OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

Training Bodybuilding
581

[quote]jo3 wrote:
MODOK wrote:
jo3 wrote:
Sorry for the triple post, but here’s my proposed exercise selection for ramp 2. Let me know what you guys think. I’ve included comments/hesitations about some of the exercises.

Monday - 3 x 13-15
Back (width) - HS lat pulldown (supinated grip)
Chest - BB incline press - (maybe use DBs instead since I’ll be using a BB on Friday?)
Thighs (hamstrings) - swiss ball leg curls (moving to glute-ham raises when ready)
Calves - seated calf raises
Biceps - DB hammer curls

Tuesday - 3 x 13-15
Chest - machine pec flies
Back (thickness) - one-arm DB rows (aka Kroc rows)
Thighs (quads) - angled leg press
Calves - angled leg press (calves)
Triceps - weighted/machine dips - (I need to buy a dip belt… I like weighted dips much better than the machine dips, but keeping the DBs between my legs is becoming a problem, especially when I’m doing the dips upright to emphasize my triceps)

Wednesday - 3 x 10-12
Back (width) - wide-grip rack chins - (not sure how easy this will be to set up… I’ve never done them before)
Chest - DB decline press (neutral grip)
Biceps - DB alt. standing curls
Calves - seated calf raises
Thighs (hamstrings) - straight-legged deadlift - (will probably have to use straps, since the rack chins and curls will probably kill my grip strength)

Thursday - 3 x 10-12
Chest - Cable crossover
Back (thickness) - bent-over BB rows
Triceps - wide reverse-grip smith press/elbows-out DB extension - (considering the elbows-out DB extensions because I’m doing a lot of pressing… maybe it’s not a big deal since I’m not doing any direct shoulder work in these 3 weeks?)
Thighs (quads) - front squat/hack squat - (would prefer to do front squats, but my arms are a huge limiting factor because I have problems keeping them up)
Calves - angled leg press (calves)

Friday - 3 x 8-10
Back (width) - wide-grip lat pulldowns
Chest - BB incline press
Calves - seated calf raises
Thighs (hamstrings) - lying leg curls
Biceps - EZ bar curl

Saturday - 3 x 8-10
Chest - DB flies
Back (thickness) - corner rows
Thighs (quads) - back squat
Triceps - close-grip press
Calves - angled leg press (calves)

General notes:
Setting this ramp up has been much more difficult/confusing than setting up ramp 1. As you can tell, my general set up is:

M/W/F:
-compound chest exercise
-back width exercise
-hamstring exercise

Tu/Th/Sa:
-isolation chest exercise
-back thickness exercise
-quad exercise

I separated back thickness and hamstrings to avoid taxing my lower back. I also separated compound chest exercises and triceps so I can lift heavy on my triceps exercises.

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I won’t do my first workout until tomorrow afternoon, so we still have a good 24 hours of tweaking.

This all looks good as well. Get ready to eat! This is a demanding ramp.

Thanks a lot MODOK. You (along with C_C and DH) have played an instrumental role in motivating a lot of young guys here. I guess that’s what the veterans are supposed to do :)[/quote]

Just an idea thrown like that but if you dont feel like doing the same 3 exercises for chest (flat bench, db decline and incline bench) you could possibly do those same (or almost) movements on the smyth…

Day 1 : Flat bb bench
Day 2 : Incline smyth bench
Day 3 : Decline db press
Day 4 : Flat smyth bench
Day 5 : Incline barbell
Day 6 : Decline smyth bench

Movement would be a bit less taxing but still help you more in the way of those “big lifts”

Wait for DH, C_C, or MODOK opinion as im not 100% sure about my reasoning

(I personally plan on doing compounds and rotating 3 exercises for the whole 3 weeks)

Another idea, instead of doing your 3 compound exercises the same way for the 6 days of the week, would be to do your chest exercise with partial reps 1 day out of 2 (taking away the triceps from the movement)

582

[quote]zraw wrote:
jo3 wrote:
MODOK wrote:
jo3 wrote:
Sorry for the triple post, but here’s my proposed exercise selection for ramp 2. Let me know what you guys think. I’ve included comments/hesitations about some of the exercises.

