Need to Lose Fat to Reduce Sleep Apnea

Bigger Stronger Leaner Jim Wendler 5/3/1 Coaching
1

Jim - I know in your books you say that you need to eat for 5/3/1 to succeed. (At least that’s what I think you say.) Unfortunately, I need to lose some fat, not because I’m a “cutting queen,” but because my sleep doc says that if I lose some fat, then my sleep apnea will be reduced.

I’m a bit skeptical, but I do want to give the doc’s rec a try. I cannot wear the CPAP machine. I’d rather drop 15-20 pounds than have surgery.

Of course, following my doc’s rec means cutting calories and upping my conditioning, because that’s what works for me.

I’d like to get your thoughts on what a better approach would be for staying with 5/3/1, assuming with all the people you’ve worked with you’ve come across this type of situation.

Approach #1 - I test my maxes and perhaps take 85% or 80% rather than 90%, to account for a loss of strength? That was my thinking, and so long as I’m hitting PRs on the top sets, I’ll still be progressing.

Approach #2 - Don’t reset maxes, but just get the required reps on each exercise. My thinking is that I can still bang out sets of 5, 3 and 1 even with less energy, but going crazy on the last sets might, well, suck.

Currently I’m doing the Beyond program here on TNation, but I have all the 5/3/1 books if there is something that immediately comes to mind that you think would be better.

EDIT - I also have a very demanding job, so it’s not as simple as “going to the gym more and work harder.” I already go as much as I can.

Appreciate the time, Jim.

2

To lose fat just eat less.

Use a calculator and use a 10% deficit. Simple.

3

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
To lose fat just eat less.

Use a calculator and use a 10% deficit. Simple.[/quote]

That alone won’t work for me. And that doesn’t address how best to tailor 5/3/1 to someone on a reduced calorie diet. So, thanks for nothing.

4

[quote]Leechum wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
To lose fat just eat less.

Use a calculator and use a 10% deficit. Simple.[/quote]

That alone won’t work for me. And that doesn’t address how best to tailor 5/3/1 to someone on a reduced calorie diet. So, thanks for nothing.[/quote]

That is the only way to lose fat, you eat less than you burn off. If that won’t work nothing will.

5

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Diet - it’s what people do who don’t work hard enough.

I just made that up and am laughing my ass off because the Internet Inch Club will get all mad. Poking fun at diet and Xfit and all that stuff is very amusing. I liken it to poking a rabid bear. The bear gets all riled up and starts to get up/run at you but then realizes both of his legs are broken. The bear then stumbles and falls because he has nothing to stand on.

I’m particularly proud of that metaphor.

[/quote]

6

Introduce yourself to the Prowler. Enjoy.

7

There are two ways to go about this. The smart play is probably to cut your lifting back to 2x/week, back the training max down to 85%, and keep the volume down. Can’t ride two horses with one ass; if your calories are down it’s hard to get much stronger unless you’ve never lifted before. You’d condition however you wanted, walking, pushing the prowler, your car, whatever.

The other way probably isn’t smart at all, but it’s what I did after taking some time away from training and it worked unbelievably well, and that’s bombing yourself back to the stone age with volume. BBB on everything, pushing for PRs on everything, and just getting work done. I ate what I felt I needed to recover, didn’t eat shit I knew I shouldn’t, and drank as much bourbon as I wanted. The body composition changes were pretty ludicrous in a relatively short period of time, and I wasn’t fat or anything to begin with.

I’m sure smarter men than I would dissuade you on the second option, but it worked for me so I can’t leave it in the lurch.

8

[quote]Ramo wrote:
There are two ways to go about this. The smart play is probably to cut your lifting back to 2x/week, back the training max down to 85%, and keep the volume down. Can’t ride two horses with one ass; if your calories are down it’s hard to get much stronger unless you’ve never lifted before. You’d condition however you wanted, walking, pushing the prowler, your car, whatever.

The other way probably isn’t smart at all, but it’s what I did after taking some time away from training and it worked unbelievably well, and that’s bombing yourself back to the stone age with volume. BBB on everything, pushing for PRs on everything, and just getting work done. I ate what I felt I needed to recover, didn’t eat shit I knew I shouldn’t, and drank as much bourbon as I wanted. The body composition changes were pretty ludicrous in a relatively short period of time, and I wasn’t fat or anything to begin with.

