I don’t particularly enjoy doing rows, and I’m trying to avoid redundancy in my training, so I was wondering if they were necessary? I do push-ups, pull-ups, high cleans, deadlifts, benchpresses.
Would omitting the rows cause injury, or compromise pushing strength?
If rows are absolutely necessary, would you guys say dumbbell rows are OK?
Thanks.
why do you hate doing rows? they are GREAT
anyway most every t-mag article advocates ‘vertical’ and ‘horizontal’ movements for the lats, soooo pullups one day, bent barbell rows another day
peace
If you are benching, you should be rowing. If you do not like an exercise, it usually means that it is an exercise you need to do the most.
Not sure what High Cleans are…power cleans, maybe? Anyway, I don’t think Rows are essential, however, I think one arm rowing (as long as its done HEAVY) is one of the most under-rated movements in the game.
I have literally gone years without doing barbell rowing and have actually increased my back strength with weighted Pull-ups.
With that said I do think it is a good idea to include some sort of rowing at least occasionally.
If you want to develop/thicken/widen your back, i would be doing some sort of row, either wide-grip or close-grip barbell rows or db rows.
If you are deadlifting regularly you may want to do dumbell rows, as barbell rows may be a lot of additional lower back work (maybe not). With dumbell rows the lower back is less involved. By the way, don’t put one knee on a bench, keep both feet on the floor. You want a solid base, not to lean halfway over a bench with only one foot on the ground.
I am a big fan of all kinds of rows. You should definitely do SOME type of row.
Barbell rows are fairly hard to do correctly (technique wise) and it is an easy exercise to injure yourself on, if your technique is poor. One hint is to think of your hips as your base (not your lower back). I don’t know if that makes sense but try to keep stable and remove your lower back from the equation.
Another hint for barbell rows is try keeping your wrists flexed (supinated I believe). That is, bias your hand so that when you are in the bent position, your hands (wrists) are flexed “upwards” (towards your front, not your butt). Raise your pinky finger in a dainty position (just kidding about that part). But for some reason flexing your wrists slightly (and with a heavy weight it may be ever so slight) it helps take your biceps out of the movement. Try it.
Thanks folks, I think I’ll go with the dumbbell rows with 2 feet anchored. Maybe that was my problem (I had one leg on the bench).
I don’t understand why an unnatural movement would be the most necessary to perform though, as someone alluded too.
I find bent-over rows (neutral back, about 30 degrees) are the best way for me to get development of the back of my shoulder.
I have quite a shoulder imbalance (i.e. front: big and strong, back: small and weak). As such at this stage bent-over barbell rows are quite important to me.
I developed this imbalance from heavy bench pressing and military pressing. Even though I spent most of my time snatching, cleaning and dead lifting it has not helped to develop the back of my shoulder much. I have found that I really need the peak contraction (i.e. a pause with the barbell against the torso) on rows to help fix my shoulder imbalance.
Bent-over laterals just don’t suit my temperament. So rows are really the only option for me.
One thing with rows (barbell or cable) to look out for is the lower back. Must lock the lower back (i.e. no swing) to keep it safe.
Anyway I really like rows but each to their own.
[quote]Rick Jakubowski wrote:
If you do not like an exercise, it usually means that it is an exercise you need to do the most.[/quote]
I have found that this is a very good rule of thumb.
I really hate squats. Guess which exercise I need to do the most? Squats, squats and more squats!
[quote]bluey wrote:
I really hate squats. Guess which exercise I need to do the most? Squats, squats and more squats!
[/quote]
Bluey is my new hero.
Dan “Ferris Bueller, you’re my hero” McVicker
Zulu,the famous trainer Vince Gironda suggested V-parallel bar dips to bulk upper body. For UPPER BACK he reported:“The next exercise to employ is for width across the upper back. You may be surprised to learn at this point that I am not suggesting latissimus dorsi work. Why? Because long lats destroy a dramatic taper which we are trying to achieve. The teres major, however, does just the opposite by producing a wide shoulder and back appearance. The exercise suggested is Seated Horizontal Pulley Rowing. Teres major muscles are engaged by a horizontal pull to the chest with the chest concave, or chest up (chest up produces more back width). In my gym, I had a special piece of equipment, which I designed with a horizontal pull. The pulley is 16 inches off the floor and you site and pull a 24” wide handle back to your chest with the legs slightly bent. It is important to always touch the chest at the bottom of the sternum to insure maximum contraction. Also, remember to keep the elbows up away from the body".
