OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

Training Bodybuilding
561

[quote]MODOK wrote:
zraw wrote:
Some question regarding supplementation for BBB here guys

What do you think should be priorized if I had to make an order?

Surge Workout Fuel
Beta-Alanine
Alpha-GPC (would it even do any good on this program or be completely useless?..)

Of course leucine, bcaa, creatine are a staple here but im wondering about the other 3, especially alpha-gpc as im sure SWF and Beta-7 could be of some help

Your toughts?

Any other suggestions?

Well, assuming you’ve got the protein down, its really up to the size of your wallet. I don’t use any of those, but was about to give the SWF a trial run. I was thinking that SWF had beta alanine in it, but maybe not a “full dose”. I have used beta alanine in the past and it is very effective for high rep stuff, like the endurance days in the ramps. [/quote]

I had the same questionning about SWF wether it had enough beta alanine itself or if it wasnt really equivalent to a normal dose!

Any toughts on alpha-gpc ? Im wondering if it could be of any help or if it would be pretty useless as it seems to be more directed toward 1-3 reps stuff

562

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Going to do SHIPS tomorrow, however given my inability to sop a set before i nearly decapitate myself im slightly worried :D[/quote]

Did you correct your setup by now?

You should be able to rack the bar if you pretty much push yourself up in your seat with your legs when close to failure… Easier on the free-weight version, maybe.

563

[quote]zraw wrote:
Some question regarding supplementation for BBB here guys

What do you think should be priorized if I had to make an order?

Surge Workout Fuel
Beta-Alanine
Alpha-GPC (would it even do any good on this program or be completely useless?..)

Of course leucine, bcaa, creatine are a staple here but im wondering about the other 3, especially alpha-gpc as im sure SWF and Beta-7 could be of some help

Your toughts?

Any other suggestions?[/quote]

Jehovasfitness? Is that you? What did you do to zraw, you bastard!

:smiley:

564

[quote]zraw wrote:

On the first ramp you will only have 3 tights exercise (if you dont add any…) so you could either have 2 quads day and 1 ham day or the other way around depending on your weaknesses

If you do chose to add tights exercise, than it has been suggested that you use 1 high nma exercise and 1 very low nma exercise (squat+legcurl), (romanian deadlift + leg extension), etc.

Altough, like I previously said, I do not think there is a need to add anything to ramp 1, or 2 or 3 for that matter. While its true you dont work your legs a lot on ramp 1 (if you dont change anything) ramp 2 and 3 will more than compensate for the lack of leg work on the 1st ramp (6days of tights on ramp 2 and 5days of tights on ramp3)

[/quote]

Yeah Im going to choose just 1 thigh movement per session and not split them up. Since my work schedule is changing soon, im going to start “prepping” by doing to routine, but not to failure for a week. I need to get my body ready for training at 6am instead of 6pm.

Day 1: DB Bench, BO row, BB curl, calfs.
Day 2: Squat, DB raises (side & rear), CGBP, abs.
Day 3: low incline DB bench, nuetral chins, Inc DB curl, calfs
Day 4: trap bar Deadlift, seated db press, dips, abs
Day 5: db decline Bench, db row, BB curl, calfs
Day 6: front Squat, DB raises (side & rear), rev grip bench

I chose to hit shoulders with side & rear raises twice a week, and only overhead press once to prevent any shoulder injurys. Plus all the db benching should stimulate the front head enough.

Any other suggestions? Maybe swap in regular deads instead of trap bar for a bit more hammy work?

565

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
zraw wrote:
Some question regarding supplementation for BBB here guys

What do you think should be priorized if I had to make an order?

Surge Workout Fuel
Beta-Alanine
Alpha-GPC (would it even do any good on this program or be completely useless?..)

Of course leucine, bcaa, creatine are a staple here but im wondering about the other 3, especially alpha-gpc as im sure SWF and Beta-7 could be of some help

Your toughts?

Any other suggestions?

Jehovasfitness? Is that you? What did you do to zraw, you bastard!

:D[/quote]

LOLLLLLLLLLL ! Im just jealous, you got a LEVEL 4 while im still a weakling with a LEVEL 0 !!!

Truth be told I have already used beta-alanine in powder form but the cost is higher than the Biotest one.

As far as Surge Workout Fuel goes, seeing all the reviews im willing to give it a try

The only thing im not sure about is Alpha-GPC.

