OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

Training Bodybuilding
101

Well its tough to be exact here without knowing more about you. If possible try to gut out the entire program for 18 weeks. Unless you are very advanced (and thus using extreme poundages) or just have bad recovery ability (and most people are better than they actually think. Hardgainers are not that common.) then you can make it through. The coasting weeks (hyperadaptation) will reduce volume and increase rest periods so that these should be a bit “easier” than the ramps.

This is all so individual but I do think that the vast majority can make a full 18 week cycle just fine because the program is designed to modify total training load and rest so that both are reduded for a few weeks after the ramps.

Best,
DH

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Recovery def. a big thing with this program. I have to stretch more though I know this.
I’ve been takin 25-30g’s of BCAA’s durin the workout…a very good post workout meal…and of course protein shakes…creatine, multivitamin, fish oil, 50mg zinc and 300mg mag before bedtime.
I seem to be recovering very good.
After 4th day of 8-10 reps…i was surprised i wasn’t sore AT ALL the next day. and man I pushed it hard.
But I have also upped my intake of food. I actually been feelin sick how much I been eating lately, I might have to back off cals a bit.

DH I was thinkin because I�¨m using failry heavy weights that after I do my ramp 3 weeks (in the 2nd week rigth now) and do my supergrowth phase for 3 weeks (might be longer though if I�¨m still makin gains)
I was thnkin of taking a week off then, on the 4th week…then ramping up What do you think.
Cause on supergrowth for the 5-7 reps day. Well if I do a heavy heavy lift for my first set and it�¨s almost a 5rep max, that�¨s eventually gonna burn me out. What do you think
Thanks![/quote]

102

Sounds good DH. Anyways where’d you come from DH…i’ve been on this site for a while…you’ve been here longer but never really saw you post?
Was also wondering what kidna results you got from this program, if you’ve tried it?

From this program I am lookin for size obvisouly…but more so concerned with the strength.
But Modok also told me to give the whole thing a run through, and then after that he just kept using ramp number 1 over n over again and teh supergrowth. But usin the same ramp over n over again.

103

Just asking, is anyone really even going by the prescribed rest times for this? I’ve never watched my rest times and I don’t really plan to, just wondering if anyone else feels the same way.

104

I used to post often in the AD thread and in many of Waterbury or Staleys articles.

Had a second baby, who we thought was going to have serious medical issues but ended up just fine. Thank you Jesus.

Anyway, I wasn’t online much for awhile but was pretty prolific before that. Funny that I seem to have been forgotten to some degree. :wink:

Big wheel keeps on turnin.

And yes, as Modok said, once you’ve gone through fully, you can pick your favorite ramp and do it repeatedly. Thats a good approach for sure.

Best,
DH

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Sounds good DH. Anyways where’d you come from DH…i’ve been on this site for a while…you’ve been here longer but never really saw you post?
Was also wondering what kidna results you got from this program, if you’ve tried it?

From this program I am lookin for size obvisouly…but more so concerned with the strength.
But Modok also told me to give the whole thing a run through, and then after that he just kept using ramp number 1 over n over again and teh supergrowth. But usin the same ramp over n over again.[/quote]

105

Hey DH,
you mentioned Titan Training as well. I just got titan training and wondering how it differs from BBB. Is it worth getting BBB or should I just try the titan training out?

106

[quote]MODOK wrote:
JMAX wrote:
Hey DH,
you mentioned Titan Training as well. I just got titan training and wondering how it differs from BBB. Is it worth getting BBB or should I just try the titan training out?

I’m interested in this too, DH- Spill the beans man.
I have the book, but have never done the program. Its interesting to say the least. Brings rest-pause in with a lot of volume.
[/quote]

Yeah I’ve read thru it but it doesn’t go into enuf detail when it comes to actual workouts. The guidelines are all there but there’s no talk of RM range for exercises (12-15 reps for example but are these to failure, with a ~20RM so you don’t go to failure or what). Also it speaks of progression with the pyramid adding weight to the base but doesn’t go into specifics of how to go about it…doesn’t have any suggestions for progression at all in fact.

