OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

If you do this program with the Anabolic Diet you will grow AND lose fat at the same time. I gained about 20 pounds in 5 months and went down almost 2 pants sizes. BUT you will have a week from HELL while adjusting your body to use fats and ketones for energy vs carbs. You must simply suck it up and stick it out.

I started the AD after a few weeks on BBB. By Rhursday and really Friday, I was a shell of myself. Just got through my workout (with lowered weights) and went on.

All my money from my part time job went to protein powder, my car, and my girlfriend. In that order… :wink:

I remember having to get a belt for all my pants/shorts because I didn’t have the extra cash to buy clothes. I got some cutoff sweatshirts (cause they are way too long when you get them bigger in the chest) and a belt for my jeans.

I wasn’t fashionable, but man did I grow. This was the ONLY time I had stretch marks just appear everywhere. It freaked me out. I had a doctor who I trained at the gym do me a solid. I told him about people using Retin-A for stretch marks. He told me to swing by his office and he’d give me a script for it at no charge. Cool guy and a big help since Retin-A was (is?)not FDA approved for stretch marks. He just wanted me to report to him what I thought of it after use. He also let me talk him into a Nizoral script for hair loss even though it was for dandruff.

Well, I never really lost any hair, but my dad was a cue-ball so I was just covering my bases. Again, what a cool doc to help me out on this stuff for free. Neither med was FDA approved for the uses I wanted them for. But he knew there was no harm and hooked me up for free. But I digress…

DH

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
Questions:
-Has anyone, or could anyone post an example template for the second ramp? It looks much more complicated to set up and I want to be well prepared.
-Who recommends doing the nutrition the way it is suggested in the book? What is working well for others?
-Is there a model for how to lose fat following these training philosophies? I know this program is designed for gaining, so what do you folks who have exploded on do when it is time to lean up?[/quote]

[quote]zraw wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
Questions:
-Has anyone, or could anyone post an example template for the second ramp? It looks much more complicated to set up and I want to be well prepared.

I would personally…

Use 3 back width and 3 back thickness exercise going Day 1 Width, Day 2 Thickness, etc.
Use 3 chest exercise (so doing all 3 twice per week)
Use 3 quads exercises and 3 hamstring exercises (so alternating like for the back)
Use 3 exercises for biceps, triceps and calves

I would also (of course) keep the same exercises and try to get them to have the same rep range as in the previous ramp[/quote]

Still stick with large compound movements?
Example exercise bank:
Back Thickness: Barbell row, t-bar row, rack pull
Back width: Chins, pull ups, neutral grip chins
Chest: Bench, Incline Bench, Dips
Quads: Front Squat, Back Squat, High Bar Olympic Squat
Hams: SLDL, Deadlift, Good morning.
Biceps: BB curl,Inc Hammer curl, Drag curl.
Tricep: CGBP, Skull crusher, high incline OH extension
Calves: ??? honestly how many variations are there for a home gym???

Hey. I just realized there will be no delt work. That will be hard on my psyche. Well it looks like there is plenty of work already and I am dead set against screwing with the program anyway.
If I am not mistaken there will be no direct abdominal work either. Does anyone no anything about Vince Gironda’s theory that ab work will completely halt muscle growth? Is there a bases for this thinking, has anyone experienced this?

lol Although I do train at a high intensity whenever I can and WAS feelin run down week3 of the ramp. I do not blame my training stressors to be the cause of my flu.

My father had the stomach flu 2-3 days before I had mine. As soon as his got better, I picked it up. The exact same thing he had. So I must’ve drank out of his cup by accident or something.
But yeah I defiantely picked it up from him and not from the trainnig stress.

I’ve been through a lot of training stress…hell I’ve done SMOLOV with only 4-5 hours sleep a night, + doing activity/playing sports.
I still gained 40lbs on my max squat by the end of the base mesocycle lol.

The stomach flu I just picked up from my dad unfortunately…
Day 2 of supergrowth today! lol

[quote]DH wrote:
Well there are a few ways to look at this, Zraw.

