OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

Training Bodybuilding
121

Experience. Id say you know more now than a few weeks ago. :wink:

If you got that 10th rep but it was all you had and was very slow, then back up a bit. Its a feel thing really. Dont overthink it.

DH

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
DH wrote:
Also, to anyone interested, I would like to clarify the idea of exertion per set. I believe one if far better off to use technical failure if one is training to “failure”. By that I mean that if your speed slows to look like creeping death or your form breaks down, then call if failure. This is in accord with Charles Poliquin’s working definition. Wanted to clear up any confusion so that folks aren’t squirming under load and/or taking forever to get that last rep. Physiologically, the cost to benefit ratio of getting that last gut busting rep is not in your favor. The frequency alone will ensure that you are getting max growth stimulus. I used to nearly kill myself at times and I’d like others to avoid my folly.

Me, doing it all over, I’d keep a rep in the whole each set. Keep good form and get good quality sleep. But who listens at 21? So Id just go grab “little DH” and impose my will on the boy until he obliged

Agh !!

I’ve been nearly blowing blood vessels in my head trying to get 1 more rep LOL !

How do you know when you only have 1 left, i start slowing down and then i’ll lower it and my body literally just gives in no matter how much i try to push it up it doesn’t budge :frowning:

Is the last set excluded as your done after it…

Thanks for all the info DH[/quote]

122

Thanx for the post DH. Yeah the 4x4 rounds sounded more doable to me…and I too calculated the number of reps…100 reps with an 8-10RM seemed a bit much!

123

You guys got me into it. I bought the e-book, and I’ll be starting on June 29th. I might start a log on here too. Never gave it much thought but it seems like it might be good motivation.

I plan on spending a little time setting up a nice looking Modok-inspired split.

124

Alright guys, I am dead set on this. I’ve been lurking for the most part the last little while, but I’m ready to get serious about my lifting. I haven’t ever asked someone to look over my stuff, but I want to make 100% sure I’m in compliance with the book, as well as what you guys are preaching. Here goes:

Day 1
T-Bar Row
Flat DB Press
Alt DB Curls
Smith Calf Raise

Day 2
DB Military Press
PJR Pullover
Machine Hack Squats
Seated Leg Curl
Reverse Crunch

Day 3
Pull ups
Incline BB Press
BB Curls
Seated Calf raise

Day 4
Upright Row ← saw that Modok used this as one of his, thought it might swing my way as well
Smith R-G Bench Press
Deadlift
Leg Press
Weighted Crunches

Day 5
DB Row
Decline BB Press
Hammer Curls
Leg Press Calf Raise

Day 6
Seated BB Military Press
C-G Bench Press
BB Back Squats
Lying Leg Curl
Hanging Pikes

I have a question too: Are rack pulls not considered a hammy exercise? I’d like a way to work them into my back rotation, but I believe C_C recommended earlier to do them on leg day and I know enough about my body to know that I’m susceptible to low-back burnout relatively quickly.

Thanks for any help/criticism men.

125

Burst what might be easier if you do the same excercises on
Day 1 and 5
Day 2 and 6

Then have different exercises on Day 3,4

I find that having the same exercises on my power day lets me really go heavy so I’m more prepared to go heavier then on the endurance day as i know i can lift heavier for 8-10 so another 5 reps might be attainable.

That’s how i work out my weights… if i get 10 on the power day, ill use that weight then for the next Endurance Day, Modok turned me onto it so i presume he has his reasons too.

Though it’s your program so have fun with it :slight_smile:

For the 1st week you might want to leave out the 2nd exercise for legs unless your used to high rep Squats and Deadlifts believe me they wipe every drop of energy out of you, but if your feeling fresh then have at it :stuck_out_tongue:

And finally to quote Modok on a PM he sent, which i hope he doesn’t mind me quoting:

Also i don’t know if Machine Hack Squats are considered a Level 7 exercise… it generally has to be freeweight though one of the longer guys might know… i do Back Squat on Day 2 and 6 and on Day 4 i do Sumo Deadlifts so i don’t rape my lower back.

126

Also to quote what i asked Cephalic too, his answer was :

127

[quote]Burst wrote:
I have a question too: Are rack pulls not considered a hammy exercise? I’d like a way to work them into my back rotation, but I believe C_C recommended earlier to do them on leg day and I know enough about my body to know that I’m susceptible to low-back burnout relatively quickly.

Thanks for any help/criticism men.[/quote]

You can do them in a way that hits the hams, but I’m not a fan of that, personally. You could combine them with leg presses if you wanted to… 45 degree leg presses (place feet a little higher on the pad and with a wider stance, you don’t want too much knee-strain in the bottom position) coupled with rack pulls (where the bar starts depends on your arm length… With shorter-medium arms, JUST above the knee should work great… Always keep bar in contact with body… Retract scapulae/shrug shoulders to the back after each lockout) work pretty well to bring my back squat up :wink:

The reason I suggest you do them on leg days is that if you do them on back days, coupled with the heavy low-back work from back squats and whatever else you’re doing on leg days, you’re really putting your low back health at risk and you’ll likely burn out too fast, anyway.