Monday - 3 x 13-15
Back (width) - HS lat pulldown (supinated grip)
Chest - BB incline press - (maybe use DBs instead since I’ll be using a BB on Friday?)
Thighs (hamstrings) - swiss ball leg curls (moving to glute-ham raises when ready)
Calves - seated calf raises
Biceps - DB hammer curls

Tuesday - 3 x 13-15
Chest - machine pec flies
Back (thickness) - one-arm DB rows (aka Kroc rows)
Thighs (quads) - angled leg press
Calves - angled leg press (calves)
Triceps - weighted/machine dips - (I need to buy a dip belt… I like weighted dips much better than the machine dips, but keeping the DBs between my legs is becoming a problem, especially when I’m doing the dips upright to emphasize my triceps)

Wednesday - 3 x 10-12
Back (width) - wide-grip rack chins - (not sure how easy this will be to set up… I’ve never done them before)
Chest - DB decline press (neutral grip)
Biceps - DB alt. standing curls
Calves - seated calf raises
Thighs (hamstrings) - straight-legged deadlift - (will probably have to use straps, since the rack chins and curls will probably kill my grip strength)

Thursday - 3 x 10-12
Chest - Cable crossover
Back (thickness) - bent-over BB rows
Triceps - wide reverse-grip smith press/elbows-out DB extension - (considering the elbows-out DB extensions because I’m doing a lot of pressing… maybe it’s not a big deal since I’m not doing any direct shoulder work in these 3 weeks?)
Thighs (quads) - front squat/hack squat - (would prefer to do front squats, but my arms are a huge limiting factor because I have problems keeping them up)
Calves - angled leg press (calves)

Friday - 3 x 8-10
Back (width) - wide-grip lat pulldowns
Chest - BB incline press
Calves - seated calf raises
Thighs (hamstrings) - lying leg curls
Biceps - EZ bar curl

Saturday - 3 x 8-10
Chest - DB flies
Back (thickness) - corner rows
Thighs (quads) - back squat
Triceps - close-grip press
Calves - angled leg press (calves)

General notes:
Setting this ramp up has been much more difficult/confusing than setting up ramp 1. As you can tell, my general set up is:

M/W/F:
-compound chest exercise
-back width exercise
-hamstring exercise

Tu/Th/Sa:
-isolation chest exercise
-back thickness exercise
-quad exercise

I separated back thickness and hamstrings to avoid taxing my lower back. I also separated compound chest exercises and triceps so I can lift heavy on my triceps exercises.

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I won’t do my first workout until tomorrow afternoon, so we still have a good 24 hours of tweaking.

This all looks good as well. Get ready to eat! This is a demanding ramp.

Thanks a lot MODOK. You (along with C_C and DH) have played an instrumental role in motivating a lot of young guys here. I guess that’s what the veterans are supposed to do :slight_smile:

Just an idea thrown like that but if you dont feel like doing the same 3 exercises for chest (flat bench, db decline and incline bench) you could possibly do those same (or almost) movements on the smyth…

Day 1 : Flat bb bench
Day 2 : Incline smyth bench
Day 3 : Decline db press
Day 4 : Flat smyth bench
Day 5 : Incline barbell
Day 6 : Decline smyth bench

Movement would be a bit less taxing but still help you more in the way of those “big lifts”

Wait for DH, C_C, or MODOK opinion as im not 100% sure about my reasoning

(I personally plan on doing compounds and rotating 3 exercises for the whole 3 weeks)

Another idea, instead of doing your 3 compound exercises the same way for the 6 days of the week, would be to do your chest exercise with partial reps 1 day out of 2 (taking away the triceps from the movement)

[/quote]

Problem I’m seeing with this: You’re hitting your shoulders with heavy pressing from the same angle 6 days a week, after having just come of 6 weeks of also hitting them heavy every day…

I dunno… I’d consider becoming friends with the pec deck or cable station for a while.

583

(by the same angle I mean from the front)

584

Hmm. Modok and DH, have you ever experimented with creating your own ramps+training phases?

I’m thinking of a phase where you’d basically do back 6 days a week (width and thickness alternated) but only hit the shoulder joint three times from the front or with vastly reduced volume or so.

Simply to give the shoulders and elbows and tendons a rest from all the pressing.

For example:

Ramp 4 week 1

Day 1 - chest (1 set), delts (1 set), tris (1 set), backt(3 sets)
Day 2 - backwidth, thighs, bis, abs/calves or whatever.

Or alternatively:

Day 1 - Chest (1 set), backthickness (3 sets), biceps (3 sets)
Day 2 - Delts (1 set), Tris (1 set or multiple if you’re not using a press here), backwidth(3 sets), thighs (3 sets)

Just throwing that out for discussion, haven’t put much thought into it yet.

