OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

Training Bodybuilding
201

Careful, don’t get too excited, MD. You might cause excessive CNS fatigue just gettin’ all geeked up about it. ha. ha…

I’m torn on the frequency. By nature I want to push it, but I also think that another few guys doing 4x would give good comparative feedback. hmm… Is Rastauri the only one doing 4x still?

DH

[quote]MODOK wrote:
DH wrote:
Just how old is my “partner” anyway?

You call it… 4x or 6x since I drug us into this. ;0

It would be great to get a group to actually give good intelligent feedback.

Lets talk shop about how best to set this up then.

BTW, Ive wondered about a push, pull split instead to allow for some more recovery. Hmm. But that would skew results from teh gate MODOK wrote:
DH wrote:
It has been so long since I did it. I was barely older than Rasturai. Then looking at ramp 1 it all seemed familiar. Then when I saw 2 and 3, my jaw dropped. I had forgotten! This should be a very valuable and interesting experiement.

I’ll consider doing 6x if MODOK, the other geezer here, does it too! ;0

DH

Awww hell…no you dit-ent! Lol…

I have been thinking about it and regretting I didn’t keep objective data back then, but since the gauntlet has been thrown down, it might be time to just do the damn thing, and get some real good data this time.

Let me go dig the calender out. If we are doing it DH, you are bringing the Geritol and walking cane.

Well, I think its going to be the 6 day a week program for yours truly. I’ve got a 24 hour gym, just got back from vacation, and won’t be going anywhere again for 5 or 6 months that I know about.

I just had my 33rd birthday today… by the time they were my age, Alexander the Great had conquered the known world, Julius Caesar had crossed the Rubicon, and Jesus waas getting ready to save the entire world… damn I’m a slacker.

This will be a very interesting experiment. This program with the wisdom we’ve gathered over the years, and the money to actually eat the best foods and the ability to afford supps that will help things along. I’m working on getting stoked.[/quote]

202

I just had my 33rd birthday today… by the time they were my age, Alexander the Great had conquered the known world, Julius Caesar had crossed the Rubicon, and Jesus was getting ready to save the entire world… damn I’m a slacker.

Wow. I think my T levels just dropped. I’m a pansy.

203

Modok’s rumor on Hernon creating this template is interesting. Anyone know any more about this?

Does Hernon still use this same or similar template to anyone’s knowledge?

To me , the real magic was the hyperadaptation phases. Seems right out of Siff and Verkoshansky’s writings on planned overtraining (acutely speaking)

DH

204

[quote]Amonero wrote:
BBB Day 2-

This program sucks! I hate Cephalic_Carnage for talking me into doing it, but there’s just something persuasive about 300 pounds of pizza-munching German.

BTN-Press

42x15 50x13 My starting-set next time 45x9

Dead Skulls 27x15 24x15 20x15

Squat 92x15 82x13 72x13 Took it easy since my left knee was hurting a bit today. Energy was also low from an 1.5 hour bikeride, 1 hour of squash and 30 minutes of swimming at work.

Wojo Back Extensions bwx15,15,15 Not sure how I’ll load these, maybe a short barbell next time.

Ab Wheel rollouts 13,10,9

Dreading tomorrow. I guess I have nop choice but to eat, grow and progress or die.[/quote]

Glad you joined the team! Go over to Training Logs and put all this info there, there’s a few of us who have already set up shop.

I’m very excited for DH and MODOK to start this, I can’t wait to see some big numbers be thrown around. Will you guys start training logs here as well? Or just keep us posted on the highlights?

205

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
You should definately follow what you did 1st time around, do same exercises Day1/5, Day 2/6

Whatever you do on the 8-10 Day the next week try grind out 5 more reps, works pretty damn well at figuring out weights.

The clammy hands and amped come on Days 2/4/6 they really whack every last bit of energy out of you today i have

All for 13-15 reps / 90 sec rest LOL
5 sets of Military Press standing
5 sets of Close Grip Bench Press
5 sets of Back Squats <<------ OMG
5 sets of Leg Curls
5 Sets of Abs

If someone survives this they will survive any program LOL having 2 Red Bulls before i go though :P[/quote]

Would just like to point out yes i am still alive LOL, never EVER again will i do that day good god 5 Sets of 15 Rep Squats just lays you out !