(I dont know how can ppl rely on Surge Recovery so much… to me it looks like the cost is soooo high)

ALSO :

Since when I will be starting BBB I will just have ended my cut and will be fairly lean (probably around 5%) and my calories intake will be fairly lower than normal (around 2000-2200, im trying to do a kind of “contest prep practice lol…”) how should I approach my diet afterward?

Normally I would just up my intake gradually by 250-500/week but if I were to do that, I’d still be at deficit after 2weeks and at maintenance after 3weeks (Sitting at around 3000 for week 2 and 3500 for week 3… while to grow, I know I need around 4000 to reach 200 and around 4300 to reach 210)

SO, TO RESUME, THE QUESTION IS : Should I up my intake faster or have a period of 2weeks under maintenace but still getting benefits as my body will still get more than what he has been used to for the past weeks?

(I plan on doing the “get shredded” by Thibaudeau with water manipulation and stuff in 4weeks (goal date is august 16th) and than take a full week off before BBB

566

Days 1 and two of the third week of the ramp made me pray for death a little. When i was jump setting, after 3 x 13-15 max reps in the front squat, then 3 x 13-15 max reps in the OH press, It was time jump back to front squats for 2x 13-15 max, I felt likee I might puke and die while passing out under the bar. Needless to say I love this program! Just thought I would check in. I am up about six pounds and following the Anabolic diet to the letter. (except my weekends are not on the weekends due to my crazy schedule). The loss in strength as the workout progresses is humbling.

567

[quote]MODOK wrote:
zraw wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
zraw wrote:
Some question regarding supplementation for BBB here guys

What do you think should be priorized if I had to make an order?

Surge Workout Fuel
Beta-Alanine
Alpha-GPC (would it even do any good on this program or be completely useless?..)

Of course leucine, bcaa, creatine are a staple here but im wondering about the other 3, especially alpha-gpc as im sure SWF and Beta-7 could be of some help

Your toughts?

Any other suggestions?

Jehovasfitness? Is that you? What did you do to zraw, you bastard!

:smiley:

LOLLLLLLLLLL ! Im just jealous, you got a LEVEL 4 while im still a weakling with a LEVEL 0 !!!

Truth be told I have already used beta-alanine in powder form but the cost is higher than the Biotest one.

As far as Surge Workout Fuel goes, seeing all the reviews im willing to give it a try

The only thing im not sure about is Alpha-GPC.

(I dont know how can ppl rely on Surge Recovery so much… to me it looks like the cost is soooo high)

ALSO :

Since when I will be starting BBB I will just have ended my cut and will be fairly lean (probably around 5%) and my calories intake will be fairly lower than normal (around 2000-2200, im trying to do a kind of “contest prep practice lol…”) how should I approach my diet afterward?

Normally I would just up my intake gradually by 250-500/week but if I were to do that, I’d still be at deficit after 2weeks and at maintenance after 3weeks (Sitting at around 3000 for week 2 and 3500 for week 3… while to grow, I know I need around 4000 to reach 200 and around 4300 to reach 210)

SO, TO RESUME, THE QUESTION IS : Should I up my intake faster or have a period of 2weeks under maintenace but still getting benefits as my body will still get more than what he has been used to for the past weeks?

(I plan on doing the “get shredded” by Thibaudeau with water manipulation and stuff in 4weeks (goal date is august 16th) and than take a full week off before BBB

I would bring it back up to maintenance or slightly above slowly, as you described, before going on BBB. You could get it up to nearly where you want it, start the “pre conditioning” workout in BBB for 3 weeks or so, and then jump in when you are in a calorie surplus. Don’t rush the cals back in… you’ll be a fat ass in no time.[/quote]

Oh right I had completely forgotten about the pre conditionning workout ! Thanks for the reminder thats surely what I’ll do. Slow increasy for 4 weeks (1 week off + 3 weeks on pre cond program) should put me a bit higher than at maintenance

Thank you Modok

568

[quote]DH wrote:
Marc! good to “see” you buddy. Hows it going?

IamMarqaos wrote:
How on earth did I miss this thread?

I made great gains on the Bulgarian Power Burst Program and thus ended up buying the BBB program on which I made great gains also.
I ended up buying the e-book because I have had the paper copy for so long it fell apart :slight_smile:

Great contribution MODOK,

Marc

[/quote]

Hey my friend,

How are you?

