OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

[pars]

[quote]DH wrote:
I advocate leaving a rep in the hole, at least till your last set. A recent study shows that failure training (F) and not to failure training (NF) produced similar gains and the NF group experienced better recovery.

Remember, the frequency of this program, along with the OTS recommendation to keep reps “fast” but controlled will ensure all MU’s are stimulated AND fatigued regardless of reaching gut-busting concentric failure on each set. This could make or break your success on the program…

DH

GodOfSteele wrote:
SmallToBig wrote:
GodOfSteele wrote:
DH count me in on the 4x a week schedule. I am in the second week, tomorrow will be Day 3 and goddamn I am sore all the time! I dont feel that drained really which makes me question if I am doing it right since it is the objective to overreach a little. Well we�??�??�??�?�´ll see.

No i was mostly ok on Week 1 and 2, though as i noted above Week 3 is already draining me, my entire body is sore lol and i still had to train those bodyparts AGAIN today !

Just bust your balls on the 1st set, then try make it through the rest of them

Taking every set to the point where I can�??�?�´t complete another rep. I.e. muscular failure. As I said we�??�?�´ll see.

[/quote]

I do the same thing- stop a rep or so shy of failure and feel like it definately helps with recovery. I think doing every set to all out nut busting failure is a fast way to burn out.

Pars

[pars]

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
Guys, been following the thread, my third day of the program! 15 rep front squats are brutal! quetion: Are ther any good delt builders to use in this program that aren’t a form of overhead press. I am planning to use strict standing military press on day 2 and push press on the last delt/tri/thigh/ab day. was thinking of using a non press in the middle, any suggesstions? hang cleans (too explosive/ not enough TUT?). Thanks.

Seated lateral machine… (seriously, if you have a good one)

Possibly also: Upright rows, but not done the regular way.
Don’t pull all the way up, bend over some with somewhat bent knees… Sort of like a fairly upright barbell row, elbows out, I stop the ascend a little above the belly button or so. Nice trap builder and hits rear and lateral delts pretty good as well (need a slightly wider grip here, just experiment).
Good thing is that those don’t bother (my) shoulders like regular upright rows do and you can use a lot more weight…
Not sure what to call them… Shrug-rows?

Other than that… I don’t really like regular free-weight laterals (skip laterals, shelby laterals, regular ones, scott laterals…) on high-frequency routines… They always end up irritating my forearms (extensors I’m guessing) and that translates into elbow discomfort (dull ache) that may radiate all the way up to the shoulders.

I’d also go with seated high incline overhead presses (one notch below vertical, usually, from chin to either lockout or shy of lockout…) free-weight or smith machine (non-counter-weighted) over push-presses.
A real fav. of the pro’s, great delt exercise, allows for fast progression and your numbers won’t suffer if your back is fatigued from the previous day.
You can use some leg drive here, narrow foot placement, sort of push yourself up on the bench.
Branch warren goes down to his upper chest, rests the bar there and uses leg drive to catapult it up… Kind of a seated push-press. Works if you have an upper chest the size of his, but imo it’s harder on the shoulders…

Cleans… Not unless you like the idea of doing up to 5 sets of 10-12 reps worth of cleans…

[/quote]

I like the seated machine laterals on my higher rep days or if your shoulders start bothering you put it in the middle of the week.

Pars

[jo3]

[quote]pars wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
Guys, been following the thread, my third day of the program! 15 rep front squats are brutal! quetion: Are ther any good delt builders to use in this program that aren’t a form of overhead press. I am planning to use strict standing military press on day 2 and push press on the last delt/tri/thigh/ab day. was thinking of using a non press in the middle, any suggesstions? hang cleans (too explosive/ not enough TUT?). Thanks.

Seated lateral machine… (seriously, if you have a good one)

Possibly also: Upright rows, but not done the regular way.
Don’t pull all the way up, bend over some with somewhat bent knees… Sort of like a fairly upright barbell row, elbows out, I stop the ascend a little above the belly button or so. Nice trap builder and hits rear and lateral delts pretty good as well (need a slightly wider grip here, just experiment).
Good thing is that those don’t bother (my) shoulders like regular upright rows do and you can use a lot more weight…
Not sure what to call them… Shrug-rows?