585

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
zraw wrote:
Just an idea thrown like that but if you dont feel like doing the same 3 exercises for chest (flat bench, db decline and incline bench) you could possibly do those same (or almost) movements on the smyth…

Day 1 : Flat bb bench
Day 2 : Incline smyth bench
Day 3 : Decline db press
Day 4 : Flat smyth bench
Day 5 : Incline barbell
Day 6 : Decline smyth bench

Movement would be a bit less taxing but still help you more in the way of those “big lifts”

Wait for DH, C_C, or MODOK opinion as im not 100% sure about my reasoning

(I personally plan on doing compounds and rotating 3 exercises for the whole 3 weeks)

Another idea, instead of doing your 3 compound exercises the same way for the 6 days of the week, would be to do your chest exercise with partial reps 1 day out of 2 (taking away the triceps from the movement)

Problem I’m seeing with this: You’re hitting your shoulders with heavy pressing from the same angle 6 days a week, after having just come of 6 weeks of also hitting them heavy every day…

I dunno… I’d consider becoming friends with the pec deck or cable station for a while.

[/quote]

This is why I’m choosing to alternate between compound and iso movements. Even with this set up, I’m still putting a lot of force on my shoulders every day:
-Monday (DB/BB incline press)
-Tuesday (weighted dips)
-Wednesday (DB decline press)
-Thursday (wide reverse-grip smith press)
-Friday (BB incline press)
-Saturday (close-grip press on flat bench)

But now that I think about it, the chest exercises on Tu/Th/Sa are simply replacing the shoulder exercises from ramp 1, so in theory it would be the same amount of frequency for the shoulders.

Regardless, I think I’ll stick with my current set up. My right shoulder started to give me problems around week 5, so I’m not taking any chances.

586

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
zraw wrote:
jo3 wrote:
MODOK wrote:
jo3 wrote:
Sorry for the triple post, but here’s my proposed exercise selection for ramp 2. Let me know what you guys think. I’ve included comments/hesitations about some of the exercises.

Monday - 3 x 13-15
Back (width) - HS lat pulldown (supinated grip)
Chest - BB incline press - (maybe use DBs instead since I’ll be using a BB on Friday?)
Thighs (hamstrings) - swiss ball leg curls (moving to glute-ham raises when ready)
Calves - seated calf raises
Biceps - DB hammer curls

Tuesday - 3 x 13-15
Chest - machine pec flies
Back (thickness) - one-arm DB rows (aka Kroc rows)
Thighs (quads) - angled leg press
Calves - angled leg press (calves)
Triceps - weighted/machine dips - (I need to buy a dip belt… I like weighted dips much better than the machine dips, but keeping the DBs between my legs is becoming a problem, especially when I’m doing the dips upright to emphasize my triceps)

Wednesday - 3 x 10-12
Back (width) - wide-grip rack chins - (not sure how easy this will be to set up… I’ve never done them before)
Chest - DB decline press (neutral grip)
Biceps - DB alt. standing curls
Calves - seated calf raises
Thighs (hamstrings) - straight-legged deadlift - (will probably have to use straps, since the rack chins and curls will probably kill my grip strength)

Thursday - 3 x 10-12
Chest - Cable crossover
Back (thickness) - bent-over BB rows
Triceps - wide reverse-grip smith press/elbows-out DB extension - (considering the elbows-out DB extensions because I’m doing a lot of pressing… maybe it’s not a big deal since I’m not doing any direct shoulder work in these 3 weeks?)
Thighs (quads) - front squat/hack squat - (would prefer to do front squats, but my arms are a huge limiting factor because I have problems keeping them up)
Calves - angled leg press (calves)

Friday - 3 x 8-10
Back (width) - wide-grip lat pulldowns
Chest - BB incline press
Calves - seated calf raises
Thighs (hamstrings) - lying leg curls
Biceps - EZ bar curl

Saturday - 3 x 8-10
Chest - DB flies
Back (thickness) - corner rows
Thighs (quads) - back squat
Triceps - close-grip press
Calves - angled leg press (calves)

General notes:
Setting this ramp up has been much more difficult/confusing than setting up ramp 1. As you can tell, my general set up is:

M/W/F:
-compound chest exercise
-back width exercise
-hamstring exercise

Tu/Th/Sa:
-isolation chest exercise
-back thickness exercise
-quad exercise

I separated back thickness and hamstrings to avoid taxing my lower back. I also separated compound chest exercises and triceps so I can lift heavy on my triceps exercises.

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I won’t do my first workout until tomorrow afternoon, so we still have a good 24 hours of tweaking.

