit, in efforts to achieve a goal, is susceptible to losing some sense of objectivity after a while. I had no clue what I looked like when I did my very first contest, and even now, whining about my bum shoulder, I’m certainly not ‘small’ when I walk into a commercial gym, and yet I still feel like it.
The scale issue can be a common problem. Yes, it’s sometimes the only indicator for progress at the onset of training, but it’s hardly a good indicator of muscle growth, strength gain, or improved body composition. I had asked Chris Aceto a question somewhere else, and in responding, he mentioned that he never concerned himself with scale weights, only muscle gain which is visible.
S[/quote]
Interesting of not paying any attention to scale weight. B/c muscle mass gain is fairly slow, wouldn’t it be one of many good measures to ensure you are on the right track on top of regular tape measures and monthly or quarterly caliper readings?
I put on 10lbs in 2.5 months and I don’t feel I look that different. Without having measured scale weight, tape measure, and caliper readings, I wouldn’t have guessed I put on muscle.
I permabulked for years, just wanted to be as huge as possible. Pizza, milk, yogurt, weight gainers, Chinese food, Mexican food. (in college, not now)
Just recently, at an all time weight of 240 (strong and looking “ok”, want to lose some fat), I am now ready to stop permabulking and start looking a little better. I’m done permabulking. I love being big and strong (and very mobile/agile for my size), but I want to be lean. Probably be happy at 230.
Like everyone else, I thought it was the ticket to big muscles. Not a chance. Looking back at my own results as well as everyone I see doing it - totally unnecessary to ever go above, say, 12% bf to get all the natural gains you can. Didn’t increase my strength either, strangely enough. I guess it’s because I did it after having gained my base of muscle. You live, you learn.[/quote]
I agree with everything else posted and most of this, but man getting “fatter” increases my strength lol.