Lastly, I’ve messed with rest-pause before, including DC training, but I can’t see taking an 8-10 rep max and doing 6 “rounds” of 4 with 10 second rest between rounds, and doing this 4 times with 1 minute between sets no less - ain’t gonna happen. I would probably make it thru the third round of the first set and be failing or close to it on the 4th…unless I’m a physiological freak.

107

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
Just asking, is anyone really even going by the prescribed rest times for this? I’ve never watched my rest times and I don’t really plan to, just wondering if anyone else feels the same way.[/quote]

Rest times are REALLY important, your forcing your body to do more work in the prescribed time, rest has to come down when they go adding more sets, plus its another form of overload not just more weight and sets.

Theres a HUGE difference between 120 and 90 seconds when your doing squats for 13-15 reps lol

108

[quote]DH wrote:
I used to post often in the AD thread and in many of Waterbury or Staleys articles.

Had a second baby, who we thought was going to have serious medical issues but ended up just fine. Thank you Jesus.

Anyway, I wasn’t online much for awhile but was pretty prolific before that. Funny that I seem to have been forgotten to some degree. :wink:

Big wheel keeps on turnin.

And yes, as Modok said, once you’ve gone through fully, you can pick your favorite ramp and do it repeatedly. Thats a good approach for sure.

Best,
DH

Forgotten? No chance. More like the E.F. Hutton of the forums.

I bought the book based on the endorsement of you and Modok. My question to either or both of you (or anyone else who has used it) is regarding the caloric surplus. Obviously when you guys used this system you were younger and the surplus would have been higher. What about someone late 30’s - early 40’s? 300…500…1000 caloric surplus? Also, if opting for the 4 day per week program, would you keep the cals the same on the off day or drop it down abit?

109

[quote]Undone wrote:

I bought the book based on the endorsement of you and Modok. My question to either or both of you (or anyone else who has used it) is regarding the caloric surplus. Obviously when you guys used this system you were younger and the surplus would have been higher. What about someone late 30’s - early 40’s? 300…500…1000 caloric surplus? Also, if opting for the 4 day per week program, would you keep the cals the same on the off day or drop it down abit?

[/quote]

I’m doing the 6 day and believe me you NEED to eat lol, your hungry all day im eating something every 2 hours and i still cant eat enough !

4 Day maybe a bit less but not by much, Week 2 and Week 3 will REALLY over reach you lol.

What another person PM’d me and I’ll have to run it past someone doing this longer, but they said to keep around maintenance for the 1st 3 weeks as your body won’t be adding much as it’s being pounded, and up the calories way high for the next 3 weeks as they are the “growth” weeks.

Though I’m on Day 4 of Week 2 of the 6 day program and I’m up 7 pounds so whether the above is right I’m not positive

110

Man rest periods are a bitch. Did the squats tonight, 365x15, 315x13…only 90 seconds rest. I NEVER do high rep squats, especially never with that low of rest period. Killed me man lol. Good for mental toughness though.
I’ll actually post the link of the first 2 squat sets.

111

315x13 2nd set. 90 sceonds rest.

112

I’m up a few lbs myself smalltobig…not 7lbs though aha…but 3lbs i am heavier. I’m sure in the 3rd week I will lose that weight because it’ll b quite hard. But growth phase should b fun.

113

LOL i know your pain, when you get to 9-10 and your looking at the floor going “the hell do i get another 3-5 !”

REALLY nice form and weight, really good job !

What week are you on ?

114

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Man rest periods are a bitch. Did the squats tonight, 365x15, 315x13…only 90 seconds rest. I NEVER do high rep squats, especially never with that low of rest period. Killed me man lol. Good for mental toughness though.
I’ll actually post the link of the first 2 squat sets. [/quote]

It looks like your hips begin to move before your upper body moves when coming out of the hole (i.e. you lean forward as you start the movement back to the starting position). Maybe it’s just the angle?