This all looks good as well. Get ready to eat! This is a demanding ramp.

Thanks a lot MODOK. You (along with C_C and DH) have played an instrumental role in motivating a lot of young guys here. I guess that’s what the veterans are supposed to do :slight_smile:

Just an idea thrown like that but if you dont feel like doing the same 3 exercises for chest (flat bench, db decline and incline bench) you could possibly do those same (or almost) movements on the smyth…

Day 1 : Flat bb bench
Day 2 : Incline smyth bench
Day 3 : Decline db press
Day 4 : Flat smyth bench
Day 5 : Incline barbell
Day 6 : Decline smyth bench

Movement would be a bit less taxing but still help you more in the way of those “big lifts”

Wait for DH, C_C, or MODOK opinion as im not 100% sure about my reasoning

(I personally plan on doing compounds and rotating 3 exercises for the whole 3 weeks)

Another idea, instead of doing your 3 compound exercises the same way for the 6 days of the week, would be to do your chest exercise with partial reps 1 day out of 2 (taking away the triceps from the movement)

Problem I’m seeing with this: You’re hitting your shoulders with heavy pressing from the same angle 6 days a week, after having just come of 6 weeks of also hitting them heavy every day…

I dunno… I’d consider becoming friends with the pec deck or cable station for a while.

[/quote]

I see what you mean ! But at the same time, you also have 0 delt exercise on this ramp

So basically, it would come down to pretty much the same thing as ramp 1 as far as stress on shoulder goes as ramp 1 is set : Day 1 chest Day 2 delts Day 3 chest day 4 delts day 5 chest day 6 delts

Or am I missing something?

587

Since we’re talking second ramp here ai thought I put my program plan up as well, some feedback:
Day 1:
Yates BB Row
Bench
Deadlift
Pinwheel curl
crunch
Day2:
Incline Bench
Pull up
Front squat
OH tricep Extension
Haging leg raise
Day3:
T-bar Row
Dip
SLDL
Spider curl
Reverse crunch
Day4:
Bench
Chins
Squat
DB kickback
Serratus crunch
Day5:
Yates row
Incline Bench
Deadlift
BB curl
Hanging leg raise
Day 6:
Dips
Pull Ups
Front Squat
skull crushers
Oblique crunch

++note: I have replaced daily calves with daily abs. I have had a hard time finding different calf moves and was training them as an after thought on ramp 1. Also my calves are already dissproportionately large from being a 275 lb fat guy. Finally the calf fatigue on this low carb diet was interfering with compound moves.
+++ Never had any shoulder pain so I am gonna try all compound chest. Endomorph joints maybe?

Question: there appears to be an even balance of chest and back work so I guess I do not get the whole shoulder imbalance thing. like someone said, delts or chest were hit everyday on ramp one, so what is the significant difference? Thanks guys your advice is always valued.

588

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
Since we’re talking second ramp here ai thought I put my program plan up as well, some feedback:
Day 1:
Yates BB Row
Bench
Deadlift
Pinwheel curl
crunch
Day2:
Incline Bench
Pull up
Front squat
OH tricep Extension
Haging leg raise
Day3:
T-bar Row
Dip
Spider curl
Reverse crunch
Day4:
Bench
Chins
Squat
DB kickback
Serratus crunch
Day5:
Yates row
Incline Bench
Deadlift
BB curl
Hanging leg raise
Day 6:
Dips
Pull Ups
Front Squat
skull crushers
Oblique crunch

++note: I have replaced daily calves with daily abs. I have had a hard time finding different calf moves and was training them as an after thought on ramp 1. Also my calves are already dissproportionately large from being a 275 lb fat guy. Finally the calf fatigue on this low carb diet was interfering with compound moves.
+++ Never had any shoulder pain so I am gonna try all compound chest. Endomorph joints maybe?

Question: there appears to be an even balance of chest and back work so I guess I do not get the whole shoulder imbalance thing. like someone said, delts or chest were hit everyday on ramp one, so what is the significant difference? Thanks guys your advice is always valued.

[/quote]

If I were you, which im not… I’d consider replacing the day 5 deadlift with something else as you will quite possibly experience some major lower back fatigue

Just my 2cents

589

Well I am way ahead of myself, I start supergrowth from ramp one in three days, so this starts in a little over three weeks. Planning ahead helps me deal with my training ADD! Thanks for the feedback.

590

Can someone name a good Hamstring movement that doesn’t stress the lower back? Other than leg curls, after all those have very little NMA.