  1. This is a supergrowth phase and the purpose is to create a rebound effect so I don’t think your idea is off base at all. But the one caveat to take into the big picture is duration of supergrowth. On many programs guys will deload for a week. Call it Blast and Dust or Blast and Cruise or whatever your flavor is. In the end its a down week or two at most.

  2. BBB gives you a true 3 week phase. In my opinion this is too long to just go with what you propose. If we were going a week or two, then I like the idea. But the duration of your “cruise” is longer than others suggest. Also, by virtue of fewer reps and sets, the total volume has been reduced by about 40-60% (without busting out a calculator). Then the rest periods are increased dramatically. This creates a longer and more long term plan for rebound/growth.

So, you idea is solid for sure, but it would be better to back off that significantly ONLY if you were using a week or two for a “cruise”.

Now, I do like the idea of leaving a rep in the hole, at least until the final set. But you will find that I like this approach most of the time anyway. Leaving one rep shy will give the same growth response and better ensure recovery.

Now, one thing I should clarify. Leaving a rep in the hole is best left to guys with a good 6 months expereience at least. They know where that point is and they can generate the intensity that allows them to benefit from coming “close” to failure vs failure.

Here is a study that hits on this idea:

J Appl Physiol 100: 1647-1656, 2006. First published January 12, 2006; doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.01400.2005
8750-7587/06 $8.00
Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength, and muscle power gains
Mikel Izquierdo,1 Javier Iba�±ez,1 Juan Jos�© Gonz�¡lez-Badillo,2 Keijo H�¤kkinen,3 Nicholas A. Ratamess,4 William J. Kraemer,5 Duncan N. French,6 Jesus Eslava,1 Aritz Altadill,1 Xabier Asiain,1 and Esteban M. Gorostiaga1
1Studies, Research and Sport Medicine Center, Government of Navarra and 2Olympic Center of Sport Studies, Spanish Olympic Committee, Madrid, Spain; 3Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyv�¤skyl�¤, Jyv�¤skyl�¤, Finland, 4Department of Health and Exercise Science, The College of New Jersey, Ewing, New Jersey; 5Department of Kinesiology, Human Performance Laboratory, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut; and 6Institute of Sport, Northumbria University, Newcastle, United Kingdom
Submitted 4 November 2005 ; accepted in final form 8 January 2006
The purpose of this study was to examine the efficacy of 11 wk of resistance training to failure vs. nonfailure, followed by an identical 5-wk peaking period of maximal strength and power training for both groups as well as to examine the underlying physiological changes in basal circulating anabolic and catabolic hormones. Forty-two physically active men were matched and then randomly assigned to either a training to failure (RF; n = 14), nonfailure (NRF; n = 15), or control groups (C; n = 13). Muscular and power testing and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of training (T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1-repetition maximum bench press (23 and 23%) and parallel squat (22 and 23%), muscle power output of the arm (27 and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26 and 29%), and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel squat (66 and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. The peaking phase (T2 to T3) after NRF resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF it resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total testosterone concentration. This investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains in local muscular endurance. Elevation in IGFBP-3 after resistance training may have been compensatory to accommodate the reduction in IGF-1 to preserve IGF availability.
strength training; repetition to failure; insulin-like growth factor 1; insulin-like growth factor-binding protein-3; testosterone; cortisol
[/quote]

Thank you for the reply and explanations

Start week 3 ramp 1 today cannot wait for next week already!

I’m not followin the diet in the book. I’m just making sure I get 1.2g of protein per bodyweight. And 4000 cals.
And a lot of the food is clean…diet consists of eggs, whole wheat pasta, whole wheat/grains bread, chicken, ground beef, brocolli, mixed veggies, fruit, cottage cheese etc etc. Not that hard to get all the cals in.
I eat 6 meals a day…each meal a little over 650cals…each meal 40g’s protein.
Pretty damn easy actually. Just gotta MAKE the meals…thats the only hard part :wink: LOL

Did Rack Deadlifts for the 1st time today, fucking nice exercise… my back feels like a trainwreck LOL

Gonna keep these in !