Sat on the floor of the Squat Rack for 5-10 mins after it pretty sure everyone thinks im insane now in my gym LOL i was sweating like crazy during it.

206

Hahaha great work StB!

207

Hey BBB Crew, I recently joined T-Nation thanks to a friend of mine that brought it to my attention. I have been trying to read all the threads about this book and about 5 days ago I decided to buy the e-book, Wow what a great decision that was!! I just completed Day 4 of the 6 day a week program. So far I am loving every second of it, well mostly enjoying every second after the workout! But i feel pumped all the time on this program and I owe it all to you guys.

I know I’m only on Day 4 but I have been looking ahead to Ramp 2 weeks 1-3 and I see that there are no delts for that whole period? Personally I think thats one of the areas I need to improve on so I’m really concerned about that. I read on one of the previous threads that there is stuff missing in the e book, so i’m curious to know if the no delts for 3 weeks is a typo or not??

Hey Modok, thanks for all the threads you posted I’m finding them very useful. i know that you aren’t too fond of the 6 days 1 workout a day routine, I was wondering why you dont like it? and if you did try it in the past? Also after you tried the BBB how was your body looking? Reason why I ask is because I have competed in one natural bodybuilding event already and july 2010 I plan on competing again. I want to know if this routine is just good for the off season to put on some size or can it be used when training for a competition.

Thanks BBB Crew for all the info posted. I think I’m going to photograph and detail my progress as well.
!

208

Modok…I definately know what you mean…before yesterdays workout I was definately getting clammy hands…what a feeling! lol. never felt this before with lifting weights…very intense…I actually felt a replica of me first entering the ring for sparring. Good rush lol.

If you eat enough you will recover…I find the most things that are fatiguing is my low back…

Anyways I think someone should do the 4x a week with me haha. It really is great…day 3 and 4 ARE a bit long but what’s another 20min. in the gym or so. Your doing 3 sets for the main 3 exericses then 1-2 sets for the others, it’s really not too bad.

209

PIAV - Yeah man don’t worry bout the conditioning…just make sure you recover good…Maybe this is why i recommend you doing the 4x a week lifting. I like 4x a week cause I’m not lifting on same days I have to train muay thai.
I also work electrical full time so, well that burns quite a bit of calories. I’m active all day, esp. now in the summer I’m constantly sweating…Just for lunch time I’ll drink almost 2 litres of water!

If I’m doing lights my hands are CONSTANTLY above my head and my sohudlers start to burn.
I have to walk around all day in heavier boots and go up and down a ladder a MILLION times a day.
I ahve to carry coilds of wire upstairs…when I’m done with it bring it back down.
I can’t tell you how many stairs I climb every single day…but its way too much for my liking lol
But that is my life
I just see it as good active recovery lol.
Anwyays if oyur getting fairly good sleep, taking your vitamins lol, and eating enough…you should be allll good.

210

Hey eveyone…where can I post my training log in the forums? I wanna be all about doing that! lol

Also for military preses do you guys do constant reps or pause reps.
I do my military press…Unrack…get in position…Press…pause at bottom for a couple seconds. Press, same thing.
I feel this is very good for starting strength for the shoulders.
I know that I can do more if I just use constant reps…using the stretch reflex.
How do you guys do yours?

211

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
Ok this is my split

Day 1
DB Rows 13-15r
Smith Incline Bench Press
EZ Bar Curl
Standing Calve Raises

Day 2
Seated Dumbbell Shoulder Press 13-15r
Close Grip Floor Press
Back Box Squat
Weighted Ab Pulldowns

Day 3
Lat Pulldown 8-10r
Flat Bench Press
Concentration Curls
Leg Press Calve Raises

Day 4
Military Press 8-10r
Skullcrushers (to behind head)
Leg Press
(Idk yall wanna help me out with an Ab exercise suggestion?)

Day 5
Deadlift 5-7r
DB Bench Press
Machine Curls
Seated Calve Raises

Day 6
Upright Rows Cable Rope 5-7r (Might have to switch this exercise)
Reverse Smith Bench Press
One Legged Leg Press
(Help me with an Ab exercise?)