115

E.F. Hutton. ha ha ha. I love it, UD.

Well I started the Anabolic Diet at the same time I started BBB. Looking back, I was about 21 yrs old and had been eating low fat previously. Had this older guy (well he was about 30yo then) walking around all the time telling me I looked like Bruce Lee “cuz you’re ripped!”. Be that as it may, the AD had me take in more calories than I ever had before. So a surplus will be in order but there are many variables too.

Age, current bodyfat, and dietary type (macro levels) will all play into the final equation.

If you have a good handle on what intake keeps you where you are at then I’d start by adding 500cals per day when you begin on the 6 day cycle. If on the 4 day, then maybe only 300 or so. The 4 day is not going to be too different, total volume wise, when compared to what most guys are likely doing. Maybe 20 sets per session, give or take, and only 4 days per week.

Now as far as dropping cals on off days, I agree with Scott Abel. These off days serve as a chance to experience a small level of supercompensation on nutrients. Keep your cals the same and monitor yourself every 2 weeks or so to see if you like what the mirror is saying to you.

If you opt for the 6 day per week program, you will likely find your appetite increasing and your waistline shrinking. As long as you don’t overtrain, these 35-40 minute workouts are very effective at both anabolism and lipolysis.

Also, to anyone interested, I would like to clarify the idea of exertion per set. I believe one if far better off to use technical failure if one is training to “failure”. By that I mean that if your speed slows to look like creeping death or your form breaks down, then call if failure. This is in accord with Charles Poliquin’s working definition. Wanted to clear up any confusion so that folks aren’t squirming under load and/or taking forever to get that last rep. Physiologically, the cost to benefit ratio of getting that last gut busting rep is not in your favor. The frequency alone will ensure that you are getting max growth stimulus. I use to nearly kill myself at times and I’d like others to avoid my folly.

Me, doing it all over, I’d keep a rep in the hole each set. Keep good form and get good quality sleep. But who listens at 21? So Id just go grab “little DH” and impose my will on the boy until he obliged.

Best,
DH

[quote]Undone wrote:
DH wrote:
I used to post often in the AD thread and in many of Waterbury or Staleys articles.

Had a second baby, who we thought was going to have serious medical issues but ended up just fine. Thank you Jesus.

Anyway, I wasn’t online much for awhile but was pretty prolific before that. Funny that I seem to have been forgotten to some degree. :wink:

Big wheel keeps on turnin.

And yes, as Modok said, once you’ve gone through fully, you can pick your favorite ramp and do it repeatedly. Thats a good approach for sure.

Best,
DH

Forgotten? No chance. More like the E.F. Hutton of the forums.

I bought the book based on the endorsement of you and Modok. My question to either or both of you (or anyone else who has used it) is regarding the caloric surplus. Obviously when you guys used this system you were younger and the surplus would have been higher. What about someone late 30’s - early 40’s? 300…500…1000 caloric surplus? Also, if opting for the 4 day per week program, would you keep the cals the same on the off day or drop it down abit?

[/quote]

116

Rounds are fantastic and brutal. Now, I never used 6 rounds per set. I like 4 far better.

Take a 10rm load. Do 4 reps, rest 10s, 4 reps, 10s, 4 reps, 10s, 4 reps, rest 2 mins.

I’d do about 4 series like this. Giving me about 55-64 reps on a move.

You get more reps with a quality load and you don’t hit failure till the end. The best, smartest way to utilize the rest pause concept Ive ever used.

If you look in the template, Modok, you will see they have you put chest with lower body and do it on Thursday. Then hit shoulders, back, bi, and tri on Friday. No way I can handle that.

So I cycled accoring to focused specialization instead. Say you want to focus on big moves for overall body mass:

Do rounds on legs on thursday and do a few sets of arms (Id do a single series like above for biceps and then for triceps)

Then on Friday pick a compound back move and a compound pressing motion and do the rounds on only these two exercises.