Question though how wide is your grip meant to go ? I had my arms by my side almost right next to my legs… should i be going wider ?

And it seems my body likes this exercise: 140kg *12, 160kg *12, 180kg *5 (Ya teach me LOL)

Also added a Tin of Tuna to breakfast more food the merrier !

Entered Supergrowth Phase 1 today with the Back, Chest, Bicep and Calves workout. Rest periods seemed endless being 180 seconds. Having problems with cravings for carbs since I am following the diet outlined in the book. Really looking forward to week 2 of Supergrowth where I´ll hopefully rape PRs and grow a bit.

[quote]GodOfSteele wrote:
Entered Supergrowth Phase 1 today with the Back, Chest, Bicep and Calves workout. Rest periods seemed endless being 180 seconds. Having problems with cravings for carbs since I am following the diet outlined in the book. Really looking forward to week 2 of Supergrowth where I�´ll hopefully rape PRs and grow a bit.[/quote]

Ya lol being conditioned for 90 seconds then your waiting double that.

But with that you shouldn’t need to drop weight keep it the same untill you miss your target reps by 3 or more.

Eat more if you want lol your body will thank you for it !

RE: FLU

Thanks to those who replied. I asked because when this thread started I had never heard of BBB, so I googled it. On of the first reviews of the program was the following:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Review-of-Leo-Costas-Big-Beyond-Belief-Training-System&id=794734

Ends up the reviewer got sick on two separate occasions trying the program, so it popped in my head when I read your post.

If the guy was losing weight while on the program, I think it’s safe to say he didn’t have his diet in line. I’m just on the second week of the program and my weights are already improving in the high rep ranges.

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Did Rack Deadlifts for the 1st time today, fucking nice exercise… my back feels like a trainwreck LOL

Question though how wide is your grip meant to go ? I had my arms by my side almost right next to my legs… should i be going wider ?
[/quote]

I’ve read to keep the hand spacing closer for partial deads, as you don’t have the restrictions that full deads have (giving yourself room for your legs to move, etc.)

Man how depressing…today did Day 2 Supergrowth…I’m so much weaker than when I started the damn program lol.
I did 365x15 on the ramp…did 400x10 on the ramp.
Tonight had squats…365x10 (barely) felt SOOO heavy. Didn’t know a loss of weight and that flu could have really brought down my strength that much.

It’s just a HUGE letdown cause I worked so hard in the ramp for 3 weeks…I really put everythin into it only to have nothing in the end.

Well after I cried in my basement a little bit (lol) I puled my pants up…had a BIG postworkout shake…about to have my meal and god damnnit I’m gonna keep bustin my ass cause I know by 3rd week supergrowth I’ll surpass my old PR’s in the ramp and get that shit.
WHO’S WIT ME! OOO RAAAHHH!

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Man how depressing…today did Day 2 Supergrowth…I’m so much weaker than when I started the damn program lol.
I did 365x15 on the ramp…did 400x10 on the ramp.
Tonight had squats…365x10 (barely) felt SOOO heavy. Didn’t know a loss of weight and that flu could have really brought down my strength that much.

It’s just a HUGE letdown cause I worked so hard in the ramp for 3 weeks…I really put everythin into it only to have nothing in the end.

Well after I cried in my basement a little bit (lol) I puled my pants up…had a BIG postworkout shake…about to have my meal and god damnnit I’m gonna keep bustin my ass cause I know by 3rd week supergrowth I’ll surpass my old PR’s in the ramp and get that shit.
WHO’S WIT ME! OOO RAAAHHH![/quote]

Your post made me very sad… until the last 2 lines.

OO RAHHH GET 'EM BUDDAY!! Looking forward to seeing the PR’s, nail them.

Here’s some squatting motivation broseph, you’ll be back in no time

thanks for the support boys!!

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
zraw wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
Questions:
-Has anyone, or could anyone post an example template for the second ramp? It looks much more complicated to set up and I want to be well prepared.