I am doing good actually. Had my last chemo session last Monday and am aching to go back to the gym after close to 7 months of barely setting foot in there. Oncologist will probably give all clear this Monday (for training, I mean) and I am going to focus on fat loss and conditioning first and after I see how that goes it is back to adding my lost mass.

Most likely I will do a 4 day BBB like program or QD depending on how things go.

It has been a while since I have seen posts by you. Glad to see you contributing to this thread. Between you and MODOK people will grow!

Best,

Marc

569

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

Most likely I will do a 4 day BBB like program or QD depending on how things go.

[/quote]

What is QD?

570

[quote]MODOK wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
IamMarqaos wrote:

Most likely I will do a 4 day BBB like program or QD depending on how things go.

What is QD?

Thats medical terminoligy for “daily”. :)[/quote]

Ha-ha :slight_smile:

It’s one of Waterbury’s programs (to answer the poster before you). Quattro Dynamo (QD). DH knows everything Waterbury so I used the abbreviation. It’s a good program to transition to after a fat loss and conditioning stage, if needed. I react very well to a higher frequency. BBB fits that bill really well but I need to make sure I can handle it.

MODOK, are you also familiar with the Titan Training manual?

Marc

571

Mark congrats on coming through chemo.

Hope it’s gone forever now :slight_smile:

572

I’m about to start Ramp 2 tomorrow, and I just noticed that I’ll be working out my back, chest, and thighs every day. I think DH mentioned something about this, but would it be better for me to switch out compound movements with isolated movements so I don’t kill my CNS?

Also, I may be traveling at the end of week 3 for a business conference (Thursday-Sunday). I’d be able to do Thursday’s workout in the morning and could move Saturday’s workout to Sunday afternoon (when I come back home). To make up for Friday’s workout, should I:

  1. Skip one of my Sunday rest days so I’ll be ahead of schedule when I leave for the trip, or
  2. Hope that the gym at my hotel has decent equipment and that I have time to get a workout in?

If I did option #1, my workout schedule for the next 3 weeks would look like:
-Week 1: July 20-25
-Week 2: July 27-Aug 1
-Week 3: Aug 2-6, 9

I guess 11 straight days of workouts wouldn’t be too bad since the whole point is to get as close to acute overtraining as possible (without actually getting there).

573

One other question: since thighs are being worked every day, should I just stick to 1 thigh exercise per day rather than doing 1 for quads and another for hams?

574

Sorry for the triple post, but here’s my proposed exercise selection for ramp 2. Let me know what you guys think. I’ve included comments/hesitations about some of the exercises.

Monday - 3 x 13-15
Back (width) - HS lat pulldown (supinated grip)
Chest - BB incline press - [quote](maybe use DBs instead since I’ll be using a BB on Friday?)[/quote]
Thighs (hamstrings) - swiss ball leg curls (moving to glute-ham raises when ready)
Calves - seated calf raises
Biceps - DB hammer curls

Tuesday - 3 x 13-15
Chest - machine pec flies
Back (thickness) - one-arm DB rows (aka Kroc rows)
Thighs (quads) - angled leg press
Calves - angled leg press (calves)
Triceps - weighted/machine dips - [quote](I need to buy a dip belt… I like weighted dips much better than the machine dips, but keeping the DBs between my legs is becoming a problem, especially when I’m doing the dips upright to emphasize my triceps)[/quote]

Wednesday - 3 x 10-12
Back (width) - wide-grip rack chins - [quote](not sure how easy this will be to set up… I’ve never done them before)[/quote]
Chest - DB decline press (neutral grip)
Biceps - DB alt. standing curls
Calves - seated calf raises
Thighs (hamstrings) - straight-legged deadlift - [quote](will probably have to use straps, since the rack chins and curls will probably kill my grip strength)[/quote]

Thursday - 3 x 10-12
Chest - Cable crossover
Back (thickness) - bent-over BB rows
Triceps - wide reverse-grip smith press/elbows-out DB extension - [quote](considering the elbows-out DB extensions because I’m doing a lot of pressing… maybe it’s not a big deal since I’m not doing any direct shoulder work in these 3 weeks?)[/quote]
Thighs (quads) - front squat/hack squat - [quote](would prefer to do front squats, but my arms are a huge limiting factor because I have problems keeping them up)[/quote]
Calves - angled leg press (calves)

