I’m interested in suggestions for optimal let’s say bench press vs. barbell row ratio, or if you’d like dumbell press vs. dumbell row, (in regards to weight used)for optimal allround performance, functionality, or posture (whatever applies the most).
To make sense out of my quetsion; is it a smart having a goal of being able to dumbell press as much as you can dumbell row, or could such a ratio cause any problems?
I’m sure there are people more qualified than me who will answer you, but I will say it’s pathetic seeing someone work with 300 on the bench and row 135. Don’t be that guy.
The general rule I’ve heard is that you should be able to pull more than you can push. That’s obviously harder to do for certain exercises (for example your chest isn’t supported on a barbell row so it’s harder to do more weight) but I try to follow that general guideline.
I do not know if there is an optimal number but I think rmccart1 has a point. If you push it you should be able to pull it.
While balance may not always be achieved it is something you can strive for.
Ideally, horizontal push and pull should be roughly the same, and vertical pull should be way stronger than vertical push.
Along the lines of what BiscuitChief said, how do you keep increasing weights for barbell rows. I have always had a strong back compared to my chest but I have gotten to a point where I am having a hard time increasing my barbell rowing. When I load more than 225 or so on the bar I have a hard time bending over and keeping my balance. I am interested to hear what others do for this.
I’d focus on a more practical row variation. Cable rows or dumbbell rows ought to be easier to progress on.
Cable rows won’t really work when I am doing lower reps as the cable stack at my gym only goes to 250 which I can do for 3 sets of 10. I guess I could do one handed on cable or go to DB rows. For some reason I just don’t like DB rows but then again I haven’t done them in a while. Well, I will try them next back workout and see if anything has changed.
1:1
I wont :D.
[quote]2274 wrote:
Ideally, horizontal push and pull should be roughly the same, and vertical pull should be way stronger than vertical push.[/quote]
When you say this I assume your starting point is a body in a standing position? I was going to explain my question this way, but horizontal push becomes vertical when you lay down if the ground is the starting point.
So assuming i got you right it’s not crazy to be able to bench as much as I row, but I should be able to lat pulldown a lot more than I can overhead press?
[quote]LiftSmart wrote:
1:1[/quote]
I hope this is a sane goal cause I’m going for Ãt. Come to think of it I can bench at least 220 but only row 175, while on the other hand my dumbell press is about 77 and my dumbell row 100. Should I try to advance with the barbell row and dumbell press 'til they catch up with their respective others?
Row 2/3 of press is around right…
because if you say 1:1 i say bullshit.
There is a thing called limiting factors ie.
grip - erector chain-biceps -forearm strength etc…We are speaking in strict good form right?(not sloppy-ass-deadlift-barbell shrug-standing almost straight up-with-good -leg-heave row)
Cuz I never seen a lifter who can raw bench 500 -go over 365 for a single in the bb row in good form…Now I can bench near 400 raw but I would say my max bb row is 255ish.
Also remember that the chest is a supported lift while the is not.
Edit: that is in the comparo of bbrow to flat press. Now in dumdbell row vrs dumbbell press it should be pretty close to even steven if not ,Hello shoulder problems.
Dumbell press will always be weaker than a barbell press because of stability issues.
Having it within 25% of your bench sounds good. Since bent-rows require you to support your own body the weight might be slightly less than your bench even if your just as strong doing a push/pull.
[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
because if you say 1:1 i say bullshit.[/quote]
I meant training them 1:1 not strength 1:1.
[quote]slazeagle wrote:
Along the lines of what BiscuitChief said, how do you keep increasing weights for barbell rows. I have always had a strong back compared to my chest but I have gotten to a point where I am having a hard time increasing my barbell rowing. When I load more than 225 or so on the bar I have a hard time bending over and keeping my balance. I am interested to hear what others do for this.[/quote]
T-Bar?
As a rule of thumb it’s best to shoot for an 1100 bench press and a 545X12 Barbell Row.
[quote]LiftSmart wrote:
FISCHER613 wrote:
because if you say 1:1 i say bullshit.
I meant training them 1:1 not strength 1:1.
[/quote]
Not meant @ you I agree training them eqauly .
but if were looking to compare strength numbers compare with dumdbells .Cuz if your stronger by more than %10 on your flat press over your 1 arm knee and arm supported db row - you are looking at @ a variety of shoulder issues in the future.
Sorry to hijack this thread… but in the same vain. what should the ratios be for other excercises…
close grip bench / barbell curl ?
DL / Squat
strict overheadpress / overhead pull
my 1RM on the bench is probably 100-110kg atm and i think i could row 90kg. training them both 5x5 in a superset together. bench 80kg, row 70kg.
@bannanas
Never tested my athletes in lifts you mentioned. We have seen evidence of athletes who do alot of pressing but little to no row movements have more shoulder problems.
edit: percentage of opposed lifts to each other.
[quote]thosebananas wrote:
Sorry to hijack this thread… but in the same vain. what should the ratios be for other excercises…
close grip bench / barbell curl ?
DL / Squat
strict overheadpress / overhead pull
my 1RM on the bench is probably 100-110kg atm and i think i could row 90kg. training them both 5x5 in a superset together. bench 80kg, row 70kg.[/quote]
Just train everything as hard as you can and you’ll be fine.
Barbell row will be limited by your ability to stabilize the bar, lower back will give out b4 lats and rhomboids, so it’s not always the best indicator.
Ever try comparing pushups to the inverted row? This is an eye opener to my athletes, as most completely suck at inverted rows at first, but it’s the same plane of movement and uses bw as resistance so “ideally” you should be doing the same amount of reps…or so they say…
I don’t know if there’s an ideal but remember you can’t shoot a cannon out of a canoe and your back needs to be strong to bench big.