128

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Burst wrote:
I have a question too: Are rack pulls not considered a hammy exercise? I’d like a way to work them into my back rotation, but I believe C_C recommended earlier to do them on leg day and I know enough about my body to know that I’m susceptible to low-back burnout relatively quickly.

Thanks for any help/criticism men.

You can do them in a way that hits the hams, but I’m not a fan of that, personally. You could combine them with leg presses if you wanted to… 45 degree leg presses (place feet a little higher on the pad and with a wider stance, you don’t want too much knee-strain in the bottom position) coupled with rack pulls (where the bar starts depends on your arm length… With shorter-medium arms, JUST above the knee should work great… Always keep bar in contact with body… Retract scapulae/shrug shoulders to the back after each lockout) work pretty well to bring my back squat up :wink:

The reason I suggest you do them on leg days is that if you do them on back days, coupled with the heavy low-back work from back squats and whatever else you’re doing on leg days, you’re really putting your low back health at risk and you’ll likely burn out too fast, anyway.

[/quote]

I see your point, going from squats to rack pulls to something like a SLDL to squats again would leave me incapacitated. I appreciate your input CC, I’ll give what you mentioned some thought. I like the prospect of helping get my squat up higher even quicker.

129

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Burst what might be easier if you do the same excercises on
Day 1 and 5
Day 2 and 6

Then have different exercises on Day 3,4

I find that having the same exercises on my power day lets me really go heavy so I’m more prepared to go heavier then on the endurance day as i know i can lift heavier for 8-10 so another 5 reps might be attainable.

That’s how i work out my weights… if i get 10 on the power day, ill use that weight then for the next Endurance Day, Modok turned me onto it so i presume he has his reasons too.

Though it’s your program so have fun with it :slight_smile:

For the 1st week you might want to leave out the 2nd exercise for legs unless your used to high rep Squats and Deadlifts believe me they wipe every drop of energy out of you, but if your feeling fresh then have at it :stuck_out_tongue:

And finally to quote Modok on a PM he sent, which i hope he doesn’t mind me quoting:

On week 2 and 3, you are cutting your rest times way down, which will affect the weight you will be able to lift on sets 2-5 significantly. As long as you are progressing on the FIRST set, you are doing great, and that is what you should look at to see if you got stronger. Due to the decreasing rest, you will have to drop weight further on weeks 2 and 3 of the ramp than you did on week 1. If you miss a rep range, drop weight…and try to hit the rep range on the next set. You won’t be perfect all the time. In supergrowth, this will all be a moot point, as you get your rest back and your sets go back to 3. Week 3 ramp is really to tax your system, not set PRs. That is done in supergrowth. Just do your best to hit the rep ranges, and don’t worry about being perfect.

Also i don’t know if Machine Hack Squats are considered a Level 7 exercise… it generally has to be freeweight though one of the longer guys might know… i do Back Squat on Day 2 and 6 and on Day 4 i do Sumo Deadlifts so i don’t rape my lower back.
[/quote]

Interesting approach, Modok suggested to do it that way? I think I can see the benefits to it, I’m just curious since he had 3 for most of the exercises except for chest/quads.

Modok, would you mind interjecting and sharing your 2 cents?

130

Yeah. Just knock it down to 4 rounds per series (per “set”) and if you happen to get all your reps then you’d get about 64 reps with a quality load. Most of the time you start hitting some “3’s” and “2’s” on that last round of the last series or two. If you get something like this, which I usually did:

4,4,4,4
4,4,4,3
4,4,3,2
4,3,3,2

…then that’s 56 reps. Keep with that load and work to add reps until you get all “4’s”. then bump the load maybe 5% start again. Very similar to EDT and quite like powerlifting in teh cycling approach.

Best,
DH

[quote]JMAX wrote:
Thanx for the post DH. Yeah the 4x4 rounds sounded more doable to me…and I too calculated the number of reps…100 reps with an 8-10RM seemed a bit much![/quote]

131

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Burst wrote:
I have a question too: Are rack pulls not considered a hammy exercise? I’d like a way to work them into my back rotation, but I believe C_C recommended earlier to do them on leg day and I know enough about my body to know that I’m susceptible to low-back burnout relatively quickly.

Thanks for any help/criticism men.

You can do them in a way that hits the hams, but I’m not a fan of that, personally. You could combine them with leg presses if you wanted to… 45 degree leg presses (place feet a little higher on the pad and with a wider stance, you don’t want too much knee-strain in the bottom position) coupled with rack pulls (where the bar starts depends on your arm length… With shorter-medium arms, JUST above the knee should work great… Always keep bar in contact with body… Retract scapulae/shrug shoulders to the back after each lockout) work pretty well to bring my back squat up :wink:

The reason I suggest you do them on leg days is that if you do them on back days, coupled with the heavy low-back work from back squats and whatever else you’re doing on leg days, you’re really putting your low back health at risk and you’ll likely burn out too fast, anyway.

[/quote]

I was thinking - and whack me if I’m out of line - but what about a sumo deadlift like SmallToBig has implemented, or a hybrid type like Alpha uses?

