OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

Training Bodybuilding
281

[quote]jo3 wrote:
pars wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
Guys, been following the thread, my third day of the program! 15 rep front squats are brutal! quetion: Are ther any good delt builders to use in this program that aren’t a form of overhead press. I am planning to use strict standing military press on day 2 and push press on the last delt/tri/thigh/ab day. was thinking of using a non press in the middle, any suggesstions? hang cleans (too explosive/ not enough TUT?). Thanks.

Seated lateral machine… (seriously, if you have a good one)

Possibly also: Upright rows, but not done the regular way.
Don’t pull all the way up, bend over some with somewhat bent knees… Sort of like a fairly upright barbell row, elbows out, I stop the ascend a little above the belly button or so. Nice trap builder and hits rear and lateral delts pretty good as well (need a slightly wider grip here, just experiment).
Good thing is that those don’t bother (my) shoulders like regular upright rows do and you can use a lot more weight…
Not sure what to call them… Shrug-rows? :wink:

Other than that… I don’t really like regular free-weight laterals (skip laterals, shelby laterals, regular ones, scott laterals…) on high-frequency routines… They always end up irritating my forearms (extensors I’m guessing) and that translates into elbow discomfort (dull ache) that may radiate all the way up to the shoulders.

I’d also go with seated high incline overhead presses (one notch below vertical, usually, from chin to either lockout or shy of lockout…) free-weight or smith machine (non-counter-weighted) over push-presses.
A real fav. of the pro’s, great delt exercise, allows for fast progression and your numbers won’t suffer if your back is fatigued from the previous day.
You can use some leg drive here, narrow foot placement, sort of push yourself up on the bench.
Branch warren goes down to his upper chest, rests the bar there and uses leg drive to catapult it up… Kind of a seated push-press. Works if you have an upper chest the size of his, but imo it’s harder on the shoulders…

Cleans… Not unless you like the idea of doing up to 5 sets of 10-12 reps worth of cleans…

I like the seated machine laterals on my higher rep days or if your shoulders start bothering you put it in the middle of the week.

Pars

Is it easy to move up in weight with this movement? I’ve always considered laterals (front or side) to be a low weight movement. I can’t see myself increasing the weight very often.[/quote]

You won’t increase as rapidly as with a compound movement but its a good way to give your shoulders a break.

I usually try to increase the weight and keep the reps at the high end on the machine laterals. So for example if I get 15 reps on all three/five sets ( or whatever ) I will increase it just by 10 pounds or so and try to get 15 reps for all my sets the next workout,

Hope that makes sense-

Pars

282

[quote]Amonero wrote:
I would if I could! Don’t have a smith machine and now way in hell I’m doing suicide grip with 35’celcius weather over here…I like my head where it is.

I Like the board-idea, I’ll have to try that! I also find that doing it decline puts less stress on the shoulders.[/quote]

If you have a power rack with adjustable pins you can place the pins so you avoid the bottom part of the close grip. You could also do them so you are only working on the last part of the lockout ( like a 1/4 rep )

Pars

283

[quote]pars wrote:
Amonero wrote:
I would if I could! Don’t have a smith machine and now way in hell I’m doing suicide grip with 35’celcius weather over here…I like my head where it is.

I Like the board-idea, I’ll have to try that! I also find that doing it decline puts less stress on the shoulders.

If you have a power rack with adjustable pins you can place the pins so you avoid the bottom part of the close grip. You could also do them so you are only working on the last part of the lockout ( like a 1/4 rep )

Pars[/quote]

How does that work ? You put a bench into the power rack ?

Dunno if my gym would let me do that lol, think they already think i’m half crazy as is being there 6 days a week :confused:

284

Also what the hell… just saw 180 sec rest every SET on the SuperGrowth ??

So does that mean, i should be increasing every set i mean 3 minutes rest surely you won’t have to lower weight ?

I’ll be half asleep with 3 mins rest so used to 90 seconds LOL

285

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
pars wrote:
Amonero wrote:
I would if I could! Don’t have a smith machine and now way in hell I’m doing suicide grip with 35’celcius weather over here…I like my head where it is.

I Like the board-idea, I’ll have to try that! I also find that doing it decline puts less stress on the shoulders.

If you have a power rack with adjustable pins you can place the pins so you avoid the bottom part of the close grip. You could also do them so you are only working on the last part of the lockout ( like a 1/4 rep )

Pars

How does that work ? You put a bench into the power rack ?

Dunno if my gym would let me do that lol, think they already think i’m half crazy as is being there 6 days a week :/[/quote]

yep - put a flat bench in there- the kind without uprights for the bar. Adjust the pins that hold the bar so you are starting out with the bar at full lockout. You will need a second set of pins placed at the “bottom” of the movement-this works great to help with sticking points in your regular bench press too.

Pars

286

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Also what the hell… just saw 180 sec rest every SET on the SuperGrowth ??

So does that mean, i should be increasing every set i mean 3 minutes rest surely you won’t have to lower weight ?

I’ll be half asleep with 3 mins rest so used to 90 seconds LOL[/quote]

yep- 3 minutes rest between every set for the Supergrowth Phase. You WILL NOT need to lower weight-just make sure to pick a good starting weight.

Pars

287

[quote]pars wrote:
SmallToBig wrote:
Also what the hell… just saw 180 sec rest every SET on the SuperGrowth ??

So does that mean, i should be increasing every set i mean 3 minutes rest surely you won’t have to lower weight ?

I’ll be half asleep with 3 mins rest so used to 90 seconds LOL

yep- 3 minutes rest between every set for the Supergrowth Phase. You WILL NOT need to lower weight-just make sure to pick a good starting weight.

Pars
[/quote]

Ok cheers for the posts Pars :slight_smile:

288

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Cephalic in Rast’s thread you mentioned this:

If you have a decent smith machine, use it for tricep training… Seriously. Especially on BBB where you train shoulders before triceps.

In the smith:

-In-Human Presses
-Wide-RGB (“special” grip)

You can press towards your feet (or try to) as well as up on both of these. Helps a lot with taking stress off the shoulders and really doing the long head of the tris in.
Setup (except grip style and width) is standard pl bench setup, sort of.

-HS Dip machine… I don’t have one, but so many guys swear by this thing. I’m still not a fan of dips though.

-Free-weight CGP, elbows tucked all the way, (suicide)-grip as wide as necessary for full tuck. I’m stronger on that one than on the regular bench press. PL setup.
Not good after shoulder work though, numbers will suffer too much.
So if doing them after shoulder work (say, on BBB), I’d use a board to take out the bottom (shoulder) part of ROM. Can be a fairly thick board, you’ll have to experiment..

What in Gods name are In-Human Presses lol
[/quote] In the smith, PL setup (arch, shoulderblades retracted/together, shoulders shrugged back together an and drive traps/delts into the bench with some help of your legs, get tight), place bench(if you can move it) so that you can slide your ass over the edge of the bench… Or don’t and just use standard pl setup… Anyway, use an armpit-width (or wider if necessary for your wrists) suicide/false/thumbless-grip on the bar, bring it down to just below or even above nipple level, depens. Elbows flared on this one (usually).
When pressing, also try to press towards your feet against the smith as well as up to take the shoulders out and engage the tris a lot more. [quote], and how wide is wide for RGB… my hands tend to travel fairly far out… got any pictures ? [/quote] If in doubt, widen the grip.
Same general setup as on the in-human press, but obviously you use a wide reverse-grip.
In order to avoid wrist issues, just grip the bar with your thumb and index finger with slightly turned hands so that the bar rests in the crease that the flesh of your hand(s) makes. The other fings just sort of hang around, mostly.
Also press towards feet as well as up. I’d use this on a higher rep day (15 down to 8 even, but not 5-7). Same for in-human press, though you could go heavier here.

Watch Jason Wojo (fellow DC trainee) do Smith wide-RGB’s on youtube… Last exercise he does in the video:

And if i wasn’t doing Shoulders 1st my CGBP and my RGBP would be better :frowning:
[/quote] Replace them with In-Human presses and Smith wide-rgb and you will have less of a problem.
When doing regular CGP (elbows tucked, especially) after heavy shoulder work and you just got a 10+lb pr on your 8-10RM on shoulder work… Well, can be real hard to keep the bar from going all over the place on CGP afterwards. [quote]
I really like Tricep work :stuck_out_tongue:

Also how big of a board if i was to buy one… would i need or could you set up the Smith to stop just above your chest and work it that way ? [/quote] Actually, you shouldn’t be needing a board for the smith variants (IH and WRGB). Due to the ability to press towards your feet (against the smith rails) as well as up, you can pretty much take your shoulders out of the movement anyway.
As for free-weight board CGP’s… Well, you simply have to see for yourself… Depends on your arm length. [quote]

You are literally a walking/typing encyclopedia of knowledge LOL[/quote]
Thank you. I’ll mail you the bill later.

289

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Also what the hell… just saw 180 sec rest every SET on the SuperGrowth ??

So does that mean, i should be increasing every set i mean 3 minutes rest surely you won’t have to lower weight ?

I’ll be half asleep with 3 mins rest so used to 90 seconds LOL[/quote]

You might occasionally manage to increase even… Maybe… Still, it’s more of the same, really.

Concentrate on moving up on the first if you can and just generally try to beat last week set-by-set.
3 min rest mostly means that you won’t have to decrease the weight as much or will be able to keep the same weight for more sets.

You’ll see.

290

(again on board presses: With BBB, you don’t really want to train your “lockout” strength of a bench press, so only use a board that takes most of the shoulder-intensive ROM out of the exercise, but don’t limit Tricep-intensive ROM too much on your board-CGP… You’ll have to experiment with different boards for best results and see which offers the best compromise.)

291

Just entering the 3rd week. Brutal. Good thing someone brought up the modified sets or whatever they’re called where you perform 3 sets for each exercise then go back to finish the last sets. I don’t have to drop off the weight as much.

The mirror’s telling me that this program is definitely working =)

292

Hey all, i just started the 4x week template yesterday. Im a bit worried about losing hard earned strength from training in he 8-15 range all the time… Quick question, are u guys using the same weight for all sets? Ive read the book but it doesnt really say…

btw C_C reading your posts on this site has helped my training tremendously

293

Hey all, i just started the 4x week template yesterday. Im a bit worried about losing hard earned strength from training in he 8-15 range all the time… Quick question, are u guys using the same weight for all sets? Ive read the book but it doesnt really say…

btw C_C reading your posts on this site has helped my training tremendously

294

That One Guy…Jump sets are good where you do 3 sets of the first exercise. then jump to the 2nd exercise and do 3 sets. Back to the first exercise for 2 sets, and the then back to 2nd exercise for the last 2 sets. (rest periods are all the same still).

Modified compound sets are the ones where you switch back and forth between 2 exercises:
So if you have squats and CGBP
Squat
CGBP
Squat
CGBP
etc etc. until you completeled all sets (i did this method for my 5 sets)

BURST: I can definaetly see in my body that I look more muscular and I have gained some weight now also. I can feel though now in week 3 I am losing some strength…which the book said is normal. I’m sure it’ll come back and I"ll be stronger than ever come supergrowth:).

STB: Yeah I saw the rest in supergrowth…I think it just means you won’t have to lower the weight as much. I know exactly how much weight I’ll be lowering in my sets on supergrowth already because I’ve trained on a supergrowth type program (PL stlye) where the rests are longer and I only do a few sets.

295

lol you guys are startin to get FANCY on me! ALl this talk aobut smith machines, different exercises I’ve never heard of. For real man I train ALONE in my basement with some good music…I only have access to my powerbar,weights and adjustable DB’s, 1 back extension machine.

And my powerrack of course. MY exercises are pretty limited lol.

I’ve been having a lot of trouble fitting calf work in. So I have to figure out a way acuse on the lower rep days (8-10) It’s near impossible to get a good feel in my calves with strictly DB’s. I need more weight and I’m un-sure of what to do…getting a machine sounds a bit pricey for my taste.

296

Jesse I’m doin the 4x a week template too. YOU WILL not lose any strength man. I was skeptical at first about the high reps, but it’s the hard work that you put in you actually gain strength. Modok told me to just have faith and believe and man listen all I did before was PL routines.

From doin this I have hit PR’s for 2 consecutive weeks on ALL exercises. No lie. I’m in on rolling going to try 405x15 reps next time the rep range calls for it (probably after supergrowth I think.

On the 8-10 rep range day I did 405x8 but felt I coulda had anotehr rep or 2…it’s good to leave a rep in the hole on this program as to not burn out. I didn’t the first bit of the program and am startin to feel it in this 3rd week.

You do not use the same weight for each set. The first set is where you give it your all and this is where the strength is really increased. And the next week…well you want to beat your previous weight the next week that you did. Then you take your rest and you’ll have to reduce the weight on each set.

If your doin the 3rd week I recommend doing the jump sets to get through the 5 sets as they can be pretty brutal for squats with only 90sec rest.
If you have any more questions just ask and we’ll b sure to help!

297

[quote]Jesse wrote:
Hey all, i just started the 4x week template yesterday. Im a bit worried about losing hard earned strength from training in he 8-15 range all the time[/quote] You will go down to 5-7 reps during the first training phase. You just need to get through ramp 1 first.
Also, strength is somewhat specific to each rep range… All higher rep ranges improve the lower ones to some degree, but exclusively working with very low reps usually doesn’t improve the higher ranges that well…

Don’t worry man… You’ll gain a lot of strength on this routine if you do things right. [quote]
Quick question, are u guys using the same weight for all sets? Ive read the book but it doesnt really say…
[/quote] Usually, one uses the heaviest weight for the first set, then reduces weight whenever you think you’re not going to make the rep range on sub-sequent sets.

With short rest-periods, you’ll have to reduce the weight more, with longer (3min etc) you may actually be able to keep the same weight for 2-3 sets easy.

Jump-sets help to keep the weight high…

If you have an exercise like laterals or so in there that’s hard to progress on, or whenever you feel that moving up in weight would just make your form go to hell or whatever, do the same weight for set one that you did last week, and try get stronger on the other sets instead until you are using your top weight on 3 sets or so and then move up… Really depends, you’ll figure it out.

Generally, try to beat last week set by set.

Guess I didn’t completely waste my time on here, then :wink:

298

Hey C_C for thighs exercise I’ve been doin natural glute ham raises. But after deads it seems that I can’t really do them as properly as I should be doing them. I do them on a horizontal back ext. machine. I hook heels under the leg holder, and my legs are long enough just so that my knee’s rest on top of the padded part where the thighs would go. from there I do the exercise, and I put a plate loader to push myself up from the bottom position.
So I’m thinkin…I can eiter do:
Split Squats (with db’s) one leg elevated on bench. I know these ABSOLUTELY KILL my hamstrings/glutes/quads. One of the hardest exercises I think.
or
Reverse hyper machine: I don’t have the machine…but I just prop myself on a piece of wood that allows my legs to swing fully (like a tall table) with two rods so i can hold onto it. And then I add weight on my ankles.
Does that sound okay too?

Do you think I should substitue or just stick with the natural glute ham raises as best as I can?
Thanks!

299

Sorry CC haha but do you think perhaps I should do straight leg deadlifts instead of doign reg. deadlifts for some extra ham work…and decrease the use of quads for deadlift? I pretty much want to tax the hammies/glutes more.

300

Why are you doing deads and glute ham raises on the same day? Isn’t that a bit too much volume for your hamstrings?