[/quote]

For days 2/4/6, I’d supplement your quad exercises with a hamstring exercise. Maybe focus on the quads on days 2/6 with a supplemental hamstring exercise, and focus on hamstrings on day 4 with a supplemental quad exercise.

My split:
Day 2- Angled leg press, glute-ham raise
Day 4- DB Romanian deadlift, leg extensions
Day 6- Back squat, lying leg curls

Neglecting hamstrings is a recipe for disaster! (Yes, they’ll get hit on the squats, but you’ll probably be better off dedicating an exercise for the muscles.)

And for ab exercises:
-captain’s chair leg raise (ankle weights if necessary)
-hanging leg raise (ankle weights if necessary)
-ab roller (do them standing if doing them on your knees is too easy)
-kneeling cable crunches

Hope that helps.

212

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Hey eveyone…where can I post my training log in the forums? I wanna be all about doing that! lol

Also for military preses do you guys do constant reps or pause reps.
I do my military press…Unrack…get in position…Press…pause at bottom for a couple seconds. Press, same thing.
I feel this is very good for starting strength for the shoulders.
I know that I can do more if I just use constant reps…using the stretch reflex.
How do you guys do yours?[/quote]

I use a fluid motion, but I lower the bar slowly enough to where I don’t get much bounce from the stretch reflex. I do, however, pause very briefly at the top of the motion because I squeeze my delts at the top.

Re: your log, there’s a “Training Logs” section on this site. Maybe you should start there :slight_smile:

213

[quote]jo3 wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
Ok this is my split

Day 1
DB Rows 13-15r
Smith Incline Bench Press
EZ Bar Curl
Standing Calve Raises

Day 2
Seated Dumbbell Shoulder Press 13-15r
Close Grip Floor Press
Back Box Squat
Weighted Ab Pulldowns

Day 3
Lat Pulldown 8-10r
Flat Bench Press
Concentration Curls
Leg Press Calve Raises

Day 4
Military Press 8-10r
Skullcrushers (to behind head)
Leg Press
(Idk yall wanna help me out with an Ab exercise suggestion?)

Day 5
Deadlift 5-7r
DB Bench Press
Machine Curls
Seated Calve Raises

Day 6
Upright Rows Cable Rope 5-7r (Might have to switch this exercise)
Reverse Smith Bench Press
One Legged Leg Press
(Help me with an Ab exercise?)

For days 2/4/6, I’d supplement your quad exercises with a hamstring exercise. Maybe focus on the quads on days 2/6 with a supplemental hamstring exercise, and focus on hamstrings on day 4 with a supplemental quad exercise.

My split:
Day 2- Angled leg press, glute-ham raise
Day 4- DB Romanian deadlift, leg extensions
Day 6- Back squat, lying leg curls

Neglecting hamstrings is a recipe for disaster! (Yes, they’ll get hit on the squats, but you’ll probably be better off dedicating an exercise for the muscles.)

And for ab exercises:
-captain’s chair leg raise (ankle weights if necessary)
-hanging leg raise (ankle weights if necessary)
-ab roller (do them standing if doing them on your knees is too easy)
-kneeling cable crunches

Hope that helps.[/quote]

Hmmm, have you ever done Wide stance Box Squats? Only thing that hits my hams harder is Stiff Legged Deads. I consider them a hamstring exercise. And I do deads sort of straight legged style, it’s just the way my form is so my hams are usually sore the day after…but I suppose I could switch out the one legged press, don’t really like it anyway.

I’ll definitely try out those ab exercises, find the ones I like.

214

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
pars wrote:
SmallToBig wrote:
pars wrote:
sorry ,didn’t mean to post it twice!

I must admit i tried to find my way around that place before i found this one and my goodness having found this place how could you stay over there.

All i found on their forums was “Brah this and Brah that” couldn’t make out what they were saying LOL

I know what you mean. I like how guys have journals like “my 5x5,DC,HST,Hybrid Journal”

Pars

Well start one here :stuck_out_tongue:

You’ll find it very helpfull as there’s everything here lol.

Especially if you want someone to critique your form on lifts theres some very good people :wink:
[/quote]

Maybe I will start one of them there journal deals! I am terrible at keeping it updated but will give it a shot.

Pars

215

That One Guy, rasturi, Modok, everyone, thanks for the response and encouragement. After hearing what you guys are putting yourselves through in addition to four/six days a week of bodybuilding training, I can’t help but a little embarrassed by my question. I’ll make sure to keep well-nourished, well-rested, and just ride out the six day a week program.