Friday - 3 x 8-10
Back (width) - wide-grip lat pulldowns
Chest - BB incline press
Calves - seated calf raises
Thighs (hamstrings) - lying leg curls
Biceps - EZ bar curl

Saturday - 3 x 8-10
Chest - DB flies
Back (thickness) - corner rows
Thighs (quads) - back squat
Triceps - close-grip press
Calves - angled leg press (calves)

General notes:
Setting this ramp up has been much more difficult/confusing than setting up ramp 1. As you can tell, my general set up is:

M/W/F:
-compound chest exercise
-back width exercise
-hamstring exercise

Tu/Th/Sa:
-isolation chest exercise
-back thickness exercise
-quad exercise

I separated back thickness and hamstrings to avoid taxing my lower back. I also separated compound chest exercises and triceps so I can lift heavy on my triceps exercises.

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I won’t do my first workout until tomorrow afternoon, so we still have a good 24 hours of tweaking.

575

[quote]jo3 wrote:

General notes:
Setting this ramp up has been much more difficult/confusing than setting up ramp 1. As you can tell, my general set up is:

M/W/F:
-compound chest exercise
-back width exercise
-hamstring exercise

Tu/Th/Sa:
-isolation chest exercise
-back thickness exercise
-quad exercise

I separated back thickness and hamstrings to avoid taxing my lower back. I also separated compound chest exercises and triceps so I can lift heavy on my triceps exercises.

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I won’t do my first workout until tomorrow afternoon, so we still have a good 24 hours of tweaking.[/quote]

Two questions:

  1. Is the idea of alternating compound/iso movements written in the program or did it come from one our vets?
  2. What kind of gains did you see from supergrowth, I am about to start that soon.
576

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
Two questions:

  1. Is the idea of alternating compound/iso movements written in the program or did it come from one our vets?
  2. What kind of gains did you see from supergrowth, I am about to start that soon.[/quote]

Two answers:

  1. If I remember correctly, it was DH who suggested this so that the CNS isn’t overtaxed. I’ve never done it before, but I’m sure doing 3-4 sets of compound movements for chest for 6 days straight would kill me quickly. I suppose I could always give it a shot. I’m young, so I should recover pretty quickly.

  2. I grew all around. I don’t recall my exact numbers, but I’m up around 12 lbs and have grown anywhere from 0.5-2 inches around my body (including my waist and neck, unfortunately). I’ve posted an image of the spreadsheet I’m using to track my measurements, and you can find that in my training log. I took pictures yesterday, but my friend took my firewire cord meaning I’ll have to borrow one from a friend to upload my pics onto my computer.

In terms of feel/the mirror, I’ve noticed the most growth in my legs and shoulders. Some of my jeans I bought last year still fit fine around the waist, but they cut off the circulation in my legs! My shoulders appear to be broader, and my traps look slightly bigger. This sounds ridiculous, but I don’t know if my pics will do me justice since I’m taking them from around waist height looking up. Maybe I have gym goggles on :wink:

In terms of strength, my new maxes are (estimates… I’m at work and don’t have access to my spreadsheet):
-incline bench: 175x3 (no previous benchmark)
-standing BB press: 140x5 (from 120x5 two months ago)
-close-grip flat bench: 180x6 (from 175x5 on normal-grip flat bench two months ago)
-back squat: 295x7 (from 260x5 two months ago)

I’m still lifting baby weight, but I still have a few years to hit my 300/400/500 goals :slight_smile:

577

Jo3:
Well I am sure with those kinds of strength increases you have added a good deal of new muscle. Thighs not fitting into pants that still fit your waist means IMO that you are starting to take on the shape of bodybuilder which sperates us from fitness geeks. 12 pounds is also a good weight gain. I would be proud if I were you. good luck on your second ramp!

578

[quote]jo3 wrote:

In terms of strength, my new maxes are (estimates… I’m at work and don’t have access to my spreadsheet):
-incline bench: 175x3 (no previous benchmark)
-standing BB press: 140x5 (from 120x5 two months ago)
-close-grip flat bench: 180x6 (from 175x5 on normal-grip flat bench two months ago)
-back squat: 295x7 (from 260x5 two months ago)

I’m still lifting baby weight, but I still have a few years to hit my 300/400/500 goals :)[/quote]

Nice job my man !