591

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
Can someone name a good Hamstring movement that doesn’t stress the lower back? Other than leg curls, after all those have very little NMA.[/quote]

Glute ham raises… use the lat pulldown/adjustable pulley to “spot” yourself and have someone hold your ankles down. Hold the pulley and use as little weight as you need so you can complete your required reps. You can do this same maneuver with jump stretch bands… or if you just happen to be freaky strong with them do them unassisted.

592

Rounds are a fantastic tool. One of, if not THE smartest way to use a heavy load for high volume and limit fatigue.

Marc, so good to hear that. I had only recently found out about your situation. I had not been back here too long and had not looked around much.

You still have my email? If you want, give me an update on how all is going for you.

DH

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
MODOK wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
IamMarqaos wrote:

Most likely I will do a 4 day BBB like program or QD depending on how things go.

What is QD?

Thats medical terminoligy for “daily”. :slight_smile:

Ha-ha :slight_smile:

It’s one of Waterbury’s programs (to answer the poster before you). Quattro Dynamo (QD). DH knows everything Waterbury so I used the abbreviation. It’s a good program to transition to after a fat loss and conditioning stage, if needed. I react very well to a higher frequency. BBB fits that bill really well but I need to make sure I can handle it.

MODOK, are you also familiar with the Titan Training manual?

Marc
[/quote]

593

jo3,
I very much like using compounds and isolation work rotated on the ramps where one trains each bodypart 5-6x per week. Ramp 2 and 3.

It saves the joints and it allows you to address weak points.

I agree with Waterbury’s statement that frequency trumps all else for size (within reason of course)

DH

594

CC,
I like your idea. Mixing DC split with the BBB template. I thought about doing that in the future too.

I also like this for an idea:

D1: Back, Chest, Bicep, Tricep
D2: Delt (isolation only), legs, calves, abs (minimal)

Nearly an upper/lower since the isolation delt work would be very easy overall. I’d focus on incline work for chest about 50% of the time for those who need extra delt attention.

This comes from an email with SM. Looking at how Hernon split things up vs BBB. By simply switching triceps (from day 2) with calves (from day 1), and using only isolation (and some upright shouler rows too) I think this would work well.

And, I have in the past used SuperGrowth 1 after ramps 2 & 3. While they caution against mixing and matching (and I agree), using SG1 respects the overall purpose of the SG phase being a rebound period. SG1 allows one to focus on load with long rests. I really dig that vs the other two SG phases. I liked that very well as I recall. SG 1 gave me the best results so I used it after each ramp.

I’ll add more later, when I have more time. I’ve had all sorts of things run through my mind using this general concept.

DH

595

Plus, I believe training back is a fast way to add upper body size. I like your idea on that. Then cutting frequency to 2-3x during SG.

Here’s one for ya that I think I like: Using the 4 day SGs after the 6 day ramps.

Or using a DC split (as is) m,w,f so as to allow 4-5 days between bodyparts. Use this for an SG phase and keep the BBB template for all else.

Still ramping and coasting and thus following the general construct.

DH

This is nothing more than mind candy for anyone who hasn’t done at least one or two runs through the program as is.

Remember, many of us have made some of the best gains we’ve ever experienced. so don’t monkey with it. It may well be “perfect” as is. After a good 6-12 months on the program, you’ll have the knowledge to adjust things. And heck, adjustments might not really be necessary anyway. At least not big changes.

That’s why we are running this little informal “study”.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Hmm. Modok and DH, have you ever experimented with creating your own ramps+training phases?

I’m thinking of a phase where you’d basically do back 6 days a week (width and thickness alternated) but only hit the shoulder joint three times from the front or with vastly reduced volume or so.

Simply to give the shoulders and elbows and tendons a rest from all the pressing.

For example:

Ramp 4 week 1

Day 1 - chest (1 set), delts (1 set), tris (1 set), backt(3 sets)
Day 2 - backwidth, thighs, bis, abs/calves or whatever.

Or alternatively:

Day 1 - Chest (1 set), backthickness (3 sets), biceps (3 sets)
Day 2 - Delts (1 set), Tris (1 set or multiple if you’re not using a press here), backwidth(3 sets), thighs (3 sets)

Just throwing that out for discussion, haven’t put much thought into it yet.

[/quote]

596

Funny you guys mentioned running the four day SG after the six day ramp. I thought about that because I thought perhaps I could mix in some MMA training on the other days off. I plan on sticking with the program as it is. Like the vets have said, they made thier best gains doing the original program. Interesting discussion.