Other than that… I don’t really like regular free-weight laterals (skip laterals, shelby laterals, regular ones, scott laterals…) on high-frequency routines… They always end up irritating my forearms (extensors I’m guessing) and that translates into elbow discomfort (dull ache) that may radiate all the way up to the shoulders.

I’d also go with seated high incline overhead presses (one notch below vertical, usually, from chin to either lockout or shy of lockout…) free-weight or smith machine (non-counter-weighted) over push-presses.
A real fav. of the pro’s, great delt exercise, allows for fast progression and your numbers won’t suffer if your back is fatigued from the previous day.
You can use some leg drive here, narrow foot placement, sort of push yourself up on the bench.
Branch warren goes down to his upper chest, rests the bar there and uses leg drive to catapult it up… Kind of a seated push-press. Works if you have an upper chest the size of his, but imo it’s harder on the shoulders…

Cleans… Not unless you like the idea of doing up to 5 sets of 10-12 reps worth of cleans…

I like the seated machine laterals on my higher rep days or if your shoulders start bothering you put it in the middle of the week.

Pars[/quote]

Is it easy to move up in weight with this movement? I’ve always considered laterals (front or side) to be a low weight movement. I can’t see myself increasing the weight very often.

[rasturai]

[quote]Burst wrote:
Wow, tremendous job rasturai! You’re really making me look forward to Week 3… haha.

But on the flip side, we have an excellent example of what to do. Thanks for being the leader here.[/quote]

Yeah, I’d definatly take in DH recommendation of leaving reps in the hole. At least if your pushin some heavy stuff. For the first 2 weeks I was goin pretty all out on most exercises, esp. squats and bench. Leaving a rep in the hole is definately a good thing and will make the ramp easier. THe more advanced you are in lifting the harder it will be too I guess just from pressing heavier amount of weights.
Other things I think would be good to do any type of recovery methods during the ramp, even a massage.
BUt I think the most important things are sleep and food and I mean like 8-9hrs of sleep would be best, and not shortcutting yourself with any cals.
How are your gains coming Burst?

[Cephalic_Carnage]

[quote]jo3 wrote:
I like the seated machine laterals on my higher rep days or if your shoulders start bothering you put it in the middle of the week.

Pars

Is it easy to move up in weight with this movement? I’ve always considered laterals (front or side) to be a low weight movement. I can’t see myself increasing the weight very often.[/quote]

Depends on whether you have a good lateral machine available or a crappy one… Same as with any machine or cable exercise, really.

[DH1]

Heavy Lateral Throws are a good alternative too. Scott Abel advocated these.

[SmallToBig]

FINALLY finished Week 3 LOL

I thought i would never get there

This workout was THE hardest ever, i was completely drained going in, even 2 Red Bulls couldn’t shake this crappy feeling.

I left the gym and came back an hour later and felt somewhat better so on i went

The Military Press went CRAP once i got to 5 reps i was screwed couldn’t do anything.

Then the Close Grip Bench Press, my god tried a new PR got 3 reps lol and i nearly beheaded myself i couldn’t control the descent at all thank god for spotters !

Squats i was so pissed at that stage i put on an extra 10kgs/ 22lbs lol onto my previous PR and spent 5 minutes trying to get myself to lift it !

Finally took it off and off i went no bothers with the Squats lol think my lower body can handle alot more than my upper body !

So all in all half terrible/ half good but it’s OVER lol onwards to the 3 week layoff more PR’s coming !

[Burst]

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Burst wrote:
Wow, tremendous job rasturai! You’re really making me look forward to Week 3… haha.

But on the flip side, we have an excellent example of what to do. Thanks for being the leader here.