I would personally…

Use 3 back width and 3 back thickness exercise going Day 1 Width, Day 2 Thickness, etc.
Use 3 chest exercise (so doing all 3 twice per week)
Use 3 quads exercises and 3 hamstring exercises (so alternating like for the back)
Use 3 exercises for biceps, triceps and calves

I would also (of course) keep the same exercises and try to get them to have the same rep range as in the previous ramp

Still stick with large compound movements?
Example exercise bank:
Back Thickness: Barbell row, t-bar row, rack pull
Back width: Chins, pull ups, neutral grip chins
Chest: Bench, Incline Bench, Dips
Quads: Front Squat, Back Squat, High Bar Olympic Squat
Hams: SLDL, Deadlift, Good morning.
Biceps: BB curl,Inc Hammer curl, Drag curl.
Tricep: CGBP, Skull crusher, high incline OH extension
Calves: ??? honestly how many variations are there for a home gym???

Hey. I just realized there will be no delt work. That will be hard on my psyche. Well it looks like there is plenty of work already and I am dead set against screwing with the program anyway.
If I am not mistaken there will be no direct abdominal work either. Does anyone no anything about Vince Gironda’s theory that ab work will completely halt muscle growth? Is there a bases for this thinking, has anyone experienced this?
[/quote]

I’m stoked that there will be no delt work. My right shoulder is dying from all the volume, since I’m using it at least 4x a week (incline press, seated DB shoulder press, incline press again, standing shoulder press). Hopefully, the lack of direct delt work will allow my shoulder to rest a bit.

And re: changes, I’m definitely putting on some fat. My diet has been fairly clean, but I’m eating much more fruit than I used to. Also, I drink about 2 cups of skim milk every morning (used to never drink it). I feel like my shoulders, chest, and arms have grown a bit, but we’ll let the pictures this Sunday dictate that.

I’m incorporating some low-intensity cardio to counteract my fat gain. If that doesn’t help, I’ll drop the milk.

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Man how depressing…today did Day 2 Supergrowth…I’m so much weaker than when I started the damn program lol.
I did 365x15 on the ramp…did 400x10 on the ramp.
Tonight had squats…365x10 (barely) felt SOOO heavy. Didn’t know a loss of weight and that flu could have really brought down my strength that much.

It’s just a HUGE letdown cause I worked so hard in the ramp for 3 weeks…I really put everythin into it only to have nothing in the end.

Well after I cried in my basement a little bit (lol) I puled my pants up…had a BIG postworkout shake…about to have my meal and god damnnit I’m gonna keep bustin my ass cause I know by 3rd week supergrowth I’ll surpass my old PR’s in the ramp and get that shit.
WHO’S WIT ME! OOO RAAAHHH![/quote]

Good for you for sticking with it, Rast. You’re a strong guy and I know you’ll bounce back real quick. Just keep on eating and you’ll show that squat up.

Jo3: Sounds like you are taking a very smart approach to your nutrition. As i am sure you know milk is actually full of simple sugar. I have been doing 20-35 min of bicycling on most days. This has kept me from gaining fat but the numbers on the scale aren’t changing much at all. Friends and family have commented that I am looking “swole” lately but I thick the changes are subtle so far. Keep me posted.

By the way, what general nutritional strategy are you using? I am attempting carb cycling for the first time. It confuses the shit out of my family/friends/coworkers because one day I cannot even sniff a carb and the next day I am carrying rice around with me all day! If it doesn’t work at least I had fun fucking with everyone’s head. Good luck man.

Raturai: Good motivation. If it makes you feel any better (and it probably won’t) I am looking forward to the day when I can complain about getting 365x10 reps. I think supergrowth will bring you back to PRs for sure!
And in the meantime you can take out your frustrations on unsuspecting sparring partners.

Hell i’m up just shy of 40lbs LOL i really doubt that’s all muscle but i couldn’t be assed reducing food my body would go on strike.

Yesterday i added in a whole can of Tuna just because i felt like it (lol)