Official Olympia 09 Thread

Training Bodybuilding
301

[quote]elusive wrote:
This is bodybuilding and you can’t reward the guy with great proportions even if he looks 20-30lbs lighter. [/quote]

LOL What?

Yeah bodybuilding has nothing to do with proportions. That’s why Ruhl wins everything. Because he looks 20-30lbs heavier than everyone else.

I have been reading through this thread and I do not understand why I am the only one who felt Kai deserved the #1 spot.

I truly felt he brought the most complete package even though his conditioning wasn’t perfect, and it seems like Kai was counted out simply because his conditioning wasn’t as good as it was at the arnold, even though he has made improvements in many other areas. I can understand Jay or maybe even Dex taking a spot above Kai, but Branch Warren? No.

302

[quote]mr popular wrote:
elusive wrote:
This is bodybuilding and you can’t reward the guy with great proportions even if he looks 20-30lbs lighter.

LOL What?

Yeah bodybuilding has nothing to do with proportions. That’s why Ruhl wins everything. Because he looks 20-30lbs heavier than everyone else.

I have been reading through this thread and I do not understand why I am the only one who felt Kai deserved the #1 spot.

I truly felt he brought the most complete package even though his conditioning wasn’t perfect, and it seems like Kai was counted out simply because his conditioning wasn’t as good as it was at the arnold, even though he has made improvements in many other areas. I can understand Jay or maybe even Dex taking a spot above Kai, but Branch Warren? No.[/quote]

I agree on the Branch Warren, but Jay looked just more impressive; better conditioning and wider.

303

[quote]MEYMZ wrote:
ndiddy85 wrote:
JJ: 533 (or something like that) bench and BW:563 bench, That’s all I stayed for, but I guess in the DL JJ pulled 800+ and BW only pulled 650 or so.

Ben even attempted 600 and almost got it, props to him. There was also Efferding, really hardcore stuff! This is to be one of the thousand reminders for the guys who say that bb’s are weak.[/quote]

Whites attempt at 600 was close. This little show goes to show how strong BB’ers are. If you saw the comp, JJ didn’t even grip the bar wide, that bar had to travel a hell of a long distance

304

[quote]ndiddy85 wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
ndiddy85 wrote:
JJ: 533 (or something like that) bench and BW:563 bench, That’s all I stayed for, but I guess in the DL JJ pulled 800+ and BW only pulled 650 or so.

Ben even attempted 600 and almost got it, props to him. There was also Efferding, really hardcore stuff! This is to be one of the thousand reminders for the guys who say that bb’s are weak.

Whites attempt at 600 was close. This little show goes to show how strong BB’ers are. If you saw the comp, JJ didn’t even grip the bar wide, that bar had to travel a hell of a long distance[/quote]

yeah, nonetheless I think that White’s a stronger bencher indeed.

Johnnie KILLED him on the DL.

305

[quote]mr popular wrote:
elusive wrote:
This is bodybuilding and you can’t reward the guy with great proportions even if he looks 20-30lbs lighter.

LOL What?

Yeah bodybuilding has nothing to do with proportions. That’s why Ruhl wins everything. Because he looks 20-30lbs heavier than everyone else.

I have been reading through this thread and I do not understand why I am the only one who felt Kai deserved the #1 spot.

I truly felt he brought the most complete package even though his conditioning wasn’t perfect, and it seems like Kai was counted out simply because his conditioning wasn’t as good as it was at the arnold, even though he has made improvements in many other areas. I can understand Jay or maybe even Dex taking a spot above Kai, but Branch Warren? No.[/quote]

i think kia seemed to conceed, his posing round wasn’t a wow comparatively to what he usually does. he’s kind of set the bar and he’s going to need to do a backflip or something. he hardened up yesterday during the call outs at the end of those thought he looked the best IMO.

it was kai’s show, and he was bigger, the size looks good and fits him, people wanted the crazy cross feather in his quads, and middle inner lats, i agree that kai has what others do not but tonight he was a bit off his mark.