Yeah, I’d definatly take in DH recommendation of leaving reps in the hole. At least if your pushin some heavy stuff. For the first 2 weeks I was goin pretty all out on most exercises, esp. squats and bench. Leaving a rep in the hole is definately a good thing and will make the ramp easier. THe more advanced you are in lifting the harder it will be too I guess just from pressing heavier amount of weights.
Other things I think would be good to do any type of recovery methods during the ramp, even a massage.
BUt I think the most important things are sleep and food and I mean like 8-9hrs of sleep would be best, and not shortcutting yourself with any cals.
How are your gains coming Burst?[/quote]

Finishing Week 1 in about 1 hour, next week comes the test for the weights.

Visually, I already look better. I’m more muscular, and lost 1/2 inch on my waist (putting me at 32inches). I think it’s because I’ve got my diet dialed in.

Since the beginning, how has your bodyweight been, and how do you look compared to the start?

[SmallToBig]

Give an idea of how much i have been busting my ass on this program LOL
Look forward to adding ALOT more weight by the end of the next 3 weeks !

Week 1 to Week 3 Progress in Weights

Military Press Standing 35kg *15 <<—>> 65kg *5
Seated Military Press 50kg *12 <<—>> 70kg *10

Close Grip Bench Press 45kg *15 <<—>> 75kg *3
Reverse Grip Bench Press 50kg *12 <<—>> 65kg *8

Back Squat 80kg *15<<—>> 120kg *8
Sumo Deadlift 82.5kg *11<<—>> 100kg *12

Barbell Curls The bar! 20kg *10<<—>> 30kg *6
EZ Bar Curls +10kg *12<<—>> +22.5kg *6

DB Rows 18kg *15 <<—>> 34kg *10
New Back Exercise ***

HS Calf Raise 55kg *15<<—>> 90kg *10
Calf DC Style 45kg *12<<—>> 60kg *12

Bench Press 50kg *12 <<—>> 70kg *12
Incline Bench 45kg *15 <<—>> 65kg *10

[Bonechiro]

Nice job STB. I’m glad you’re so pumped, it takes me back to when I first started. Always keep your intensity up man. Just be careful with the red bulls though, those things are a little crazy

Did my first squat day today. Let me tell you that 15 rep squats are bad. Very, very bad. I wouldn’t wish them on a girl that gives out gonorrhea to the football team.

Actually, I would.

[SmallToBig]

[quote]Bonechiro wrote:
Nice job STB. I’m glad you’re so pumped, it takes me back to when I first started. Always keep your intensity up man. Just be careful with the red bulls though, those things are a little crazy

Did my first squat day today. Let me tell you that 15 rep squats are bad. Very, very bad. I wouldn’t wish them on a girl that gives out gonorrhea to the football team.

Actually, I would.[/quote]

Wait till Week 3 doing 5 sets of them, you will REALLY wonder wtf you got yourself into

[Cephalic_Carnage]

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
FINALLY finished Week 3 LOL

I thought i would never get there

This workout was THE hardest ever, i was completely drained going in, even 2 Red Bulls couldn’t shake this crappy feeling.

I left the gym and came back an hour later and felt somewhat better so on i went

The Military Press went CRAP once i got to 5 reps i was screwed couldn’t do anything.

Then the Close Grip Bench Press, my god tried a new PR got 3 reps lol and i nearly beheaded myself i couldn’t control the descent at all thank god for spotters !

Squats i was so pissed at that stage i put on an extra 10kgs/ 22lbs lol onto my previous PR and spent 5 minutes trying to get myself to lift it !

Finally took it off and off i went no bothers with the Squats lol think my lower body can handle alot more than my upper body !

So all in all half terrible/ half good but it’s OVER lol onwards to the 3 week layoff more PR’s coming ![/quote]

Hmmmmmm. Sure you’re eating enough and all that? At what time do you train?

[SmallToBig]

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

Hmmmmmm. Sure you’re eating enough and all that? At what time do you train?
[/quote]

I don’t know if i’m eating enough i only weigh myself every Sunday so i’ll know tomorrow if i’ve gone up or down.