Now as to comparing the two, thats tough. I like both really well. But it was SO long ago that I did BBB that an accurate comparison cannot be made.

But to me, trying to complete Titan as laid out would be murderous. Doing a full out 6 rounds in each series would get you about 80-100 reps per move. Doing 4 moves on Friday after hitting legs and chest on Thursday is only for those on AAS if you ask me. But the concept is excellent if you apply it in a downscaled version for the natural lifter.

Best,
DH

[quote]MODOK wrote:
JMAX wrote:
Hey DH,
you mentioned Titan Training as well. I just got titan training and wondering how it differs from BBB. Is it worth getting BBB or should I just try the titan training out?

I’m interested in this too, DH- Spill the beans man.
I have the book, but have never done the program. Its interesting to say the least. Brings rest-pause in with a lot of volume.
[/quote]

117

I despised the high rep days. I love the pump and hate the burn

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Man rest periods are a bitch. Did the squats tonight, 365x15, 315x13…only 90 seconds rest. I NEVER do high rep squats, especially never with that low of rest period. Killed me man lol. Good for mental toughness though.
I’ll actually post the link of the first 2 squat sets. [/quote]

118

[quote]DH wrote:
Also, to anyone interested, I would like to clarify the idea of exertion per set. I believe one if far better off to use technical failure if one is training to “failure”. By that I mean that if your speed slows to look like creeping death or your form breaks down, then call if failure. This is in accord with Charles Poliquin’s working definition. Wanted to clear up any confusion so that folks aren’t squirming under load and/or taking forever to get that last rep. Physiologically, the cost to benefit ratio of getting that last gut busting rep is not in your favor. The frequency alone will ensure that you are getting max growth stimulus. I used to nearly kill myself at times and I’d like others to avoid my folly.

Me, doing it all over, I’d keep a rep in the whole each set. Keep good form and get good quality sleep. But who listens at 21? So Id just go grab “little DH” and impose my will on the boy until he obliged
[/quote]

Agh !!

I’ve been nearly blowing blood vessels in my head trying to get 1 more rep LOL !

How do you know when you only have 1 left, i start slowing down and then i’ll lower it and my body literally just gives in no matter how much i try to push it up it doesn’t budge :frowning:

Is the last set excluded as your done after it…

Thanks for all the info DH

119

[quote]jo3 wrote:
rasturai wrote:
Man rest periods are a bitch. Did the squats tonight, 365x15, 315x13…only 90 seconds rest. I NEVER do high rep squats, especially never with that low of rest period. Killed me man lol. Good for mental toughness though.
I’ll actually post the link of the first 2 squat sets.

It looks like your hips begin to move before your upper body moves when coming out of the hole (i.e. you lean forward as you start the movement back to the starting position). Maybe it’s just the angle?[/quote]

Could just be because of fatigue? I’m not sure. I’ve always been told my squat form has been pretty good. Sometimes my knee’s go in a bit when I’m gettin tired but I just try to rmember to keep the knee’s out.
Other than that though, this form has been workin pretty good for me. And I haven’t had any injuries and I’ve been squatting like this for a while.

120

Yeah thanks for the info DH…I know on the bench I’ve been killin myself SOMETIMES on that last rep.
But I’m gonna stop that I’ll probably keep 1 rep in the hole on bench days…aside from that though everythin is smooth sailin.
Sleep is a definite must too, I never slept before and I have been lately and it definaetly makes a difference. Now I just stop whatever I’m doing at 10:30 and get in bed. Doesn’t matter what it is…can be done tomorrow.

Smalltobig…I’m in the 2nd week…so 4 sets of each exercise. Tomorrow I got 10-12 rep day 4 sets. Then the last day 8-10 reps.
Then finally into the 3rd week of the ramp. and then supergrowth…I’m pumped for the supergrowth lol.
Anyways time to eat!
Everyone should post their vids in here too if doin the program. See how we all advance in strength and such.