306

Kai 1st ???

Ah now come on this Kai love in that is going on is a bit crazy.

He was nowhere near conditioned as Arnold.

His posing is extremely hit or miss, apparently he had one “fruity” and one “normal” one thank god he went normal except for the bouncing or whatever that was.

Muscle density won this competition, pure and simple, that is where Kai got screwed.

Heath is the guy i feel for, getting ill and sick, more mass won’t really suit him… if we are heading back to mass monsters, then Heath is gonna be in trouble.

Kai is the future of Mr. 0 it seems, mass monsters are back. HELL YA

307

JJ beat BW’s ass on the deadlift. BW beat him on the Bench. I believe Rhino will beat JJ’s ass next year.

308

My point is that someone with great proportions but 230lbs, shouldn’t beat someone with good proportions and 30lbs heavier. Especially if their conditioning was the same or the heavier guy had better conditioning (Branch).

309

[quote]MEYMZ wrote:
ndiddy85 wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
ndiddy85 wrote:
JJ: 533 (or something like that) bench and BW:563 bench, That’s all I stayed for, but I guess in the DL JJ pulled 800+ and BW only pulled 650 or so.

Ben even attempted 600 and almost got it, props to him. There was also Efferding, really hardcore stuff! This is to be one of the thousand reminders for the guys who say that bb’s are weak.

Whites attempt at 600 was close. This little show goes to show how strong BB’ers are. If you saw the comp, JJ didn’t even grip the bar wide, that bar had to travel a hell of a long distance

yeah, nonetheless I think that White’s a stronger bencher indeed.

Johnnie KILLED him on the DL.[/quote]

And then Stan killed them both setting a new raw 275lb record at a sanctioned PL meet

310

[quote]MEYMZ wrote:
ndiddy85 wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
ndiddy85 wrote:
JJ: 533 (or something like that) bench and BW:563 bench, That’s all I stayed for, but I guess in the DL JJ pulled 800+ and BW only pulled 650 or so.

Ben even attempted 600 and almost got it, props to him. There was also Efferding, really hardcore stuff! This is to be one of the thousand reminders for the guys who say that bb’s are weak.

Whites attempt at 600 was close. This little show goes to show how strong BB’ers are. If you saw the comp, JJ didn’t even grip the bar wide, that bar had to travel a hell of a long distance

yeah, nonetheless I think that White’s a stronger bencher indeed.

Johnnie KILLED him on the DL.[/quote]

Indeed, White is a better bench, I was trying to point out these guys were not using typical power lifting techniques to get some extra pounds out of their lifts.

311

johnnie jackson vs ben white vid, johnnies 815 deadlift went up easssssy

312

[quote]elusive wrote:
My point is that someone with great proportions but 230lbs, shouldn’t beat someone with good proportions and 30lbs heavier. Especially if their conditioning was the same or the heavier guy had better conditioning (Branch).[/quote]

Dorian Yates?

313

[quote]elusive wrote:
My point is that someone with great proportions but 230lbs, shouldn’t beat someone with good proportions and 30lbs heavier. Especially if their conditioning was the same or the heavier guy had better conditioning (Branch).[/quote]

The way I see it is that bodybuilding is a triangle: one side is size, one side is shape, and one side is conditioning/density/separation.

Every year the criteria for the triangle changes…one year the long side of the triangle is for size, the next shape, etc. What most people really want is an equilateral triangle…and I think the equilateral triangle was reached with Coleman in 2001-2003. Kai is close to that when he is ON, but he wasn’t this time.

Lacking anyone who meets the equilateral triangle, judgement must be made on a whole bunch of scalene triangles (no equal sides).

314

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

The way I see it is that bodybuilding is a triangle: one side is size, one side is shape, and one side is conditioning/density/separation.

Every year the criteria for the triangle changes…one year the long side of the triangle is for size, the next shape, etc. What most people really want is an equilateral triangle…and I think the equilateral triangle was reached with Coleman in 2001-2003. Kai is close to that when he is ON, but he wasn’t this time.

Lacking anyone who meets the equilateral triangle, judgement must be made on a whole bunch of scalene triangles (no equal sides).
[/quote]

Well if Kai’s next year conditioning is right on (he was close), his posing routine what is to be expected from him and his back a little bit wider (his insertions are the best in the sport but Cutler looked wider), then everyone should be afraid of him.

315

Definitely an interesting O this year, I thought Jay deserved it based on what I saw. The competition is SO damn close when you get to the top 5 that it was just insane. Congrats to everyone for acheiving that status.

I never thought Jay was Mr O material, but he really blew me away this weekend, phenomenal physique. Branch was DRY to the bone, and it was very cool/interesting that they gave him 2nd for that (lets not forget he is also an amazing BBer… He just doesnt have the prettiest physique in the game.)

Dexter might be getting penalized for always looking the same, even if “the same” is flawless. Surprise finish for him to say the least.

Heath will have his day, no doubt about it. Still a young guy in the sport. I predict a win in under 3 years time.

Kai’s posing routines might be hurting him, he should just stick to the basics and show off that sick muscularity and crazy conditioning. Perhaps doing the Arnold and the O was not the best idea. Might just want to pick one of them and try to really nail it.

One of the best O’s in recent memory since it wasnt just a 2-man show with also-rans in the game.

316

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
elusive wrote:
My point is that someone with great proportions but 230lbs, shouldn’t beat someone with good proportions and 30lbs heavier. Especially if their conditioning was the same or the heavier guy had better conditioning (Branch).

The way I see it is that bodybuilding is a triangle: one side is size, one side is shape, and one side is conditioning/density/separation.

Every year the criteria for the triangle changes…one year the long side of the triangle is for size, the next shape, etc. What most people really want is an equilateral triangle…and I think the equilateral triangle was reached with Coleman in 2001-2003. Kai is close to that when he is ON, but he wasn’t this time.

Lacking anyone who meets the equilateral triangle, judgement must be made on a whole bunch of scalene triangles (no equal sides).
[/quote]

um no. They win on those 3 things overall, not one particular criteria. Maybe it was the case in years past but I think they are over that stage. When I saw Branch do the side ab/oblique shot I was wowed. Dexter wasn’t even that impressive, he looked better in the prejudging and still I think Jay had the edge. Dex is consistent and slid in last year. Branch brought up his weak points and looked great compared to years past.

I don’t think Dex was ever going to win this one. If Kai and Phil came in better, then I would not be surprised if they both beat him also.

317

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
300andabove wrote:
Majin wrote:
Just saw the pix on Palumbo’s site.

Thoughts:

Dex
Kai
Martinez
Warren
Jay or Freeman

As many have said watch the webcasts on “that site” really pictures do NO justice.

If your rating Jay 5th then i dunno lol and Martinez 3rd ?? You sure it was this years Olympia ?

There is something about actually seeing the individual move versus a static picture that reveals alot. When you actually see the sheer graininess of Warren’s musculature when he is simply walking, and seeing the tissues roll up into granite, THAT is something that is missing in static pictures.

When you see Jay stomp and then flex his thigh and crunch up his midsection in motion, the cuts and striations leap up at you in a way the static picture just can’t.

When you see all the competitors side by side moving, you get to actually see the physical depth of their mass and are able to compare competitor to competitor as they go through motion and as they flex and relax…flex and relax.

We fans sometimes don’t keep this in mind when we call bollocks to the judges decisions…but they are there front and center, closer to and with a better view of the actual physique in front of them. Politics are a part of life unfortunately, but I’m one to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time. [/quote]

I think that’s what it is, you’re right. The vids are very different.

318

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
Observation: during the Coleman years, size was the main criteria for winning. Cutler took over and continued that reign. I seriously thought the reign of size for the sake of size was over with Dex’s win last year…that the rewards were now for the ideal lines and fantastic shape.

Well, this year a new standard was rewarded: density.

I’ll take Kai as an example. The man is enormous…the man has the best back poses of anyone competing today (well…maybe Stubbs…but that poor guy has no legs due to so many knee surgeries)…and he has good separation. But when you compare his density against Branch…or dare I say it…Jay…he looks soft.

Same thing with Phil this year…though he looked better today than yesterday…not necessarily in cuts, but he really filled out while maintaining the separation he had yesterday.

This doesn’t explain what happened to Dex though. Dex was dense as well. He was separated and cut…and he had the shape thing over both Jay and Branch.

Dex did indeed get screwed.

I expect him to retire after this. [/quote]

I also thought Bob Chicerillo dissed him when congratulating Jay afterward, telling Jay “You’ve always been the champion man. Dexter may have had the title, but you were always the champ.” What was that all about?!

319

[quote]hardgnr wrote:
buffd_samurai wrote:
elusive wrote:
My point is that someone with great proportions but 230lbs, shouldn’t beat someone with good proportions and 30lbs heavier. Especially if their conditioning was the same or the heavier guy had better conditioning (Branch).

The way I see it is that bodybuilding is a triangle: one side is size, one side is shape, and one side is conditioning/density/separation.

Every year the criteria for the triangle changes…one year the long side of the triangle is for size, the next shape, etc. What most people really want is an equilateral triangle…and I think the equilateral triangle was reached with Coleman in 2001-2003. Kai is close to that when he is ON, but he wasn’t this time.

Lacking anyone who meets the equilateral triangle, judgement must be made on a whole bunch of scalene triangles (no equal sides).
[/quote]

Um…that’s what I meant by the equilateral triangle. I probably didn’t explain my thoughts very well…I’ve been in a very “reflective” moment following this Olympia…lots of interesting topics will come out of this one; at the top will be the discussions of shape versus condition when it used to be sheer mass versus shape.

Not sure what you meant here. In no way can one confidently say Branch has the “shape” side of the triangle balanced with the mass and condition side. I would say Branch is definitely a scalene triangle…the mass and condition sides are way longer than the shape side.

So if I understand you right, you would judge a contest based mostly on improvement versus great combo of mass, shape, and condition even if it was the same as the year before. I disagree with you…especially your comment regarding Dex slid. What? He was just as big as last year but more conditioned.
It is obvious we both value very different things in a physique, because when Dexter poses, he wows me.

[quote]
I don’t think Dex was ever going to win this one. If Kai and Phil came in better, then I would not be surprised if they both beat him also.[/quote]
You may be right…but these 3 are what I would consider the closest thing we have today to possible equilateral triangles provided Kai and Phil attain the condition they are known to be able to obtain but still maintain the mass they have now. I agree with the poster who indicated when all things are equal…mass/shape/condition…for one’s height, the bigger ones should win. In this case, both Phil and Kai are larger than Dex, and therefore they should beat Dex provided they are in the same condition and because they have that same element of shape.

Just me 2 cents.

320

[quote]davidcox1 wrote:
I also thought Bob Chicerillo dissed him when congratulating Jay afterward, telling Jay “You’ve always been the champion man. Dexter may have had the title, but you were always the champ.” What was that all about?!
[/quote]

I hate to say it, but Dexter has “attitude” that does not reflect well with the general public. A very small minority of fans and people like “attitude”, but the majority don’t like it.

Jay is always the gentleman and acts in a way acceptable to the public. Right or wrong, that makes him more marketable and it fulfills the idealized perception of what champions “should be”…i.e. a media darling that is a good “amabassador” to the sport.

Some people think Dex acts too much like a thug. He’s “too cool” for everyone it seems. The marketing departments within bodybuilding don’t like this.

Still Bob dissed him by saying that, I agree…but I didn’t think it was intentional. Bob was just trying to find a way to praise Jay, and he let his mouth run without going through a mental filter.