I’m sure smarter men than I would dissuade you on the second option, but it worked for my so I can’t leave it in the lurch.[/quote]

Like the idea, especially the bourbon (native Kentuckian here). Though one difference between you and I is that I am fat, so reduced calorie is a must.

9

[quote]Ramo wrote:

The other way probably isn’t smart at all, but it’s what I did after taking some time away from training and it worked unbelievably well, and that’s bombing yourself back to the stone age with volume. BBB on everything, pushing for PRs on everything, and just getting work done. I ate what I felt I needed to recover, didn’t eat shit I knew I shouldn’t, and drank as much bourbon as I wanted. The body composition changes were pretty ludicrous in a relatively short period of time, and I wasn’t fat or anything to begin with.
[/quote]
This may be the most manly conditioning program ever. May not be all that wise, but still.

10

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Diet - it’s what people do who don’t work hard enough.

I just made that up and am laughing my ass off because the Internet Inch Club will get all mad. Poking fun at diet and Xfit and all that stuff is very amusing. I liken it to poking a rabid bear. The bear gets all riled up and starts to get up/run at you but then realizes both of his legs are broken. The bear then stumbles and falls because he has nothing to stand on.

I’m particularly proud of that metaphor.

[/quote]

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/jim-wendler-531/steady_state_cardio_2
[/quote]

While I appreciate the quote, I have a demanding job and time to hit the gym is limited. So I’m never going to be able to hit it hard enough not to need to reduce calories. I already go as much as I can.

11

[quote]Leechum wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Diet - it’s what people do who don’t work hard enough.

I just made that up and am laughing my ass off because the Internet Inch Club will get all mad. Poking fun at diet and Xfit and all that stuff is very amusing. I liken it to poking a rabid bear. The bear gets all riled up and starts to get up/run at you but then realizes both of his legs are broken. The bear then stumbles and falls because he has nothing to stand on.

I’m particularly proud of that metaphor.

[/quote]

[/quote]

While I appreciate the quote, I have a demanding job and time to hit the gym is limited. So I’m never going to be able to hit it hard enough not to need to reduce calories. I already go as much as I can.
[/quote]

Hire Shelby Starnes. I worked with him for 16 weeks back in 2012 and wass running 5-3-1 at the time and managed to get stronger in all my lifts while going from 285 down to about 260. I seet PR’s in all my lifts at a Powerlifting Meet a month and a half later.

We started out at steady state cardio 2 days a week with HIIT 3 days a week, and increased as my fat loss slowed. I eventually got up to 7 days a week (4 steady state, 3 HIIT) but never for more than a half hour.

I ran the 3-5-1 setup with programed Big Assistance exercises from 5-3-1 second edition, and did a little bit of accessory work after that (nothing too strenous, mostly prehab/fun mirror muscle stuff)

12

[quote]Leechum wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Diet - it’s what people do who don’t work hard enough.

I just made that up and am laughing my ass off because the Internet Inch Club will get all mad. Poking fun at diet and Xfit and all that stuff is very amusing. I liken it to poking a rabid bear. The bear gets all riled up and starts to get up/run at you but then realizes both of his legs are broken. The bear then stumbles and falls because he has nothing to stand on.

I’m particularly proud of that metaphor.

[/quote]

[/quote]

While I appreciate the quote, I have a demanding job and time to hit the gym is limited. So I’m never going to be able to hit it hard enough not to need to reduce calories. I already go as much as I can.
[/quote]

I’m just letting you know Jim has answered similar questions before.

13

I’ve used 5/3/1 while dieting before. Nothing changes. I would time 70%-80% of your carb intake before, during and after the workout, with the majority coming during and after. This ensures that you are fueling whatever muscle breakdown you cause while training.

Conditioning won’t necessarily need to be increased if you are lifting with enough volume and eating properly. Those two things alone will shed fat quite well.

If something happens that your lifts fall off a bit, simply go back a couple of cycles and proceed as usual.

Good luck!

14

Hello Leechum,

There is some great advice here for you already but here is my own, from experience.

Diet is key. Despite certain metaphors…! Spend 2 mins on google and calculate your maintenance calories and deduct 10 percent. This WILL work.

Dont try and plan what you expect or hope to do percentage wise on your key lifts, just do exactly what you are currently doing and add weight wherever possible. Chances are you may only be able to maintain current strength levels. Whatever happens just keep the intensity high. As far as accessory work BBB with short rest periods will be perfect. If you can superset even better.

You will lose a decent amount of weight just from doing the above. Once weight loss stalls add an HIT session in the week, then next move shave off 200 cals, then add another HIT session…etc until you reach your fat loss goal. You may find that you begin to feel like you are overtraining if this happens reduce volume of the key lifts by 30 percent but do not decrease the load.

Enjoy the results!

15

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Leechum wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Diet - it’s what people do who don’t work hard enough.

I just made that up and am laughing my ass off because the Internet Inch Club will get all mad. Poking fun at diet and Xfit and all that stuff is very amusing. I liken it to poking a rabid bear. The bear gets all riled up and starts to get up/run at you but then realizes both of his legs are broken. The bear then stumbles and falls because he has nothing to stand on.

I’m particularly proud of that metaphor.

[/quote]

[/quote]

While I appreciate the quote, I have a demanding job and time to hit the gym is limited. So I’m never going to be able to hit it hard enough not to need to reduce calories. I already go as much as I can.
[/quote]

I’m just letting you know Jim has answered similar questions before. [/quote]

That’s not really answering a similar question, because I can’t really try any harder in the weightroom!

16

[quote]Gareth Murchie wrote:
Hello Leechum,

There is some great advice here for you already but here is my own, from experience.

Diet is key. Despite certain metaphors…! Spend 2 mins on google and calculate your maintenance calories and deduct 10 percent. This WILL work.

Dont try and plan what you expect or hope to do percentage wise on your key lifts, just do exactly what you are currently doing and add weight wherever possible. Chances are you may only be able to maintain current strength levels. Whatever happens just keep the intensity high. As far as accessory work BBB with short rest periods will be perfect. If you can superset even better.

You will lose a decent amount of weight just from doing the above. Once weight loss stalls add an HIT session in the week, then next move shave off 200 cals, then add another HIT session…etc until you reach your fat loss goal. You may find that you begin to feel like you are overtraining if this happens reduce volume of the key lifts by 30 percent but do not decrease the load.

Enjoy the results![/quote]

I have to say, this BBB idea is intriguing.

17

I like Jim’s tip of taking a whey drink before each meal -you get fuller, faster and you’re getting your protein in

18

[quote]Leechum wrote:

[quote]Gareth Murchie wrote:
Hello Leechum,

There is some great advice here for you already but here is my own, from experience.

Diet is key. Despite certain metaphors…! Spend 2 mins on google and calculate your maintenance calories and deduct 10 percent. This WILL work.

Dont try and plan what you expect or hope to do percentage wise on your key lifts, just do exactly what you are currently doing and add weight wherever possible. Chances are you may only be able to maintain current strength levels. Whatever happens just keep the intensity high. As far as accessory work BBB with short rest periods will be perfect. If you can superset even better.

You will lose a decent amount of weight just from doing the above. Once weight loss stalls add an HIT session in the week, then next move shave off 200 cals, then add another HIT session…etc until you reach your fat loss goal. You may find that you begin to feel like you are overtraining if this happens reduce volume of the key lifts by 30 percent but do not decrease the load.

Enjoy the results![/quote]

I have to say, this BBB idea is intriguing.
[/quote]

Glad to hear. Although the BBB template is designed to maximise hypertrophy, which will not be possible in a calorie deficit I strongly believe that if you do 5x10 with minimal rest periods it effectively becomes a form of HIIT which is a great way to burn fat, not to mention very time efficient. And if you can superset that’s 10x10 so even better! Then once you come off the restrictive diet you can continue, add weight to the bar and start putting on some more muscle!

I appreciate you aren’t losing weight for “aesthetic” reasons but if you do hit your target and look to continue further fat loss I strongly recommend intermittent fasting ie. During a 24h period fast for 16 hours and limit eating to an 8 hour window. Also the metabolic diet is very effective too.

19

“Also the metabolic diet is very effective too.”

The author (Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale) has a rare combination of academic knowledge and in the trenches experience… maybe the strongest person to ever hold an MD.

20

[quote]Leechum wrote:
I’m a bit skeptical, but I do want to give the doc’s rec a try.
[/quote]
Why are you skeptical about a licensed medical professional?

[quote]Leechum wrote:
Approach #1 - I test my maxes and perhaps take 85% or 80% rather than 90%, to account for a loss of strength?
[/quote]
Why are you assuming you will strength? You are setting yourself up for failure with that mentality. Many people continue to get stronger while on a cut.