216

[quote]PIAV wrote:
That One Guy, rasturi, Modok, everyone, thanks for the response and encouragement. After hearing what you guys are putting yourselves through in addition to four/six days a week of bodybuilding training, I can’t help but a little embarrassed by my question. I’ll make sure to keep well-nourished, well-rested, and just ride out the six day a week program. [/quote]

Your eating will take care of itself lol your body will scream for more food.

Some days you will eat more than others just eat if your hungry obviously training 6 days a week you need ALOT !

217

Also just a note i don’t seem to be recovering at all this week lol :frowning:

My back is still in shreds from DB rows, and my legs are killing me. Week 3 is beginning to take hold !

Also think i have LOST weight only 1/2 kgs but still i want to be going up i’ve added in more food :frowning:

Roll on the 3 week growth lol the 5 sets of 13/15 reps really whacked me hard !

218

Just a quick question to the guys doing the 4 day split… about how much time do you spend in the gym on average, and do you like the 4 day rotation? Is the volume a bit much in later weeks?

I’ve been training seriously for about 3 years, even competed at a lightweight category twice (152-155 pounds), but now I am looking at spending the next year gaining and going up a weight class. My prior routines have been mostly Max-OT, which I had good success on, and I recently tried DC training.

I’d go back to Max-OT but I can’t train 5 times a week anymore due to work, I’m a chiropractor and have long hours some days. DC training was great with a 3 day split, but I’ve realized that I am not ready for it yet. I need to bring my body weight and strength up first, while working on technique. I think this program would be an asset because the frequency would enable me to hit the compound movements two days out of the week (squat, deads, bench, press) to work on power and technique.

Any input or advice you have would be appreciated, this is a helpful thread.

Some stats just in case
Height 5’8"
Weight 163 lbs ~8-10% BF
Bench - 245x5
Squat - 275x6
Dead - 315x5
Press - 135x4

If you’d like any other info feel free to ask. Thanks :slight_smile:

I plan on starting a journal also, I think it’ll be a nice place for motivation.

219

DH count me in on the 4x a week schedule. I am in the second week, tomorrow will be Day 3 and goddamn I am sore all the time! I dont feel that drained really which makes me question if I am doing it right since it is the objective to overreach a little. Well we´ll see.

220

Hey Bonechiro…I’m doin the 4x a week right now in week 3 right now.
Seriosuly I’ve been recovering just fine…I am sometmiets sore the next day but really if your eating enough and getting fairly good sleep you should be fine.
I like the 4 day rotation a lot because I can train muay thai on off days and do anything else that needs to be done.
The volume isn’t too much…you work up to the volume 1st week 3 sets 120 sec. rest. 2nd week 4 sets 90 sec. rest.
I feel like my body adapted perfectly to the new stress.

I won’t lie though the workouts are bloody hard…it’s no walk in the park at all.
Doing 4 sets of squats 8-10 reps and goin all out in the frist set and then resting only 9 seconds is tough!
Even harder if your doing 13-15 reps for 5 sets! lol and only 90 sec. rest.

Just to caution you, you gotta bust your balls and it will test your mentall toughness to go through the pain.

Day 3 and 4 on the 4 day a week split is longer…especially if you have to work up to a heavier weight and feel you need more warmup.
For squats it takes me a bit to warmup probabl about 10-15. mine before I’ll start my frist set for squats…it took me bout 15 min. to warm up to go for 405x8 on squats and then after that I don’t warm up much for any exercise other than bench press I do 3-4 warm up sets. usually 135, 185, 225, and then 265 and then start my set with 300 for whatever reps i need. 8-10 etc.
and then lower the weight each set.

So I’d say give it a go…besides week 1 and 2 arent that bad once u finish both weeks. I’m in week 3 now and have my first workout today…I’m sure it’ll be tough but like MODOK said…it’s only one week out of 6 weeks. week 1 and 2 are pretty tough, week 3 is shit, then week 4-5-6 you supercomensate and set PR’s and get bigger.
Give it a go…I’m currently the only one doing 4x a week split, everyone else is doing the 6x a week split.
DO IT WITH ME lol.