I once read in a magazine that body builders don’t do much oblique work because it would make them look bulky and wide, or fat.
It does make some sense that you get wider, since the obliques are on the side, but is this really such a big issue?
It doesn’t make you look fat or bulky, but if your waist to shoulder ratio is off, it can make you look “blocky”–a square rather than a “v”. Unless you are built like Dave Palumbo here, its not a big issue. As you can see, even a few inches less (from smaller obliques) would help a figure like Dave’s.
Here’s Sandow looking “fat” for reference.
[quote]davidcox1 wrote:
It doesn’t make you look fat or bulky, but if your waist to shoulder ratio is off, it can make you look “blocky”–a square rather than a “v”. Unless you are built like Dave Palumbo here, its not a big issue. As you can see, even a few inches less (from smaller obliques) would help a figure like Dave’s.[/quote]
True, but some oblique work isn’t the only reason he looks like that. Not that this is what you were implying, but I think it’s safe to say that most people don’t have to worry about that level of blockiness.
In fact, I’ve just googled a pic of Sandow and a pic of Arnold and as far as oblique development they’re not miles apart. Arnold simply has a lot more lat width (and lower attachments) and uses the vacuum pose to create the illusion of a smaller waist. It doesn’t hurt that he’s a damn sight bigger all over.
You’d need huge obliques before this became a real issue, and unless you happen to be a gigantic genetic freak moving scary amounts of weight whilst taking even scarier doses of hormones and force feeding yourself in an effort to get onto stage at over 300lbs, you’ll probably be OK.
[quote]The other Rob wrote:
Here’s Sandow looking “fat” for reference.
[quote]davidcox1 wrote:
It doesn’t make you look fat or bulky, but if your waist to shoulder ratio is off, it can make you look “blocky”–a square rather than a “v”. Unless you are built like Dave Palumbo here, its not a big issue. As you can see, even a few inches less (from smaller obliques) would help a figure like Dave’s.[/quote]
True, but some oblique work isn’t the only reason he looks like that. Not that this is what you were implying, but I think it’s safe to say that most people don’t have to worry about that level of blockiness.
In fact, I’ve just googled a pic of Sandow and a pic of Arnold and as far as oblique development they’re not miles apart. Arnold simply has a lot more lat width (and lower attachments) and uses the vacuum pose to create the illusion of a smaller waist. It doesn’t hurt that he’s a damn sight bigger all over.
You’d need huge obliques before this became a real issue, and unless you happen to be a gigantic genetic freak moving scary amounts of weight whilst taking even scarier doses of hormones and force feeding yourself in an effort to get onto stage at over 300lbs, you’ll probably be OK.[/quote]
Good points. I could see why someone would see Sandow’s obliques as being “fat.” If he were trying to be more proportional in his development, he would want to avoid developing his obliques and concentrate on upper body mass. Could this photo of Sandow be what Dave Palumbo would have looked like had he been around in that period?
Good points indeed. Cleared up some shit for me here. Glad I asked.
[quote]The other Rob wrote:
Here’s Sandow looking “fat” for reference.
[/quote]
When compared to Dave, this guy’s barely “fat”.
I don’t think it’s an issue of being ‘fat’,but moreso of trying to achieve a much more dramatic v-taper to add to the overall illusion of being bigger up top. Obviously certain exercises will cause muscle growth in the oblique area more than others, but unless you are genetically programed to have a real tiny waist, it’s not going to happen just because of how you train. You read so many interviews with pro BBers who have small waists and always talk about how they train to keep it that way. Sure, I believe that full squats and full deads will require more core stability and therefore a thicker overall abdominal area to perform with heavy weights, but again, I really do think it’s at least 90-95% genetically determined.
S
Vacuum pose? Body building is real technical, isn’t it?
You know more about diet than anybody else, you find the best ways to train and the most interesting, varied and fun work outs, AND you have some technique in it(bodybuilding) as well.
You’re not just simply meat heads, hmm.
I think that Sandow trained his obliques directly, because that was part of the classical Greek ideal. If you Google image search for Greek statues, you will see what I’m talking about. Dave Palumbo’s thick waist is probably more to do with using insulin/IGF-1/HGH.
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
I think that Sandow trained his obliques directly, because that was part of the classical Greek ideal. If you Google image search for Greek statues, you will see what I’m talking about. Dave Palumbo’s thick waist is probably more to do with using insulin/IGF-1/HGH.[/quote]
The size of your waist at single digit levels of body fat is not a factor of what substances you have used, but the circumference of your ilium–a genetic factor. The size of your gut may well be affected by those things, but they would be more visible in a side view, and they don’t have anything to do with your obliques. The size of your internal organs is the primary factor for that pregnant look. I agree Dave Palumbo had that problem too, but I think it is a separate and distinct problem from the issue about the obliques.
not really worth the time spent worrying about unless you are going to step on stage and are going to be competitive
[quote]challer1 wrote:
not really worth the time spent worrying about unless you are going to step on stage and are going to be competitive[/quote]
That’s true. I’m thinking about it, maybe in 2-3 years. Hehe!
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
I think that Sandow trained his obliques directly, because that was part of the classical Greek ideal. If you Google image search for Greek statues, you will see what I’m talking about. Dave Palumbo’s thick waist is probably more to do with using insulin/IGF-1/HGH.[/quote]
Yes, i see. Here’s a picture.
[quote]davidcox1 wrote:
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
I think that Sandow trained his obliques directly, because that was part of the classical Greek ideal. If you Google image search for Greek statues, you will see what I’m talking about. Dave Palumbo’s thick waist is probably more to do with using insulin/IGF-1/HGH.[/quote]
The size of your waist at single digit levels of body fat is not a factor of what substances you have used, but the circumference of your ilium–a genetic factor. The size of your gut may well be affected by those things, but they would be more visible in a side view, and they don’t have anything to do with your obliques. The size of your internal organs is the primary factor for that pregnant look. I agree Dave Palumbo had that problem too, but I think it is a separate and distinct problem from the issue about the obliques.[/quote]
Good explanation of the front and side view differences.
Images of Palumbo without clothes on and a bag over his face should be banned from the internet. That is an ugly man.
To add. OP don’t worry about this now. Train as you have been as long as it works for you. After you diet down for your first show worry about your obliques. The midsection changes significantly when someone is in contest shape. You may be someone that carries fat in the oblique area that won’t be an issue when youre in contest shape but will make you look blocky while bulking.
Good, since I’m a thrower, I need good obliques. I’m worried, though, if I ever would want to compete in BB’ing.
Thanks!
MMA/Judo thrower.
I think, if you’re a woman, built obliques combined with a little bit of fat can lead to an exaggerated appearance of fatness (see Britney Spears during various phases). I’m just hoping someone will post pics of Britney instead of Dave Palumbo.
This is one of my biggest peeves at the gym- watching trainers take girls and do weighted oblique and ab work. It ruins a good figure. Even true with guys. You get your ab work from squats and deads. Spend the time eating right and on the tread. I got a full six with barely doing a situp last year. Just a few hanging leg lifts towards the end to bring them out. I don’t even waste my time if I’m over 8%.
Now, if you have core issues maybe resulting in back problems or you need a strong core for a sport- that’s a different story. Everyone has abs - eat right and you will see them.
ps… anyone know how I got to be level 4 with 8 posts? The posts weren’t anything ground breaking (as you can see above) does it have to do with how much product I’ve bought over the years- or cuz I lurked and learned for 7 years? Just curious.