Opinions on Concentration Curls

Training Beginners
41

Since we have all this controversy on here about a bunch of shit regarding deadlifts nd squats, IMO i enjoy concentration curls espescially for a finisher in my bicep W.O. because they exagerate my pump. To gain bicep mass for myslef i have found that Barbell Curls and Cheat curls have benefitted me the most with preacher curls in a close second.

I like to use heavy weight and go in the 4-6 rep range,6-8 w/ preacher curls. I do anywhere from 8-12 sets of bicep movement in a session. Also on your quest for arm mass I wold make sure you hit your triceps pretty hard as added tricep size will surely stretch the tape measure.

For triceps close-grip benches and skull crushers seemed to have put the most mass on for myself. On a final note, if you enjoy concentration curls i would deffinately tell you to keep doing them just not to base your bicep workout around them. So add barbell or dumbell curls to you routine and i think that you will have a pretty sound bicep program.

i would also suggest that you start your workout w/ the most strenuous lift first so if you choose conc. curls and bb curls to due the bb curls fist while you have the most energy and focus.

austin

42

[quote]2lb Monkey wrote:
So then should I ditch my arms day, having 4 workout days (having three days a week rest, ummm), allowing my arms to build via the other exercises, like deadlifts, squats, and if so where are these so called ‘no direct bicep work’ workouts.[/quote]

No if you want nice biceps you need to curl

43

I’d add the Curls at the end of your back/pull day(s), depending how you setted up your routine, as the finisher to your biceps.

44

[quote]detazathoth wrote:
USNS physique wrote:
Who in their right mind would tell a guy who wanted big lats to squat? Makes no sense…want big legs? Squat. Big shoulders? Press. Big chest? Dips or bench press…Squat isn’t the catch-all answer to all questions.

Have you ever done anything close to heavy squats or any kind? Heavy Back/Front/Hack Squats? I don’t know about you guys, but my Lats are fried from heavy Front Squats, my shoulders are fried from back squats, and I get arm pumps from Hack Squats, I thought I’d like to share.
[/quote]

I’m curious, is this common? I don’t feel my arms being worked during any form of Squat and I’ve maxed out on all of those variations at some point.

I feel Back Squats in my lower back and legs.

I feel Front Squats in my abs and legs.

I feel Hack Squats (Barbell) in only my legs.

Where do you guys feel them?

45

[quote]IQ wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
USNS physique wrote:
Who in their right mind would tell a guy who wanted big lats to squat? Makes no sense…want big legs? Squat. Big shoulders? Press. Big chest? Dips or bench press…Squat isn’t the catch-all answer to all questions.

Have you ever done anything close to heavy squats or any kind? Heavy Back/Front/Hack Squats? I don’t know about you guys, but my Lats are fried from heavy Front Squats, my shoulders are fried from back squats, and I get arm pumps from Hack Squats, I thought I’d like to share.

I’m curious, is this common? I don’t feel my arms being worked during any form of Squat and I’ve maxed out on all of those variations at some point.

I feel Back Squats in my lower back and legs.

I feel Front Squats in my abs and legs.

I feel Hack Squats (Barbell) in only my legs.

Where do you guys feel them?[/quote]

in my legs where im supposed to

46

[quote]IQ wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
USNS physique wrote:
Who in their right mind would tell a guy who wanted big lats to squat? Makes no sense…want big legs? Squat. Big shoulders? Press. Big chest? Dips or bench press…Squat isn’t the catch-all answer to all questions.

Have you ever done anything close to heavy squats or any kind? Heavy Back/Front/Hack Squats? I don’t know about you guys, but my Lats are fried from heavy Front Squats, my shoulders are fried from back squats, and I get arm pumps from Hack Squats, I thought I’d like to share.

I’m curious, is this common? I don’t feel my arms being worked during any form of Squat and I’ve maxed out on all of those variations at some point.

I feel Back Squats in my lower back and legs.

I feel Front Squats in my abs and legs.

I feel Hack Squats (Barbell) in only my legs.

Where do you guys feel them?[/quote]

In my legs.

Zercher squats would really be the only type of squat that I might see as giving any kind of significant stress to the arm flexors.

47

I guess I’m weird.

48

If you’re caught doing concentration curls in my gym, you are pointed out, laughed at and publicly humiliated.

I sneak one in once in a while when nobody’s looking.

49

[quote]Defiant1 wrote:

Having COMPETED in arm wrestling, I can assure that heavyweight arm wrestlers have big arms, and disproportionately small legs, in general. Arm wrestling is not really about arm strength anyway (it is rotator cuff strength…the arm flexors prevent loss, in an isometric manner …they don’t win matches for you).

“Small” powerlifters ALSO have small arms. Smaller than the same weight of arm wrestler I would venture…despite doing squats and deads.

If someone wants to gain overall mass, then advising to do basic full body workouts as a beginner is great.

But when someone asks a specific question about bicep training, advising them to do squats and deadlifts is nonsense IMO.
[/quote]

Thanks for proving my point. Heavyweight arm wrestlers have big arms? Small Powerlifters have small arms…

Hmmmmmm are you trying to say that arm size has something to do with weight? Are these Heavyweight armwrestlers? just some genetic freaks with 50lb arms, 5lbs chest 5 lb back and 5lbs legs? Let me guess your going to say yes. Small People Have Small muscles.

I’m glad you were able to figure out the post of the OP, but I am talking about the point of all the people mentioning squats. If you perform squats and deadlifts enough to build your body up, you will have proportionately bigger body parts as a whole.

Now if he goes and does some a specific program to build his 1 rep max squat up, NO he will not gain any size in his arms he won’t gain any size in his lets neither. But if he follows a program where he brings his deadlifts 10rm up 100lbs he will be noticably bigger arms and torso, and at that point he can do some concentration curls with alot better effectiveness.

Gyms I go to people don’t just do curls and go home. Even top heavy ones row and bench building mass.

Heres a 200lbs kid whose squatting 150 and concetration curl 45lbs, if all he focus’s on is concentration curl he will be bitching about the same thing next year. Then somebody will come on and tell him he just doesn’t have the genetics

50

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Defiant1 wrote:

Having COMPETED in arm wrestling, I can assure that heavyweight arm wrestlers have big arms, and disproportionately small legs, in general. Arm wrestling is not really about arm strength anyway (it is rotator cuff strength…the arm flexors prevent loss, in an isometric manner …they don’t win matches for you).

“Small” powerlifters ALSO have small arms. Smaller than the same weight of arm wrestler I would venture…despite doing squats and deads.

If someone wants to gain overall mass, then advising to do basic full body workouts as a beginner is great.

But when someone asks a specific question about bicep training, advising them to do squats and deadlifts is nonsense IMO.

Thanks for proving my point. Heavyweight arm wrestlers have big arms? Small Powerlifters have small arms…

Hmmmmmm are you trying to say that arm size has something to do with weight? Are these Heavyweight armwrestlers? just some genetic freaks with 50lb arms, 5lbs chest 5 lb back and 5lbs legs? Let me guess your going to say yes. Small People Have Small muscles.

I’m glad you were able to figure out the post of the OP, but I am talking about the point of all the people mentioning squats. If you perform squats and deadlifts enough to build your body up, you will have proportionately bigger body parts as a whole.

Now if he goes and does some a specific program to build his 1 rep max squat up, NO he will not gain any size in his arms he won’t gain any size in his lets neither. But if he follows a program where he brings his deadlifts 10rm up 100lbs he will be noticably bigger arms and torso, and at that point he can do some concentration curls with alot better effectiveness.

Gyms I go to people don’t just do curls and go home. Even top heavy ones row and bench building mass.

Heres a 200lbs kid whose squatting 150 and concetration curl 45lbs, if all he focus’s on is concentration curl he will be bitching about the same thing next year. Then somebody will come on and tell him he just doesn’t have the genetics
[/quote]

We’re just going in circles.

You said I proved your point…yet you acknowledge that doing squats and deadlifts (via powerlifters) does not guarantee big arms. The idea of “gaining weight making your whole body bigger” is circular (I see it all the time-doesn’t make it correct, it is still circular).

That is like saying “getting your arms up to 20 inches will make your bench will go up, therefore training for arm size should be the goal of your powerlifting training”

If someone wants to develop their arms IN PARTICULAR, then arm training is the most efficient way to do it.

Aesthetic or bodybuilding-morality arguments aside.

The sine quo non is ARM TRAINING.

Bottom line: For big arms, train arms.

Your point (the general point) about training the overall body etc is a good one…if one wants to devote themselves to that.

The OP said he wanted to know if concentration curls were a viable alternative to bb curls. To which the parrot song “squats/deads” began being chirped.

Are concentration curls the go to for beginning bicep training? No. Nor are squats and deads except on the interwebz.

But if someone feels them should they use them?

Of course.

I would like to see ANY kind of evidence that squats/deads build more arm size than direct arm training, all things being equal.

51

I use squats and deads to build my legs and back and let the close grip presses and curls build my arms. Concentration curls are ok, but you aren’t really going to progress in weight on them like you could a standing barbell curl.

52

[quote]Defiant1 wrote:

I would like to see ANY kind of evidence that squats/deads build more arm size than direct arm training, all things being equal. [/quote]

You keep saying powerlifter. A focus on powerlifting and bodybuilding are two totally different things. Powerlifters unless heavy weights try to stay in a weight class meaning they can’t get too big overall. Their rep ranges and meals are different. Powerlifters are also not the only ones to squat or deadlift.(Although even using them as the case, most still have pretty decent arms)

Your not going to find a study proving either case, just masses of people with huge arms, trainers and their internet coharts saying do deadlifts…curl later. Or a few people with average gym goer size arms, and internet contradictionist saying do concentration curls.

For the record I understand what the OP was asking, and think most of answers were helpful. I chimed in on the subject of the usefullness of other exercises to someone who wants bigger biceps. So unless you want my opinion on the OP’s question no need to repeated a fourth time.

53

I might try and ditch the bitch for now, see how that works out (other parts of my workout seem to give my arms some workout, so its all good, and I don’t really want the same muscle working the next day, as its dangerous I believe).

I may come to a concluson and do some bicep work, but I’l check what works best.

Also, I thought that numbers didn’t matter? We all sart somewhere. And anyway, I’ve gone from 70kg (I didn’t load too much on the bar the first time as I didn’t want to get badly hurt)to 80kg with ease only haivng sarted squats a week and a half ago, and I think my max is 100kg, as 80kg I can do for about 5 reps. Its building anyway.

54

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Defiant1 wrote:

I would like to see ANY kind of evidence that squats/deads build more arm size than direct arm training, all things being equal.

You keep saying powerlifter. A focus on powerlifting and bodybuilding are two totally different things. Powerlifters unless heavy weights try to stay in a weight class meaning they can’t get too big overall. Their rep ranges and meals are different. Powerlifters are also not the only ones to squat or deadlift.(Although even using them as the case, most still have pretty decent arms)

Your not going to find a study proving either case, just masses of people with huge arms, trainers and their internet coharts saying do deadlifts…curl later. Or a few people with average gym goer size arms, and internet contradictionist saying do concentration curls.

For the record I understand what the OP was asking, and think most of answers were helpful. I chimed in on the subject of the usefullness of other exercises to someone who wants bigger biceps. So unless you want my opinion on the OP’s question no need to repeated a fourth time.[/quote]

Masses of people with huge arms?

Example?

Do you have any books on BODYBUILDING? Or, any sources from BODYBUILDERS that advocate your way of thinking?

To not train arms directly until one reaches a certain level of size?

I have THIRTY minimum that say otherwise.

Do you train at a gym? And do you honestly believe that MOST BODYBUILDERS train the way you are saying?

Not around here or at any gym I’ve ever been to, trained at…or worked at.

Meh.

I guess too much time on the 'net, the 'net starts to become reality…

If you are looking for science that supports what I am saying…

Start with the S.A.I.D. principle…

You are saying that the body will adapt NON SPECIFICALLY to an imposed demand (indirect effect, which incidently was born out of “Nautilus” thinking).

Also, basic mechanisms of hypertrophy…

What elicits more protein degradation of the biceps? Curls, or Deadlifts?

What elicits more NEURAL activity in the biceps, curls, or deadlifts?

Most muscles exhibit maximum force at about 110 degrees of joint angle. Curls, or deadlifts?

Even Pavel, who is about as basic and “non bodybuilding” as you can get…

Advocated CURLS for those who wish to build biceps. He is just against the fascination with big biceps…

55

This is one of the few debates the very existence of which continues to baffle me.

Some people with big arms don’t do direct work and if they’re happy then fine. The people with the biggest arms do do direct work and I’ll go out on a limb and guess that these 2 groups train for different goals.

If you aren’t overly concerned with massive arm size then train how you want, but here’s an astonishing revolutionary fact. Nobody’s testicles ever fell off because they did bicep, tricep or forearm exercises and regardless of how it’s spun the biggest arms in history have been constructed with the help of those exercises. So I’ll ask for the 1000th time. Why NOT train arms? Is it to attempt to prove something? Is it to feel a sense eliteness for not having been fooled by history?

Relatively few people need a day for arms by themselves, but what is so unthinkably, maybe even terrifyingly repulsive about doing some arm exercises? People act like their deciding to get plastic surgery or ask someone to marry them. It won’t forever alter the course of your life, I promise, but your arms may get bigger, maybe even stronger God forbid.

56

I don’t train arms because of the opportunity cost of doing do. Every minute I’m doing concentration curls is one that I am not squatting, doing chinups, or whatever.

I have limited time and juice in my tank (for want of a better term) each workout and each week.

I would rather spend that time and energy where I get maximal returns. For me, that’s not doing something that will eventually add half an inch to my bicep but do nothing for any of the other measurements I might like to improve (BF%, max lifts, lean mass, chest size, back size, leg size etc).

I think a lot of the distaste for arm work is because so often it becomes the focus of a routine and people wind up doing a frat boy routine that gets them nowhere.

I think the squat gang in this thread (yes this includes me) were trying to point out that if you’re a tubby stick figure and magically add two inches to your biceps with your awesome arm routine, well then you’ll still be a tubby stick figure with comically bulbous arms stuck in a paper bag. But if you do squats and deads etc you might just add half an inch to every major muscle group, drop some bodyfat, and be able to curl more when you do want to add 2 inches to your biceps. In other words you’ll stop being a tubby stick figure and be able to do a lot more real world stuff.

Plus the human body just won’t let one body part grow more than a certain amount out of proportion with all the others so unless you get big legs, your body just won’t let you get big arms.

57

[quote]kiwinomad wrote:
I don’t train arms because of the opportunity cost of doing do. Every minute I’m doing concentration curls is one that I am not squatting, doing chinups, or whatever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[/quote]

This is a reasonable levelheaded post, but here we go again. Who said anything about an arm routine. Lemme tell you how I do it. I train biceps after back and triceps after shoulders and chest. By the time I’m done with the compound exercises that make up the vast majority of my training, my arms are tuned up to say the least.

To finish up back day I will do 2-4 sets of something for biceps, say a heavy hard set of plain ol barbell curls and a set of hammers. Some days I’ll throw in some concentration, preacher or even reverse curls. On a particularly ambitious day I’ll do a couple more. Takes maybe ten minutes give or take.

Same with triceps pretty much. After chest I’ll do 2 sets of something each way. 2 sets overhead, 2 sets flat and 2 sets of pushdowns. Always very hard n heavy, but the exercises will vary depending on how I feel. Takes maybe 15 minutes.

It’s a nice slam on muscle groups that have already seen some significant work from the rest of the workout and yes it works at least for me. My arms are growing top and bottom. Would they grow if I didn’t do this? Probably. Would they grow as much, no way. To me that is plenty return relative to time and effort spent.

I think people’s propensity to think in extremes is nowhere more evident than in the iron game. It’s either no direct work or a whole routine. I say something like what I’ve described in some form would be fine for a lot of people. Adjusted for the individual of course.

58

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
kiwinomad wrote:
I don’t train arms because of the opportunity cost of doing do. Every minute I’m doing concentration curls is one that I am not squatting, doing chinups, or whatever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is a reasonable levelheaded post, but here we go again. Who said anything about an arm routine. Lemme tell you how I do it. I train biceps after back and triceps after shoulders and chest. By the time I’m done with the compound exercises that make up the vast majority of my training, my arms are tuned up to say the least.

To finish up back day I will do 2-4 sets of something for biceps, say a heavy hard set of plain ol barbell curls and a set of hammers. Some days I’ll throw in some concentration, preacher or even reverse curls. On a particularly ambitious day I’ll do a couple more. Takes maybe ten minutes give or take.

Same with triceps pretty much. After chest I’ll do 2 sets of something each way. 2 sets overhead, 2 sets flat and 2 sets of pushdowns. Always very hard n heavy, but the exercises will vary depending on how I feel. Takes maybe 15 minutes.

It’s a nice slam on muscle groups that have already seen some significant work from the rest of the workout and yes it works at least for me. My arms are growing top and bottom. Would they grow if I didn’t do this? Probably. Would they grow as much, no way. To me that is plenty return relative to time and effort spent.

I think people’s propensity to think in extremes is nowhere more evident than in the iron game. It’s either no direct work or a whole routine. I say something like what I’ve described in some form would be fine for a lot of people. Adjusted for the individual of course.[/quote]

Spot on, well said.

Again, people have a hard time grasping simple concepts.

59

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Why NOT train arms? Is it to attempt to prove something? Is it to feel a sense eliteness for not having been fooled by history?
[/quote]

I’d rather spend my energy doing squats, dead lifts, benching, dips, shoulder presses … etc.

I’d rather spend my energy repairing my muscles from damage done by the before mentioned lifts.

I feel that my biceps get a decent amount of stimulation when working my back.

I don’t care that much about my biceps. Big shoulders and triceps look cooler; ever seen those pictures of Dave Tate ripped?

Of course, I still do three sets of DB curls a week. Sometimes.

60

[quote]goochadamg wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Why NOT train arms? Is it to attempt to prove something? Is it to feel a sense eliteness for not having been fooled by history?

I’d rather spend my energy doing squats, dead lifts, benching, dips, shoulder presses … etc.

I’d rather spend my energy repairing my muscles from damage done by the before mentioned lifts.

I feel that my biceps get a decent amount of stimulation when working my back.

I don’t care that much about my biceps. Big shoulders and triceps look cooler; ever seen those pictures of Dave Tate ripped?

Of course, I still do three sets of DB curls a week. Sometimes.

[/quote]

thts your opinion nd you will never achieve the full ptential from your biceps without doing specific bicep movements regulary. the bicep is a muscle just as the chest tricep and shoulders are, why not train it the same instead of neglect it, and what makes people think the biceps dont need as much stimulation as other muscles it beats me because theyre all muscles.