You will get the 300/400/500 by end of program !

Best if luck on Ramp 2, ill be watching as i start it next week.

Just wait and see if we can do all compounds, sounds a bit harsh :stuck_out_tongue:

579

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
jo3 wrote:

In terms of strength, my new maxes are (estimates… I’m at work and don’t have access to my spreadsheet):
-incline bench: 175x3 (no previous benchmark)
-standing BB press: 140x5 (from 120x5 two months ago)
-close-grip flat bench: 180x6 (from 175x5 on normal-grip flat bench two months ago)
-back squat: 295x7 (from 260x5 two months ago)

I’m still lifting baby weight, but I still have a few years to hit my 300/400/500 goals :slight_smile:

Nice job my man !

You will get the 300/400/500 by end of program !

Best if luck on Ramp 2, ill be watching as i start it next week.

Just wait and see if we can do all compounds, sounds a bit harsh :p[/quote]

Haha, I think 300/400/500 in 12 weeks is a bit too optimistic. However, I’d be ecstatic if I could hit 225/345/405, and I think that’s much more realistic.

I’m thinking about doing all compounds. I’m only 22, so with enough food, rest, and Surge Recovery, I think I should recover fairly quickly. But we’ll see (don’t have to make that decision until tomorrow).

580

[quote]MODOK wrote:
jo3 wrote:
Sorry for the triple post, but here’s my proposed exercise selection for ramp 2. Let me know what you guys think. I’ve included comments/hesitations about some of the exercises.

Monday - 3 x 13-15
Back (width) - HS lat pulldown (supinated grip)
Chest - BB incline press - (maybe use DBs instead since I’ll be using a BB on Friday?)
Thighs (hamstrings) - swiss ball leg curls (moving to glute-ham raises when ready)
Calves - seated calf raises
Biceps - DB hammer curls

Tuesday - 3 x 13-15
Chest - machine pec flies
Back (thickness) - one-arm DB rows (aka Kroc rows)
Thighs (quads) - angled leg press
Calves - angled leg press (calves)
Triceps - weighted/machine dips - (I need to buy a dip belt… I like weighted dips much better than the machine dips, but keeping the DBs between my legs is becoming a problem, especially when I’m doing the dips upright to emphasize my triceps)

Wednesday - 3 x 10-12
Back (width) - wide-grip rack chins - (not sure how easy this will be to set up… I’ve never done them before)
Chest - DB decline press (neutral grip)
Biceps - DB alt. standing curls
Calves - seated calf raises
Thighs (hamstrings) - straight-legged deadlift - (will probably have to use straps, since the rack chins and curls will probably kill my grip strength)

Thursday - 3 x 10-12
Chest - Cable crossover
Back (thickness) - bent-over BB rows
Triceps - wide reverse-grip smith press/elbows-out DB extension - (considering the elbows-out DB extensions because I’m doing a lot of pressing… maybe it’s not a big deal since I’m not doing any direct shoulder work in these 3 weeks?)
Thighs (quads) - front squat/hack squat - (would prefer to do front squats, but my arms are a huge limiting factor because I have problems keeping them up)
Calves - angled leg press (calves)

Friday - 3 x 8-10
Back (width) - wide-grip lat pulldowns
Chest - BB incline press
Calves - seated calf raises
Thighs (hamstrings) - lying leg curls
Biceps - EZ bar curl

Saturday - 3 x 8-10
Chest - DB flies
Back (thickness) - corner rows
Thighs (quads) - back squat
Triceps - close-grip press
Calves - angled leg press (calves)

General notes:
Setting this ramp up has been much more difficult/confusing than setting up ramp 1. As you can tell, my general set up is:

M/W/F:
-compound chest exercise
-back width exercise
-hamstring exercise

Tu/Th/Sa:
-isolation chest exercise
-back thickness exercise
-quad exercise

I separated back thickness and hamstrings to avoid taxing my lower back. I also separated compound chest exercises and triceps so I can lift heavy on my triceps exercises.

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I won’t do my first workout until tomorrow afternoon, so we still have a good 24 hours of tweaking.

This all looks good as well. Get ready to eat! This is a demanding ramp.[/quote]

Thanks a lot MODOK. You (along with C_C and DH) have played an instrumental role in motivating a lot of young guys here. I guess that’s what the veterans are supposed to do :slight_smile: