OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

Training Bodybuilding
221

[quote]GodOfSteele wrote:
DH count me in on the 4x a week schedule. I am in the second week, tomorrow will be Day 3 and goddamn I am sore all the time! I dont feel that drained really which makes me question if I am doing it right since it is the objective to overreach a little. Well we�´ll see.[/quote]

No i was mostly ok on Week 1 and 2, though as i noted above Week 3 is already draining me, my entire body is sore lol and i still had to train those bodyparts AGAIN today !

Just bust your balls on the 1st set, then try make it through the rest of them :stuck_out_tongue:

222

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Hey Bonechiro…I’m doin the 4x a week right now in week 3 right now.
Seriosuly I’ve been recovering just fine…I am sometmiets sore the next day but really if your eating enough and getting fairly good sleep you should be fine.
I like the 4 day rotation a lot because I can train muay thai on off days and do anything else that needs to be done.
The volume isn’t too much…you work up to the volume 1st week 3 sets 120 sec. rest. 2nd week 4 sets 90 sec. rest.
I feel like my body adapted perfectly to the new stress.

I won’t lie though the workouts are bloody hard…it’s no walk in the park at all.
Doing 4 sets of squats 8-10 reps and goin all out in the frist set and then resting only 9 seconds is tough!
Even harder if your doing 13-15 reps for 5 sets! lol and only 90 sec. rest.

Just to caution you, you gotta bust your balls and it will test your mentall toughness to go through the pain.

Day 3 and 4 on the 4 day a week split is longer…especially if you have to work up to a heavier weight and feel you need more warmup.
For squats it takes me a bit to warmup probabl about 10-15. mine before I’ll start my frist set for squats…it took me bout 15 min. to warm up to go for 405x8 on squats and then after that I don’t warm up much for any exercise other than bench press I do 3-4 warm up sets. usually 135, 185, 225, and then 265 and then start my set with 300 for whatever reps i need. 8-10 etc.
and then lower the weight each set.

So I’d say give it a go…besides week 1 and 2 arent that bad once u finish both weeks. I’m in week 3 now and have my first workout today…I’m sure it’ll be tough but like MODOK said…it’s only one week out of 6 weeks. week 1 and 2 are pretty tough, week 3 is shit, then week 4-5-6 you supercomensate and set PR’s and get bigger.
Give it a go…I’m currently the only one doing 4x a week split, everyone else is doing the 6x a week split.
DO IT WITH ME lol.
[/quote]

Thanks for the input, Ras… that’s exactly what I was looking for. I was going to ask whether the weight dropped each set or not… I figure with a compound movement of straight sets, with only 90 seconds rest, yeah the weight has to go down each time. It’s like an extended rest pause at that rate.

I’m going to give this workout the green light starting Friday after work.

Do you mind taking a look at my routine and exercise selection if I post it up later tonight?

And yeah I’ll check out your journal if you have one. Your weights are higher, but hey I’ll use it as inspiration :slight_smile:

223

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
GodOfSteele wrote:
DH count me in on the 4x a week schedule. I am in the second week, tomorrow will be Day 3 and goddamn I am sore all the time! I dont feel that drained really which makes me question if I am doing it right since it is the objective to overreach a little. Well we�?�´ll see.

No i was mostly ok on Week 1 and 2, though as i noted above Week 3 is already draining me, my entire body is sore lol and i still had to train those bodyparts AGAIN today !

Just bust your balls on the 1st set, then try make it through the rest of them :stuck_out_tongue:

[/quote]
Taking every set to the point where I can´t complete another rep. I.e. muscular failure. As I said we´ll see.

224

rasturai, would you mind posting which exercises you do on the various days? I’m considering doing this program, but haven’t seen any examples for the 4x per week version. Also, how long on average do your workouts last?

225

I was thinking about this for the 4 Day Split… I know it’s a little tricky because the volume on Days 3 and 4 are the same, so I am trying to avoid too much for low back fatigue and tightness. I guess the question boils down to whether a movement like deadlifts are a quad or back exercise… Any advice?

Day 1
BB Bench
Chin Up
DB Incline Seated Curl
Standing Calf Raise

Day 2
HS Shoulder Press
EZ Bar Floor Skulls
Squat
Rope Ab Crunch

Day 3
DB Row
BB Bench
Deadlift
DB Lateral
Seated Calf Raise
BB Curl
Dips

Day 4
Rack Pullups
HS Incline Press
Squat
Push Press
Standing Calf Raise
DB Curls
CG Bench

It’s probably going to be M/W/F/Sat for me. Maybe not optimal, but it’s the best my schedule will allow.

Thanks, you guys have been really helpful.

226

Thinking about getting some elbow wraps/sleeves…at this frequency my elbows are juuust starting to bother me a bit.

227

Awesomeee got some guys in here doin the 4x a week split with me. I put deadlifts as back exercise, for thighs I put only squats or glute ham raise.

For spaztic and perhaps you can look at mine too BoneChiro this is how I set it up for myself, Just for Day 1 BoneC. I don’t know if you caught on but it’s back then chest :).
Anyways here’s my split.

Day 1 - 13-15 reps
Back: Bent Over Rows
Chest: Bench Press
Bicep: Hammer Curls - thinkin of changin to BB or DB curls.
Calf: DB’s in hand on platform (all i got i train in my basement)

Day 2 - 13-15 reps
Delts - DB Military Press
Tricep - Close grip Bench Press
Thighs - Squats
Abs - Hanging Leg Raise (shins touch bar) or ab rollouts with weight on back.

Day 3 - 10-12 reps
Back - Deadlifts
Chest - Incline Bench Press
Thighs - Natural Glute Ham raises
Delts - Rear Raises
Calves - DB’s on platform
Bicep - Alternating one arm curls.
Tricep - Skullcrushers

Day 4 - 8-10 reps
Thighs - Squat
Chest - Bench Press
Back - Pull ups
Delts - Military Press
Calf - DB Calf Raise
Tricep - Close grip bench press
Bicep - BB Curls

Now I realized on Day 3 my back was FRIED for deadlifts. Even lowering the weight up to 50lbs for the next set!.
What I am goin to do though is just simply do the Modified compound sets for that particular exericse and I should be good to go!
I’ll also be doing the modified compound set on Day 1 for chest and back. and DEFINATELY for Day 3 deadlifts…I’ll do them with incline and I’ll defianetly be able to complete all my sets for deadlifts. Or I will do Jump sets for those. I will see which one I like better but I definaetly am going to do that. This way I can rest more and use MORE weight instead of lowering it to a very light weight for the 4-5th set.
I would rather much do more weight on my 4th and 5th sets in the later weeks instead of do less weight. more weight will equal more growth.

My schedual is Day 1 and 2 together and Day 3 and Day 4 spaced apart.

So I go
Sun: day 1 13-15 reps
Mon: day 2 13-15 reps
Tues - off
Wed: day 3 10-12
Thurs - off
Fri day 4 8-10
Sat - sleep in forever! - off

Also 2x per week on BB bench press days I do Prone y’s and t’s. Sometmies the whole YTWL drill for a couple sets just to keep shoulders healthy, and I do some scap wall slides and just whatever rehab work I want to do. Notthing big/special

I definaetly should be stretching more and foam roll work…just been reall busy laterly with work and other things goin on. BUT DEFINATELY gonna include it now for my 3rd week ramp and for the remainging of this program.

So everyday including 20min. foam roll either before or after workout. And stretching after workouts…very easy to do…just watch tv and stretch.

Lastly gonna include grip work in during supergrowth phase…it’s too much for the ramp phase i think but for the supergrowth should be good to go…2-3x a week some grip work for 3 weeks, then rest the hands for next 3 weeks on the ramp.

Hope this helps!
I’m on week 3 right now. few more workouts and on supergrowth!

228

Everyone here who goes on Supergrowth has got to say some PR’s they are hitting…or weight they have never done before! I’m excited for results man.

229

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Awesomeee got some guys in here doin the 4x a week split with me. I put deadlifts as back exercise, for thighs I put only squats or glute ham raise.

For spaztic and perhaps you can look at mine too BoneChiro this is how I set it up for myself, Just for Day 1 BoneC. I don’t know if you caught on but it’s back then chest :).
Anyways here’s my split.

Day 1 - 13-15 reps
Back: Bent Over Rows
Chest: Bench Press
Bicep: Hammer Curls - thinkin of changin to BB or DB curls.
Calf: DB’s in hand on platform (all i got i train in my basement)

Day 2 - 13-15 reps
Delts - DB Military Press
Tricep - Close grip Bench Press
Thighs - Squats
Abs - Hanging Leg Raise (shins touch bar) or ab rollouts with weight on back.

Day 3 - 10-12 reps
Back - Deadlifts
Chest - Incline Bench Press
Thighs - Natural Glute Ham raises
Delts - Rear Raises
Calves - DB’s on platform
Bicep - Alternating one arm curls.
Tricep - Skullcrushers

Day 4 - 8-10 reps
Thighs - Squat
Chest - Bench Press
Back - Pull ups
Delts - Military Press
Calf - DB Calf Raise
Tricep - Close grip bench press
Bicep - BB Curls

Now I realized on Day 3 my back was FRIED for deadlifts. Even lowering the weight up to 50lbs for the next set!.
What I am goin to do though is just simply do the Modified compound sets for that particular exericse and I should be good to go!
I’ll also be doing the modified compound set on Day 1 for chest and back. and DEFINATELY for Day 3 deadlifts…I’ll do them with incline and I’ll defianetly be able to complete all my sets for deadlifts. Or I will do Jump sets for those. I will see which one I like better but I definaetly am going to do that. This way I can rest more and use MORE weight instead of lowering it to a very light weight for the 4-5th set.
I would rather much do more weight on my 4th and 5th sets in the later weeks instead of do less weight. more weight will equal more growth.

My schedual is Day 1 and 2 together and Day 3 and Day 4 spaced apart.

So I go
Sun: day 1 13-15 reps
Mon: day 2 13-15 reps
Tues - off
Wed: day 3 10-12
Thurs - off
Fri day 4 8-10
Sat - sleep in forever! - off

Also 2x per week on BB bench press days I do Prone y’s and t’s. Sometmies the whole YTWL drill for a couple sets just to keep shoulders healthy, and I do some scap wall slides and just whatever rehab work I want to do. Notthing big/special

I definaetly should be stretching more and foam roll work…just been reall busy laterly with work and other things goin on. BUT DEFINATELY gonna include it now for my 3rd week ramp and for the remainging of this program.

So everyday including 20min. foam roll either before or after workout. And stretching after workouts…very easy to do…just watch tv and stretch.

Lastly gonna include grip work in during supergrowth phase…it’s too much for the ramp phase i think but for the supergrowth should be good to go…2-3x a week some grip work for 3 weeks, then rest the hands for next 3 weeks on the ramp.

Hope this helps!
I’m on week 3 right now. few more workouts and on supergrowth![/quote]

Thanks man that was exactly what I was looking for. My main goals were to Bench and Squat 2x/week with different rep ranges, which is what you’re doing also.

I totally second the importance of stretching. I’m probably going to incorporate some extreme stretching after each bodypart, (DC) as long as it doesn’t affect the other exercises.

I’m pretty pumped to try this tomorrow. Sounds like I should go buy some food to get ready :slight_smile:

230

Every day is a PR Day for me LOL

SO i’d be filling this thread every day so i’ll stay out of it :stuck_out_tongue:

When i get closer to people’s numbers ill start posting, i’m already by-passing people in my gym who seem stuck on the same weights since i joined !

Onwards and upwards !

231

[quote]Bonechiro wrote:
Sounds like I should go buy some food to get ready :)[/quote]

Yes and buy more after that :stuck_out_tongue:

Your appetite will get bigger as you go week by week, has with me anyway im nearly always hungry !

232

After a bit of snooping around I found an interesting article. One of the best I’ve come across in a good long while.

Phil Hernon eluded to basing his splits off of some of this info.

Enjoy:

www.flexonline.com.au/44.html

Best,
DH

233

Yeah Bone…I strethced my hips and they feel so much better from all the squatting lol.
I’ve actually hit PR’s each time too STB which is pretty fuckin awesome lol. I just can’t wait to see what happens in supergrowth! Goin for some big squat numbers

Also Bone…like I said though, those modified compound sets that I just found out about are AWESOME. You will definaetly be able to use more weight in your sets and just feels A LOT better instead of doing 5 straight sets on the bench with only 90sec. rest.
And like I said before…more weight on the bar will mean more growth.

DH…I just read that article…pretty interesting stuff…but seems pretty normal no? I’ve usually rested 3 days for upper body and 4 days for legs always. It’s much different on this program though, but I still have made PR’s each week with an amount of volume I NEVER EVER do lol.
I also think I’m getting a good training response from this program because of the fact I never did higher reps…only 5’s and such…either way it’s all good. Thanks for the article DH!

234

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Yeah Bone…I strethced my hips and they feel so much better from all the squatting lol.
I’ve actually hit PR’s each time too STB which is pretty fuckin awesome lol. I just can’t wait to see what happens in supergrowth! Goin for some big squat numbers

Also Bone…like I said though, those modified compound sets that I just found out about are AWESOME. You will definaetly be able to use more weight in your sets and just feels A LOT better instead of doing 5 straight sets on the bench with only 90sec. rest.
And like I said before…more weight on the bar will mean more growth.

DH…I just read that article…pretty interesting stuff…but seems pretty normal no? I’ve usually rested 3 days for upper body and 4 days for legs always. It’s much different on this program though, but I still have made PR’s each week with an amount of volume I NEVER EVER do lol.
I also think I’m getting a good training response from this program because of the fact I never did higher reps…only 5’s and such…either way it’s all good. Thanks for the article DH![/quote]

By Modified Compound Sets, do you mean the same as antagonist pairings? I’ve done that before when I experimented with an upper/lower. I think the extra rest is a nice change too. I’m kind of like you where I’ve never really lifted such high rep ranges before (13-15). Most of my reps have been 4-6… so anyway that I can move heavier weight, the happier I’ll be in my own mind.

I’ll start my log after my first workout tomorrow. Should be an awesome time. Thanks for your help Ras.

235

yeah no problem man. I’m only gonna use it for the the 3rd week ramp I think for chest and back. but maybe I’ll try it with 2nd week too…feels alright but my muscles are still pretty tired form the other exercise lol.

It’ll be most beneficial for me with deadlifts…cause my low back gets fried from that shit.

Anyways thank god its week 3 lol. Week 1 and 2 weren’t bad…the last 3 days though fuck…I’ve had some things to do and it has thrown my sleep off…ive been gettin 7-8 hours per night and the last 3 days have looked more like 4-5 and DAMN can I ever feel the difference…wow.

I just feel very tired and drained at the moment and well havent eaten much either in these last 2-3days and this is the WORST thing I can do in the 3rd week of a ramp lol.
Anyways though gonna get some good rest tonight and got all my food packed up ready to go for a good 4000 cals tomororw.

236

[quote]rasturai wrote:

I just feel very tired and drained at the moment and well havent eaten much either in these last 2-3days and this is the WORST thing I can do in the 3rd week of a ramp lol.
[/quote]

LOL you took the words out of my mouth, waking up the last 2 days like a zombie and waking up at all hours !

Feel completely wrecked :frowning:

Only today and tomorrow so i’m nearly at the end of the torture sessions LOL can’t wait for it to be over !

237

Well there were a few things that really got me up on that article. First, it seems to be the first of it’s kind. Experienced lifters, high volume, and they actually confirmed what has been “in the trenches” knowledge for about 30 years. Scientific corroboration for our experience is a good thing. That being said, notice how many guys do once a week training for bodyparts nowadays.

The concept of gene triggering being turned off after a few days lends to the idea that for naturals its not optimal to train with such a low frequency. Considering that the muscle protein synthesis stimulated by training lasts up to 48 hours too, the picture begins to show that its better to keep per session volume to a reasonable amount and then hit with a slightly higher frequency (2x per week, once every 4th-5th day like DC) or even 3x per week.

Training a bodypart every 3-5 days was popular for a long time. The once a week fad has taken over for the last 15 years or so with the pros. But remember, they can train with a crazy per session volume and can recuperate from nearly anything.

Also, the AAS stimulate the protein synthetic machinery artifically ALL the time. We have to utilize training to create this effect (as well as properly timed amino boluses) and thus must approach out training much more methodically than the drug user. Basing our pool of training knowledge on genetic phenoms who are on a dozen drugs kinda skews what is optimal for the rest of us for sure.

Now, what I also found interesting is that they had the subjects train with 7 sets using a 10RM. That probably equates to about 60+ total reps in that session for each bodypart, allowing for normal fatigue and a constant load. AND they did a FULL BODY workout for about 8 exercises total. The volume on this session was HUGE. Easily well over 400 total reps and close to 500 possibly.

I would think that we could infer that with our per session volume being much less than theirs (on BBB), that we might even have some info here that lends to the idea that we can train every 48 hours per bodypart (and more for short periods) and use a smaller per session volume, and be right in line with the overall trend of the study.

Our “small” numbers of sets on BBB should be sufficient enough to trigger the gene expression for hypertrophy but create less local and systemic demand compared to the study in Flex. We are using 1/2 to 3/4 of that volume and we are only training half the body at once. What remains to be seen is if training 6x per week in this abbreviated fashion optimizes the conditions for growth just as well or even better than the study’s recommendations.

BBB could well be one of the smartest ways to optimize the dual-factor theory. Trigger the necessary anabolic response while minimizing fatigue to allow for more “doses” of exercise to be tolerated. Continue to do this in a increasing fashion until you reach an apex, then allow for a prolonged period of supercompensation.

I think it gives us reason to speculate just that. And our experiment, given enough guys will stick to it, will tell us much more.

best,
DH

238

holy fuck DH! Damn I shoulda paid attention in english class…seriosuly man you made that TONS more clear for me and I can definately see the more importance of it now. I also was thinking from a different perspective. This is the 2nd time in my training I’ve done bodybuilding type of split…I completely forgot that a lot of pro BBer’s and non-pro BBer’s train once a week on bodyparts.

I had always trained lowerbody 2-3xa week and upper body 2-3x a week with the same exercises. But I just did it for a lower amount of reps (5’s) and only 3 sets usually. But of course I plateaued from this eventually and still kept doin the same damn thing thinking it’s something probably with nutrition, not eating enough.

But really I had just been doin the same damn thing too long!
Switch over to this program and I’m eating exactly the same but the gains are very relevant.

Thanks a lot for your input on the article DH, opened up my eyes a lot more and I can definately see how it sparks quite a bit of interest now. Good stuff.

239

I cannot recommend BCAA’s enough for recovery. Get the powder and mix in something carbonated and let it sit for 30 mins. That will allow it to break down much more.

Its still not tasty, but economical for sure.

Take 20-40g starting about 30 mins prior to your session. You can finish up just before you start or keep on taking it in throughout the workout. This will not only maximize anabolism, but will help immensely with recovery and DOMS.

Just keep upping the dosage till you feel the improvement.

Best,
DH

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
rasturai wrote:

I just feel very tired and drained at the moment and well havent eaten much either in these last 2-3days and this is the WORST thing I can do in the 3rd week of a ramp lol.

LOL you took the words out of my mouth, waking up the last 2 days like a zombie and waking up at all hours !

Feel completely wrecked :frowning:

Only today and tomorrow so i’m nearly at the end of the torture sessions LOL can’t wait for it to be over ![/quote]

240

And somewhere in the distance a bell rings… and an angel gets his wings. :wink:

DH

[quote]rasturai wrote:
holy fuck DH! Damn I shoulda paid attention in english class…seriosuly man you made that TONS more clear for me and I can definately see the more importance of it now. I also was thinking from a different perspective. This is the 2nd time in my training I’ve done bodybuilding type of split…I completely forgot that a lot of pro BBer’s and non-pro BBer’s train once a week on bodyparts. I had always trained lowerbody 2-3xa week and upper body 2-3x a week with the same exercises. But I just did it for a lower amount of reps (5’s) and only 3 sets usually. But of course I plateaued from this eventually and still kept doin the same damn thing thinking it’s something probably with nutrition, not eating enough. But really I had just been doin the same damn thing too long!
Switch over to this program and I’m eating exactly the same but the gains are very relevant.
Thanks a lot for your input on the article DH, opened up my eyes a lot more and I can definately see how it sparks quite a bit of interest now. Good stuff.[/quote]