Today i trained alot earlier, i normally go at 5.30pm straight after work, but today i went at midday…

As i posted earlier last 2 days i been feeling like dog crap lol i just presumed it was meant to happen… tonight i’m heading out to have dinner so i’ll order a massive steak

But that CGBP freaked me lol, think that’s why i was so nervous doing Squats 1st time weights have collapsed on me !

[Amonero]

How the hell do you get 70x10 on seated military, and 65x5 standing?

[SmallToBig]

[quote]Amonero wrote:
How the hell do you get 70x10 on seated military, and 65x5 standing?[/quote]

Standing was a balls today why it’s lower than sitting

Next week i’ll try fix it.

[Amonero]

Ok…I’m at day 6 and strength had plummeted…Hope next week I’ll be back strongaaah

70x10 is pretty strong seated!

[SmallToBig]

[quote]Amonero wrote:
Ok…I’m at day 6 and strength had plummeted…Hope next week I’ll be back strongaaah

70x10 is pretty strong seated![/quote]

I have no idea what strong is LOL

I what i now know was crazy… was trying to bring all my lifts along together lol.

Tried to bring my shoulder press’s with my 2 Benchs

I think even at this stage my Triceps and Shoulders are my best bodyparts, they seem to keep dragging the rest of my upper body along with them

Though with Shoulders every time i hit 5 reps it’s like something just gave up lol and from then on it’s a huge struggle to get more… why i hardly ever get 15 reps with them !

[SmallToBig]

[quote]Amonero wrote:
Ok…I’m at day 6 and strength had plummeted…Hope next week I’ll be back strongaaah

70x10 is pretty strong seated![/quote]

What Modok said in one of my seemingly never ending starting PM’s and i have been doing it ever since was:

Just focus on adding weight to the 1st set, that’s the KEY to the whole program, one you beat it the rest of the sets will finish you off.

On week 2 and 3, you are cutting your rest times way down, which will affect the weight you will be able to lift on sets 2-5 significantly. As long as you are progressing on the FIRST set, you are doing great, and that is what you should look at to see if you got stronger. Due to the decreasing rest, you will have to drop weight further on weeks 2 and 3 of the ramp than you did on week 1. If you miss a rep range, drop weight…and try to hit the rep range on the next set. You won’t be perfect all the time. In supergrowth, this will all be a moot point, as you get your rest back and your sets go back to 3. Week 3 ramp is really to tax your system, not set PRs. That is done in supergrowth. Just do your best to hit the rep ranges, and don’t worry about being perfect.

[SmallToBig]

Cephalic in Rast’s thread you mentioned this:

If you have a decent smith machine, use it for tricep training… Seriously. Especially on BBB where you train shoulders before triceps.

In the smith:

-In-Human Presses
-Wide-RGB (“special” grip)

You can press towards your feet (or try to) as well as up on both of these. Helps a lot with taking stress off the shoulders and really doing the long head of the tris in.
Setup (except grip style and width) is standard pl bench setup, sort of.

-HS Dip machine… I don’t have one, but so many guys swear by this thing. I’m still not a fan of dips though.

-Free-weight CGP, elbows tucked all the way, (suicide)-grip as wide as necessary for full tuck. I’m stronger on that one than on the regular bench press. PL setup.
Not good after shoulder work though, numbers will suffer too much.
So if doing them after shoulder work (say, on BBB), I’d use a board to take out the bottom (shoulder) part of ROM. Can be a fairly thick board, you’ll have to experiment…

What in Gods name are In-Human Presses lol and how wide is wide for RGB… my hands tend to travel fairly far out… got any pictures ?

And if i wasn’t doing Shoulders 1st my CGBP and my RGBP would be better

I really like Tricep work

Also how big of a board if i was to buy one… would i need or could you set up the Smith to stop just above your chest and work it that way ?

You are literally a walking/typing encyclopedia of knowledge LOL

[Amonero]

I would if I could! Don’t have a smith machine and now way in hell I’m doing suicide grip with 35’celcius weather over here…I like my head where it is.

I Like the board-idea, I’ll have to try that! I also find that doing it decline puts less stress on the shoulders.