Personally, during ABBH, I used bench and rows one day (pushing/pulling horizontal) , pullups and military presses another day (pushing/pulling). With this approach,I had certainly an upper body improvement
You can’t just not do rows.
If it’s the bending over part that you hate, why don’t you lie on a flat or incline bench and use either a curved barbell or dumbells to do rows. That’s what I do and I love it that way.
And yea that’s so true what ppl are saying… The exercises you hate are most likely the ones you need to be doing.
Here’s the deal how’s your posture? Stupid question not really. If your posture is bad rounded shoulder) u, should add the rows in. If not don’t worry about. Your back will grow w/ deads and pull-ups.
What I hate about rows is my tendency to cheat. I like exercises where I can give it all I’ve got without worrying about cheating (deadlifts, pull-ups,etc.)
Zulu,
You make a valid point! I wonder if placing your head on a high stool would discourage cheating?
I have done them this way in the past and it seemed to work for me. What do you think?
[quote]Zulu wrote:
Thanks folks, I think I’ll go with the dumbbell rows with 2 feet anchored. Maybe that was my problem (I had one leg on the bench).
I don’t understand why an unnatural movement would be the most necessary to perform though, as someone alluded too.[/quote]
If you think about it rows are are just a hybrid of a natural movement. Pulling yourself toward something, as you would in climbing a tree uses a process similar to rows.
ZEB, I gave that a quick try and I think it’ll work. Thanks!
[quote]What I hate about rows is my tendency to cheat. I like exercises where I can give it all I’ve got without worrying about cheating (deadlifts, pull-ups,etc.)
[/quote]
Barbell rows take a certain amount of skill to perform. Maybe not as much skill as an Olympic lift, but you need some skill to perform the move correctly without risk. With barbell rows, you need to end the set when you start to break your form, or you increase the risk of injury.
I often resort to dumbell rows if I am rowing late into my workout, I am already fatigued, and don’t think I can perform an exercise that takes a lot of skill and control. Dumbell rows require less skill because you’re supporting your upper body.
As ZEB suggests, an excellent trick to help you learn the barbell row movement is to support your head on a medium high bench, but as your weights go up be careful not to push with your head. You can hurt your neck if you push too hard on the support with your head. Use the bench to help with your balance, but don’t make it a cornerstone part of your ‘base’.
Do ya have to do rows, no. But it’s like trying to get strong legs and hips without doing squats… try to pick the exercises that are the most direct. For your back, rows are a solid choice, and not doing any type of row (even a machine row) seems neglectful. There are so many grips and variations that it’s hard to imagine not finding at least one variation that you really like.
One more thing, about the dumbell row. The biggest mistake I see guys make is that they don’t use enough dang weight! If you are doing a one armed bent row and only handling 35 or 45 pounds (and are not a total rookie) you are not being serious about your rowing. I can’t believe how many intermediate and even advanced trainers I see in my gym who are rowing with 45 or 50 pounds. Guys, this is a movement you should try to load up on, if you have some experience and skill.
If you do Oympic pulling movements you do not need to do rows of any kind! The Olympic pulling movements hit the upper and lower back much harder than rows do. If you are doing pull-ups, deads, and some olympic pulling movement you are hitting every possible muscle group in the back hard and adding rows would just be redundant. If you are paranoid about balnces in the shoulder, just do some dumbell external rotations at the end of your workout (but you really don’t need to unless you already have shoulder problems). It may be difficult for bodybuilders, who don’t do heavy Olympic pulling movements to believe, but learn to do pulls correctly and do them for a couple of months and you will understand.