To be honest I do not care much about my PR in bench press (I want to lift more in DL, squat and press, bench is not priority), but I do care about my back. Just want to build big, thick back. I think I can build my pecs in dips and incline db presses. What do you think about such swap in exercises?
I would never do this unless there was an injury preventing me from benching for some reason, and I probably wouldn’t do it then either. Rowing for max weights isn’t very effective in building back size due to form break-down as the weight gets heavier. Have you ever seen a guy with a huge back say anything about high-weight, low-rep rows? I haven’t. It’s always higher reps for back size unless you are talking about the deadlift, which you are already doing.
That’s fine that the bench is not a priority, so do it with a little less intensity and push the hell out of the lifts that you care about. You should be doing that anyhow because you cannot progress in all 4 lifts all the time. So, on day 1, push your squats hard, get some quality bench sets out of the way, and then, as assistance work, Pendlay-row like hell for the back size you want. Just make sure to keep the weight light enough that your back is actually moving the weight, not your arms or torso.
I think it’s an interesting idea. Wouldn’t hurt to try it. Form breakdown isn’t as much an issue with Pendlays as it is with regular barbell rows. It’s one of the key advantages to Pendlays.
[quote]DanProsser wrote:
I think it’s an interesting idea. Wouldn’t hurt to try it. Form breakdown isn’t as much an issue with Pendlays as it is with regular barbell rows. It’s one of the key advantages to Pendlays.[/quote]
I don’t follow. I consider Pendlays to be strict since there is no cheating with lower back movement and pulling the bar from a dead stop each rep takes any momentum cheat out of it.
[quote]DanProsser wrote:
I think it’s an interesting idea. Wouldn’t hurt to try it. Form breakdown isn’t as much an issue with Pendlays as it is with regular barbell rows. It’s one of the key advantages to Pendlays.[/quote]
I don’t follow. I consider Pendlays to be strict since there is no cheating with lower back movement and pulling the bar from a dead stop each rep takes any momentum cheat out of it.[/quote]
What I’m saying is that Pendlays are tailor made for heavy weights because of the points you mentioned. Unlike regular rows which get sloppy when people use too much weight.
Summarising, what do you Guys suggest. Give Pendlays a try? I was thinking about what Joey said - higher reps better in building back etc (honestly - my back got better when I included krocs on higher reps in training).
BUT I am considering doing Pendlays with piramid or FSL multiple series protocol - for more intensity. What do you think about that?
Or just make an experiment on “live organism” and try it for 2-3 cycles. And then I would know?
[quote]DanProsser wrote:
I think it’s an interesting idea. Wouldn’t hurt to try it. Form breakdown isn’t as much an issue with Pendlays as it is with regular barbell rows. It’s one of the key advantages to Pendlays.[/quote]
I don’t follow. I consider Pendlays to be strict since there is no cheating with lower back movement and pulling the bar from a dead stop each rep takes any momentum cheat out of it.[/quote]
What I’m saying is that Pendlays are tailor made for heavy weights because of the points you mentioned. Unlike regular rows which get sloppy when people use too much weight.[/quote]
You have never seen someone cheat the hell out of a Pendlay complete with hip extension, leg drive, and lower rounding?? Resembles Quasimodo doing a high pull. I actually see this more often than not. Is it still a Pendlay, no, but people call it that. Any type of row can be easily cheated, chest-supported rows maybe an exception to the “easily” part.
[quote]DanProsser wrote:
I think it’s an interesting idea. Wouldn’t hurt to try it. Form breakdown isn’t as much an issue with Pendlays as it is with regular barbell rows. It’s one of the key advantages to Pendlays.[/quote]
I don’t follow. I consider Pendlays to be strict since there is no cheating with lower back movement and pulling the bar from a dead stop each rep takes any momentum cheat out of it.[/quote]
What I’m saying is that Pendlays are tailor made for heavy weights because of the points you mentioned. Unlike regular rows which get sloppy when people use too much weight.[/quote]
You have never seen someone cheat the hell out of a Pendlay complete with hip extension, leg drive, and lower rounding?? Resembles Quasimodo doing a high pull. I actually see this more often than not. Is it still a Pendlay, no, but people call it that. Any type of row can be easily cheated, chest-supported rows maybe an exception to the “easily” part.
[/quote]
This is my ex training partner. This dude can’t get past the numbers (weight) and focus on the lift. His Pendlay rows have all the cheats you mention above with the added obnoxious bonus of bouncing the bb off the floor to assist with the rebound. Frankly, he drove me nuts to the point he would interfere with my concentration so had to stop working out with him.
[quote]DanProsser wrote:
I think it’s an interesting idea. Wouldn’t hurt to try it. Form breakdown isn’t as much an issue with Pendlays as it is with regular barbell rows. It’s one of the key advantages to Pendlays.[/quote]
I don’t follow. I consider Pendlays to be strict since there is no cheating with lower back movement and pulling the bar from a dead stop each rep takes any momentum cheat out of it.[/quote]
What I’m saying is that Pendlays are tailor made for heavy weights because of the points you mentioned. Unlike regular rows which get sloppy when people use too much weight.[/quote]
You have never seen someone cheat the hell out of a Pendlay complete with hip extension, leg drive, and lower rounding?? Resembles Quasimodo doing a high pull. I actually see this more often than not. Is it still a Pendlay, no, but people call it that. Any type of row can be easily cheated, chest-supported rows maybe an exception to the “easily” part.
[/quote]
This is my ex training partner. This dude can’t get past the numbers (weight) and focus on the lift. His Pendlay rows have all the cheats you mention above with the added obnoxious bonus of bouncing the bb off the floor to assist with the rebound. Frankly, he drove me nuts to the point he would interfere with my concentration so had to stop working out with him.
[/quote]
Yeah, I was that guy myself for a little while. Finally figured out that Explosive =/= Flailing
Corten, I just thought of this. Read the last question in that column. He gives advice on using 5/3/1 with other lifts including his own use of it with barbell rows.
Thanks a lot Dan for the article. I think I will give a try to my idea and incorporate Pendlays instead of bench for 2-3 cycles in training. It is nice, main, upper body bb lift, without any stabilisation exept body. Besides my personal rule - always have all 7 gold exercises in plan - is done. And - Who Dares - Wins!
The bench is a pretty good press assistance exercise.
You say you want to do rows.
The bench can be super-set with rows.
You can program both bench and rows on the 5/3/1 set/rep scheme simultaneously. There’s no law stating it needs to be one or the other.
Alternatively, you could superset bench using 5/3/1 and rows using SST or 5’s Progression.
Basically, I’m not sure why you would drop bench for rows when you could be doing (and progressing) both? It makes me think you must suck at bench and would rather ignore your weaknesses than train them.
[quote]corten wrote:
Thanks a lot Dan for the article. I think I will give a try to my idea and incorporate Pendlays instead of bench for 2-3 cycles in training. It is nice, main, upper body bb lift, without any stabilisation exept body. Besides my personal rule - always have all 7 gold exercises in plan - is done. And - Who Dares - Wins!
[/quote]
No problem man. Stick to your plan for a few cycles and check back in later to let us know how it went.
Thanks Guys for discussion. No, I am not stucked on weight, and no - I am not on crossfit. Just thinking too much about training I guess.
To be honest, 100% decision in not made yet.