Then pair this with a leg press on Wednesdays. That a better alternative?

132

Sumo Press was already ok’d :stuck_out_tongue:

Just do Squat Version/Leg Curls Day 2 and 6.
And then do Deadlift Version/Leg Press Day 4.

Works out fairly nice :slight_smile:

133

thanks for everything guys, I really do appreciate all the info/help yall have given us. What are yalls thoughts on this?

Day 1
Rows
Incline Bench
Straight Bar curls
Seated calf raise

Day 2
Seated shoulder press
CGBP
Front Squat
Hanging leg raises

Day 3
Flat Bench Press
Deadlift
Close grip EZ bar curls
Standing Calf raise

Day 4
DB Shoulder Press
Dips
Back Squats
Weighted sit-ups

Day 5
Chin-UPs
Decline BP
Seated calf raises
DB Hammer curls

Day 6
Standing Shoulder press
CGBP
Back Squat
Some other ab stuff

What are yalls thoughts on doing some extra trap work on back days?

134

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Sumo Press was already ok’d :stuck_out_tongue:

Just do Squat Version/Leg Curls Day 2 and 6.
And then do Deadlift Version/Leg Press Day 4.

Works out fairly nice :)[/quote]

Beautiful, thanks for the affirmation buddy.

135

[quote]tommytoughnuts wrote:
thanks for everything guys, I really do appreciate all the info/help yall have given us. What are yalls thoughts on this?

Day 1
Rows
Incline Bench
Straight Bar curls
Seated calf raise

Day 2
Seated shoulder press
CGBP
Front Squat
Hanging leg raises

Day 3
Flat Bench Press
Deadlift
Close grip EZ bar curls
Standing Calf raise

Day 4
DB Shoulder Press
Dips
Back Squats
Weighted sit-ups

Day 5
Chin-UPs
Decline BP
Seated calf raises
DB Hammer curls

Day 6
Standing Shoulder press
CGBP
Back Squat
Some other ab stuff

What are yalls thoughts on doing some extra trap work on back days? [/quote]

Deadlifts as your back exercise on Day 3 is probably not the best idea - you have front squats day 2, deadlifts day 3, back squats day 4 and 6. C_C recommended using deadlifts as a leg alternative for the hammys. I might move chin-ups to Day 3, then maybe a row on Day 5. There are higher authorities on the subject though.

The way I understand it, this program doesn’t really leave you with much in the tank after a workout. Or if it does, you probably aren’t putting everything you have into it. I’m assuming that extra trap work probably isn’t necessary if proper back exercises are chosen.

136

I’ thinking of buying the book and taking a stab at this when i get back from my vacation at the start of august. hmmmm i wonder if i have enough in my bank account.

137

[quote]Burst wrote:
tommytoughnuts wrote:
thanks for everything guys, I really do appreciate all the info/help yall have given us. What are yalls thoughts on this?

Day 1
Rows
Incline Bench
Straight Bar curls
Seated calf raise

Day 2
Seated shoulder press
CGBP
Front Squat
Hanging leg raises

Day 3
Flat Bench Press
Deadlift
Close grip EZ bar curls
Standing Calf raise

Day 4
DB Shoulder Press
Dips
Back Squats
Weighted sit-ups

Day 5
Chin-UPs
Decline BP
Seated calf raises
DB Hammer curls

Day 6
Standing Shoulder press
CGBP
Back Squat
Some other ab stuff

What are yalls thoughts on doing some extra trap work on back days?

Deadlifts as your back exercise on Day 3 is probably not the best idea - you have front squats day 2, deadlifts day 3, back squats day 4 and 6. C_C recommended using deadlifts as a leg alternative for the hammys. I might move chin-ups to Day 3, then maybe a row on Day 5. There are higher authorities on the subject though.

The way I understand it, this program doesn’t really leave you with much in the tank after a workout. Or if it does, you probably aren’t putting everything you have into it. I’m assuming that extra trap work probably isn’t necessary if proper back exercises are chosen.[/quote]

If you want to work the traps, you should use upright rows as one of your delt exercises. Should do the trick.

I threw out barbell deadlifts completely, but that’s to work around my recent lower back problems. I’m still doing DB Romanian deadlifts for the hams though.

138

[quote]Zackgsc wrote:
I’ thinking of buying the book and taking a stab at this when i get back from my vacation at the start of august. hmmmm i wonder if i have enough in my bank account.[/quote]

If you have a bank account, I’m sure you have $20 in it.

139

You know, people mentioned that the Anabolic Diet was introduced (basically) with this program. Would you all say that this program is more suited for that kind of eating rather than with “normal” eating?

If so, I may well get on the AD again if I can get my soon-to-be wife on board with that way of eating.

AD

140

[quote]Zackgsc wrote:
I’ thinking of buying the book and taking a stab at this when i get back from my vacation at the start of august. hmmmm i wonder if i have enough in my bank account.[/quote]

http://www.slideshare.net/guest5ff101/big-beyond-belief

There you go :stuck_out_tongue: