There’s no point in arguing it- it’s like peeing in a hurricane. The chick said squat, not “the basics”. SQUAT for ARMS she said!
Am I in the right forum?
[quote]USNS physique wrote:
There’s no point in arguing it- it’s like peeing in a hurricane. The chick said squat, not “the basics”. SQUAT for ARMS she said!
Am I in the right forum?[/quote]
don’t take things so literal, or maybe i’m a fool for not. on further note i hope she was implying tht he should use the basic lifts.
Work on getting your squat strong and also work on getting your biceps big. Also do deadlifts really work your arms? It’s not even an isometric hold is it because you’re not trying to bend your arms, am I right?
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
USNS physique wrote:
There’s no point in arguing it- it’s like peeing in a hurricane. The chick said squat, not “the basics”. SQUAT for ARMS she said!
Am I in the right forum?
don’t take things so literal, or maybe i’m a fool for not. on further note i hope she was implying tht he should use the basic lifts.[/quote]
Correct, how are you going to focus on your arms when you haven’t built an appreciable amount of mass anywhere else? Plus, the neuroendocrine response from the big basic exercises puts more meat on you than things like curls. Some of the biggest guys I’ve known don’t do any direct arm work.
I agree that you most likely won’t reach your full potential with regard to arm development if you avoid direct arm work all together. In addition, I can hardly think of a reason why an aesthetic-minded lifter should not include a few sets of some sort of biceps curl in his training, albeit not a ‘biceps day’.
That being said, I see little sense in debating the minutia of biceps exercises when the person in question can barely squat 80 percent of his bodyweight. From this perspective, the question regarding squat numbers was right on the money.
Without building overall strength levels and adding mass all over, you won’t be able to make significant progress with your arms. Where are all these skinny and weak people who have huge arms simply from curling whenever they are at the gym? Pointing this out will most likely help the OP more than anything else posted on this thread.
Common sense or ‘cozying up to this chick’? You decide.
[quote]IQ wrote:
Concentration curls can be a good finishing movement but I definitely wouldn’t base my entire session around them.
Given the numbers provided you could probably stand to fill out a bit and the big exercises are great for that. Don’t listen to the “don’t work you arms directly if you want big arms” crowd, I believe we are now capable of doing both compound AND isolation exercises.
One last thing, if you want arms that look good when they’re just hanging by your side, shoulders and triceps are the key, don’t neglect them.[/quote]
Indeed. As usual I’m with IQ. My routines are built on probably 80% big compound movements with smaller movements strategically placed to enhance the effectiveness of the compounds on the target groups.
[quote]USNS physique wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Concentration curls will help your biceps to an extent. Overdosing on just them won’t give you a bodybuilder’s arm but by time they have little effect on you, you will learn better how to lift weights.
To be honest I based on pictures i would do anything fitness diva told me to do over usssssswhatever anyday.
Desperate bloke aint had pussy since pussy had him. Thinks cozying up to this chick here will score him points. It’s a laugh.
Annnnnyway…
You can go by what this stupid sod says and squat all day and get arms like that chick…lol…thats totally possible. However, if you want big arms, do what I said- you’ll thakn me. Let this nothing of a guy squat for HIS arms.[/quote]
I suspect somebody is a little jealous… Do some squats I’ll think your cute too.
So then should I ditch my arms day, having 4 workout days (having three days a week rest, ummm), allowing my arms to build via the other exercises, like deadlifts, squats, and if so where are these so called ‘no direct bicep work’ workouts.
Tris for guys, curls for girls. 
If you like splitting up your routine, do a push, pull and leg day. If you have 4 days, do 2 leg days. Do your biceps at the end of your pull day and your triceps at the end of you push day.
[quote]2lb Monkey wrote:
So then should I ditch my arms day, having 4 workout days (having three days a week rest, ummm), allowing my arms to build via the other exercises, like deadlifts, squats, and if so where are these so called ‘no direct bicep work’ workouts.[/quote]
Do chins on wednesday. I know it calls for curls on friday, but, seriously, 3 sets a week is nothing.
Your arms will grow. My last workout of DB curls was 30 for 6, 35 for 6, 40 for 4. Not great, but not bad considering I’ve only done direct arm work … uh, maybe 15 times and have only been lifting for 9 months.
[quote]USNS physique wrote:
I have no idea what people are thinking when they say do legs when one asks about arms. I suggest you do ARMS if you want big ARMS. People mistake large-bone-structure-naturally-huge-arms with good arm development by guys who never do arms and stick to squat, bench, and rows.
This is not the case, as even so top guy in here has warned against curl-grip rows as being potentially dangerous. So where does that leave this guy? Wide grip rows all day long for arms, but no direct arm work? No…
We all know guys who never had a bar on their back EVER, and do arms and chest all the time and they have great arms with not ever doing one squat. How is this possible?
Easily- to have big arms without having natural huge size, you simply work the arms directly. At my best I was 185lbs with 18.5 inch arms and I really never did a squat. How did I accomplish this? Well, I curled…a lot. I could curl 135lbs on the olympic bar for a few reps when I was 18 at a bodyweight of around 190. I also did concentration curls- a lot of them. What was the result? Big arms.
Yeah, you can do pull ups and chin ups, but most guys can’t do many. So, instead of quitting in frustration because you fail at 3 on the pull up bar, hit the barbell and dumbbell curls, and alternate your grip from wide to close. Don’t neglect direct arm work unless you want substandard biceps.
Now, you’re going to hear a lot of people sucking the squat’s dick after this post, but take it from me when I tell you that it is NOT necessary to squat for you to have big arms. There are a lot of male models in the mgazines with great torsos, but legs that have obviously never really had a bar with over 135 lbs on it across their shoulders.
Not everybody wants 32 inch thighs, so for those guys who would like to be able to fit in jeans, definitely do barbell curls for arms and just do them like you would do any other muscle- you know the drill: 5x5, 8x3, etc. and remember to pick 2 exercises, let’s say body drag barbell curl and concentration curls or hammer curls. Train them no different than you would anything else and they will come up.
Who in their right mind would tell a guy who wanted big lats to squat? Makes no sense…want big legs? Squat. Big shoulders? Press. Big chest? Dips or bench press…Squat isn’t the catch-all answer to all questions.[/quote]
Yep.
The whole “compoundz for everything” is WAY overstated.
What’s funny about this stuff is…I never see it recommended by bodybuilders. It is always people on the periphery.
As far as “neuroendocrine” stimulation…that is more a function of volume/rep range than exercise choice. And most of the “basics/compounds only” limit both.
Makes about as much sense as telling someone to limit their workout to 45 minutes or less “to avoid cortisol”…then telling them to train to failure…
Adrenal stimulation trumps workout length for cortisol release every time.
2lb monkey I think you took everybodies post too literal. There not saying if you concentrate on biceps you will die. You don’t have to totally avoid a program because it has a bicep movement in it.
You should try to decide what your trying to do with your bodyfirst. If you just want a tad bigger biceps then curl to your heart desires. If you want HUGE guns fast then your giong to have to lift HUGE and eat accordingly.
Look up beginner or intermediate routines pick ANY ONE, do that routine for a while until you think you have an understanding of those exercises and their effects on your body. Then re-assess and go from there.
[quote]Defiant1 wrote:
USNS physique wrote:
I have no idea what people are thinking when they say do legs when one asks about arms. I suggest you do ARMS if you want big ARMS. People mistake large-bone-structure-naturally-huge-arms with good arm development by guys who never do arms and stick to squat, bench, and rows.
This is not the case, as even so top guy in here has warned against curl-grip rows as being potentially dangerous. So where does that leave this guy? Wide grip rows all day long for arms, but no direct arm work? No…
We all know guys who never had a bar on their back EVER, and do arms and chest all the time and they have great arms with not ever doing one squat. How is this possible?
Easily- to have big arms without having natural huge size, you simply work the arms directly. At my best I was 185lbs with 18.5 inch arms and I really never did a squat. How did I accomplish this? Well, I curled…a lot. I could curl 135lbs on the olympic bar for a few reps when I was 18 at a bodyweight of around 190. I also did concentration curls- a lot of them. What was the result? Big arms.
Yeah, you can do pull ups and chin ups, but most guys can’t do many. So, instead of quitting in frustration because you fail at 3 on the pull up bar, hit the barbell and dumbbell curls, and alternate your grip from wide to close. Don’t neglect direct arm work unless you want substandard biceps.
Now, you’re going to hear a lot of people sucking the squat’s dick after this post, but take it from me when I tell you that it is NOT necessary to squat for you to have big arms. There are a lot of male models in the mgazines with great torsos, but legs that have obviously never really had a bar with over 135 lbs on it across their shoulders.
Not everybody wants 32 inch thighs, so for those guys who would like to be able to fit in jeans, definitely do barbell curls for arms and just do them like you would do any other muscle- you know the drill: 5x5, 8x3, etc. and remember to pick 2 exercises, let’s say body drag barbell curl and concentration curls or hammer curls. Train them no different than you would anything else and they will come up.
Who in their right mind would tell a guy who wanted big lats to squat? Makes no sense…want big legs? Squat. Big shoulders? Press. Big chest? Dips or bench press…Squat isn’t the catch-all answer to all questions.
Yep.
The whole “compoundz for everything” is WAY overstated.
What’s funny about this stuff is…I never see it recommended by bodybuilders. It is always people on the periphery.
As far as “neuroendocrine” stimulation…that is more a function of volume/rep range than exercise choice. And most of the “basics/compounds only” limit both.
Makes about as much sense as telling someone to limit their workout to 45 minutes or less “to avoid cortisol”…then telling them to train to failure…
Adrenal stimulation trumps workout length for cortisol release every time.
[/quote]
A calculas teacher would expect you to know 2 + 2, they dont’ realize some people just don’t know. A bodybuilder who has advanced to the high stages of his body already did squats and deadlifts and needs to shape his guns.
Curling WILL make your biceps bigger. But just doing concentration curls for a year will not make your biceps, nearly as big as deadlifting and doing a few curls as an ACCESSORY exercise.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Defiant1 wrote:
USNS physique wrote:
I have no idea what people are thinking when they say do legs when one asks about arms. I suggest you do ARMS if you want big ARMS. People mistake large-bone-structure-naturally-huge-arms with good arm development by guys who never do arms and stick to squat, bench, and rows.
This is not the case, as even so top guy in here has warned against curl-grip rows as being potentially dangerous. So where does that leave this guy? Wide grip rows all day long for arms, but no direct arm work? No…
We all know guys who never had a bar on their back EVER, and do arms and chest all the time and they have great arms with not ever doing one squat. How is this possible?
Easily- to have big arms without having natural huge size, you simply work the arms directly. At my best I was 185lbs with 18.5 inch arms and I really never did a squat. How did I accomplish this? Well, I curled…a lot. I could curl 135lbs on the olympic bar for a few reps when I was 18 at a bodyweight of around 190. I also did concentration curls- a lot of them. What was the result? Big arms.
Yeah, you can do pull ups and chin ups, but most guys can’t do many. So, instead of quitting in frustration because you fail at 3 on the pull up bar, hit the barbell and dumbbell curls, and alternate your grip from wide to close. Don’t neglect direct arm work unless you want substandard biceps.
Now, you’re going to hear a lot of people sucking the squat’s dick after this post, but take it from me when I tell you that it is NOT necessary to squat for you to have big arms. There are a lot of male models in the mgazines with great torsos, but legs that have obviously never really had a bar with over 135 lbs on it across their shoulders.
Not everybody wants 32 inch thighs, so for those guys who would like to be able to fit in jeans, definitely do barbell curls for arms and just do them like you would do any other muscle- you know the drill: 5x5, 8x3, etc. and remember to pick 2 exercises, let’s say body drag barbell curl and concentration curls or hammer curls. Train them no different than you would anything else and they will come up.
Who in their right mind would tell a guy who wanted big lats to squat? Makes no sense…want big legs? Squat. Big shoulders? Press. Big chest? Dips or bench press…Squat isn’t the catch-all answer to all questions.
Yep.
The whole “compoundz for everything” is WAY overstated.
What’s funny about this stuff is…I never see it recommended by bodybuilders. It is always people on the periphery.
As far as “neuroendocrine” stimulation…that is more a function of volume/rep range than exercise choice. And most of the “basics/compounds only” limit both.
Makes about as much sense as telling someone to limit their workout to 45 minutes or less “to avoid cortisol”…then telling them to train to failure…
Adrenal stimulation trumps workout length for cortisol release every time.
A calculas teacher would expect you to know 2 + 2, they dont’ realize some people just don’t know. A bodybuilder who has advanced to the high stages of his body already did squats and deadlifts and needs to shape his guns.
Curling WILL make your biceps bigger. But just doing concentration curls for a year will not make your biceps, nearly as big as deadlifting and doing a few curls as an ACCESSORY exercise.
[/quote]
Your hypothetical bodybuilder, if he trained as a bodybuilder also did lots of direct arm training from day 1.
To say his arm growth is the result PRIMARILY of his squats and deadlifts is ex post facto reasoning. Where is the causality?
There are plenty of guys with big arms that don’t squat and deadlift. Any cursory glance in a an average gym will confirm this.
The idea of doing deadlifting and squats plus a few curls making ones arms bigger than doing concentration curls only is purely speculation. What is the logic behind it?
I’m not advocating doing only concentration curls-simply agreeing that the idea of telling someone to squat as go-to advice for bicep building is bad advice.
[quote]USNS physique wrote:
Who in their right mind would tell a guy who wanted big lats to squat? Makes no sense…want big legs? Squat. Big shoulders? Press. Big chest? Dips or bench press…Squat isn’t the catch-all answer to all questions.[/quote]
Have you ever done anything close to heavy squats or any kind? Heavy Back/Front/Hack Squats? I don’t know about you guys, but my Lats are fried from heavy Front Squats, my shoulders are fried from back squats, and I get arm pumps from Hack Squats, I thought I’d like to share.
[quote]Defiant1 wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Defiant1 wrote:
USNS physique wrote:
I have no idea what people are thinking when they say do legs when one asks about arms. I suggest you do ARMS if you want big ARMS. People mistake large-bone-structure-naturally-huge-arms with good arm development by guys who never do arms and stick to squat, bench, and rows.
This is not the case, as even so top guy in here has warned against curl-grip rows as being potentially dangerous. So where does that leave this guy? Wide grip rows all day long for arms, but no direct arm work? No…
We all know guys who never had a bar on their back EVER, and do arms and chest all the time and they have great arms with not ever doing one squat. How is this possible?
Easily- to have big arms without having natural huge size, you simply work the arms directly. At my best I was 185lbs with 18.5 inch arms and I really never did a squat. How did I accomplish this? Well, I curled…a lot. I could curl 135lbs on the olympic bar for a few reps when I was 18 at a bodyweight of around 190. I also did concentration curls- a lot of them. What was the result? Big arms.
Yeah, you can do pull ups and chin ups, but most guys can’t do many. So, instead of quitting in frustration because you fail at 3 on the pull up bar, hit the barbell and dumbbell curls, and alternate your grip from wide to close. Don’t neglect direct arm work unless you want substandard biceps.
Now, you’re going to hear a lot of people sucking the squat’s dick after this post, but take it from me when I tell you that it is NOT necessary to squat for you to have big arms. There are a lot of male models in the mgazines with great torsos, but legs that have obviously never really had a bar with over 135 lbs on it across their shoulders.
Not everybody wants 32 inch thighs, so for those guys who would like to be able to fit in jeans, definitely do barbell curls for arms and just do them like you would do any other muscle- you know the drill: 5x5, 8x3, etc. and remember to pick 2 exercises, let’s say body drag barbell curl and concentration curls or hammer curls. Train them no different than you would anything else and they will come up.
Who in their right mind would tell a guy who wanted big lats to squat? Makes no sense…want big legs? Squat. Big shoulders? Press. Big chest? Dips or bench press…Squat isn’t the catch-all answer to all questions.
Yep.
The whole “compoundz for everything” is WAY overstated.
What’s funny about this stuff is…I never see it recommended by bodybuilders. It is always people on the periphery.
As far as “neuroendocrine” stimulation…that is more a function of volume/rep range than exercise choice. And most of the “basics/compounds only” limit both.
Makes about as much sense as telling someone to limit their workout to 45 minutes or less “to avoid cortisol”…then telling them to train to failure…
Adrenal stimulation trumps workout length for cortisol release every time.
A calculas teacher would expect you to know 2 + 2, they dont’ realize some people just don’t know. A bodybuilder who has advanced to the high stages of his body already did squats and deadlifts and needs to shape his guns.
Curling WILL make your biceps bigger. But just doing concentration curls for a year will not make your biceps, nearly as big as deadlifting and doing a few curls as an ACCESSORY exercise.
Your hypothetical bodybuilder, if he trained as a bodybuilder also did lots of direct arm training from day 1.
To say his arm growth is the result PRIMARILY of his squats and deadlifts is ex post facto reasoning. Where is the causality?
There are plenty of guys with big arms that don’t squat and deadlift. Any cursory glance in a an average gym will confirm this.
The idea of doing deadlifting and squats plus a few curls making ones arms bigger than doing concentration curls only is purely speculation. What is the logic behind it?
I’m not advocating doing only concentration curls-simply agreeing that the idea of telling someone to squat as go-to advice for bicep building is bad advice.
[/quote]
- My bodybuilder is a lot less hypothetical then yours. Most bodybuilders do not speciallize in arm training from day one and the ones that do, learn better. Look in any magazine or bodybuilders website at their weekly routine and you will not see very few ARM days. Then the ones that do will have one period of a few weeks out of 2 years when they are doing this.
Funny they have an article for the OP. You can see there is only one curl exercise done in 4 days. A How-To Guide To Build Huge Biceps!
2)If in your opinion the average gym has guys with big arms then we really shouldn’t have this discussion. Even more so if these guys with these big guns don’t dedicate one day to the arms week in and week out.
3)Either way you are missing the point of what people are emphasizing. They are saying squat, deadlift to gain size period. Size as in Mass on your body. You just don’t see people with big guns and NOTHING else, because your guns are only going to get so big if you are tiny.
You can look at many of the small arm wrestlers who have GREAT overall arm strength, yet their arms just don’t look as big as the big muscular guys who developed their entire body. You just can’t put a V-8 in a kia Rio.
OK, enough people have brought up that squats and deads are awesome. I agree.
Let’s say you do want to really focus on your arms. There’s still better things to do than lots of concentration curls.
How about the push press? Or chin ups?
Both of these will work your arms but also some other important muscles and those neat little stabiliser muscles that are quite handy for real life. Plus your body will just not allow one body part to outpace others too much (I can’t remember where I read it, but somewhere on this site). We didn’t evolve to perform isolation movements.
Especially as a beginner, I think it’s important to get strong first and then worry about getting big or lean or really ****ing strong (whatever you decide).
Strength is the platform that success is built on.
[quote]
- My bodybuilder is a lot less hypothetical then yours. Most bodybuilders do not speciallize in arm training from day one and the ones that do, learn better. Look in any magazine or bodybuilders website at their weekly routine and you will not see very few ARM days. Then the ones that do will have one period of a few weeks out of 2 years when they are doing this. [/quote]
I’m not sure where this is coming from.
Are you saying you WILL see arm days? Or, you will NOT see arm days? You said “not see very few”, meaning you will see a lot? I don’t think that is what you meant, but I can assure you that bodybuilders train arms a lot, from the beginning, to the most advanced.
[quote]
Funny they have an article for the OP. You can see there is only one curl exercise done in 4 days. A How-To Guide To Build Huge Biceps! [/quote]
What’s even funnier, is that they have a picture of Bob Chic as “evidence”.
If you think he trains the way that is suggested, ask him on bb.com. He is a moderator.
Edit: FYI, in the program you linked, there are curls done on 2 of the 4 days, and a tricep exercise done on two of the four days. Arms are trained everyday.
It also includes quotes such as: " I think many weight trainees do not fully grasp the concept of isolating and actually training a muscle…and “Every pro bodybuilder will put their money on two of the simplest exercises for building huge biceps - barbell curls and dumbbell curls. According to the pros, these two exercises have built more huge guns than any other exercise in the world.”
not “squats and deads”.
[quote]
2)If in your opinion the average gym has guys with big arms then we really shouldn’t have this discussion. Even more so if these guys with these big guns don’t dedicate one day to the arms week in and week out. [/quote]
I said there are plenty of guys with big arms and no legs.
[quote]
3)Either way you are missing the point of what people are emphasizing. They are saying squat, deadlift to gain size period. Size as in Mass on your body. You just don’t see people with big guns and NOTHING else, because your guns are only going to get so big if you are tiny. [/quote]
I’m not missing the point. The question was about concentration curls as the only bicep exercise, vs bb curls or what have you. Who is missing the point?
Having COMPETED in arm wrestling, I can assure that heavyweight arm wrestlers have big arms, and disproportionately small legs, in general. Arm wrestling is not really about arm strength anyway (it is rotator cuff strength…the arm flexors prevent loss, in an isometric manner …they don’t win matches for you).
“Small” powerlifters ALSO have small arms. Smaller than the same weight of arm wrestler I would venture…despite doing squats and deads.
If someone wants to gain overall mass, then advising to do basic full body workouts as a beginner is great.
But when someone asks a specific question about bicep training, advising them to do squats and deadlifts is nonsense IMO.
[quote]kiwinomad wrote:
OK, enough people have brought up that squats and deads are awesome. I agree.
Let’s say you do want to really focus on your arms. There’s still better things to do than lots of concentration curls.
How about the push press? Or chin ups?
Both of these will work your arms but also some other important muscles and those neat little stabiliser muscles that are quite handy for real life. Plus your body will just not allow one body part to outpace others too much (I can’t remember where I read it, but somewhere on this site). We didn’t evolve to perform isolation movements.
Especially as a beginner, I think it’s important to get strong first and then worry about getting big or lean or really ****ing strong (whatever you decide).
Strength is the platform that success is built on.
[/quote]
QFT, and try doing Jerks sometime, your biceps will cry.