Do you guys believe that the reason some seasoned lifters do better with single sets to failure is because they are able to generate significantly greater neurological and muscular fatigue/damage from that one set? I mean when I was using a regular bodypart split, I used the DC rest pause or widowmaker technique on the last set of the first exercise of each muscle group. This parctice did not seem to make it harder to recover, yet some vets are toasted after such sets. I figure another factor may be the warm up/ ramp. If I am going to squat 400lbs it mike look like this.

135x10,185x10,225x10,275x10,315x10,365x10, then 400x10
Vs if I am going to squat 225lbs: 135x10,185x10 then 225x10

The second guy needs to do at least a couple more sets to failure in order to approach the first guys volume. OR is it just an individual difference between prference/training result that vary from person to person based on thier unique physiological make-up and training experience?

597

[quote]Scott M wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
Can someone name a good Hamstring movement that doesn’t stress the lower back? Other than leg curls, after all those have very little NMA.

Glute ham raises… use the lat pulldown/adjustable pulley to “spot” yourself and have someone hold your ankles down. Hold the pulley and use as little weight as you need so you can complete your required reps. You can do this same maneuver with jump stretch bands… or if you just happen to be freaky strong with them do them unassisted. [/quote]

On a related note, how would one pair back and leg exercises to minimize lower back recruitment? My current set up has back thickness exercises paired up with quad exercises. Judging by today’s workout (one-arm DB row, leg press), my lower back will fatigue way too quickly and will compromise my second exercise.

Unfortunately, pairing my hamstrings with back thickness doesn’t seem to work too much either. Currently, I have two isolation hamstring movements (Swiss ball leg curls and lying leg curls) and one compound hamstring movement (straight-legged deadlift). I suppose I could pair my back thickness exercises with my hamstring exercises and get rid of the SLDLs? Or maybe I can put the SLDLs where I think I’ll hit the lower back the least (perhaps with the corner rows since my back tends to fatigue from frequency rather than heavy weights).

If that’s confusing, my current back/leg pairings are:

  1. HS lat pulldown, Swiss ball leg curls
  2. One-arm DB rows, Angled leg press
  3. Wide-grip rack chins, Straight-legged deadlift
  4. Bent-over BB rows, Front squat (or hack squat… still undecided)
  5. Wide-grip lat pulldowns, Lying leg curls
  6. Corner rows, Back squat

I suppose I could do the leg exercise before the back exercise since the leg exercises don’t really kill my lower back (it’s only when my lower back’s already hurting that my leg exercises are affected).

Any suggestions?

598

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
Funny you guys mentioned running the four day SG after the six day ramp. I thought about that because I thought perhaps I could mix in some MMA training on the other days off. I plan on sticking with the program as it is. Like the vets have said, they made thier best gains doing the original program. Interesting discussion.

Do you guys believe that the reason some seasoned lifters do better with single sets to failure is because they are able to generate significantly greater neurological and muscular fatigue/damage from that one set? I mean when I was using a regular bodypart split, I used the DC rest pause or widowmaker technique on the last set of the first exercise of each muscle group. This parctice did not seem to make it harder to recover, yet some vets are toasted after such sets. I figure another factor may be the warm up/ ramp. If I am going to squat 400lbs it mike look like this.

135x10,185x10,225x10,275x10,315x10,365x10, then 400x10
Vs if I am going to squat 225lbs: 135x10,185x10 then 225x10

The second guy needs to do at least a couple more sets to failure in order to approach the first guys volume. OR is it just an individual difference between prference/training result that vary from person to person based on thier unique physiological make-up and training experience?[/quote]

I have a theory that vets can progress with this training as opposed to drop sets and high volume because neurologically (not sure if I spelled that right) they are more efficient at activating a higher amount of fibers toward the movement, while a novice activates fewer fibers giving the same effort because his body is less efficient at it so he/she needs to fatigue his body to get through the ‘layers’ of muscle. That being said I think even the pros that use low volume would probably see a benifite from raising their work volume, though it may not be in strength.

So maybe people who have well trained CNS’s would benifite more from low volume but a less neurologically trained person would need more higher volume. (The vast majority people being the latter)

599

definitely not me lol

600

Sounds funny but I might of have overdone it a bit. In the Ramp and in Supergrowth I took quiet a few sets to concentric failure. I am paying for this now. I am not seeing any supercompensation-like effects and I am in Supergrowth week 2. I am taking 2 Workouts and a weekend of now and will see what happens. Or what shall I do?