Nate Green's Peri-Workout Nutrition Experience

Bigger Stronger Leaner Christian Thibaudeau Coaching
62

[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
Not to be a nay-sayer but this all seems odd to me. I’m SURE this will result in some increased gains just from such high carbs and calories PWO but is it really that important? I mean it’s being touted as this revolutionary thing that will work wonders but look how big people in the past have gotten just eating big. Of course PWO nutrition is important but plenty of really big guys got there by just eating the right foods and at most having some whey and simple sugars PWO without making things so complicated (or expensive :slight_smile: )[/quote]

I have to agree with you. This just seems a bit too anal 15- 20- 30-. I have a bad enough time now being anal with timing my meals, I don’t want to get hung up this bad :wink:

I would like to hear people’s experiences with it, so they can be the guinea pig :slight_smile:

63

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Needmassquick wrote:
Not to be a nay-sayer but this all seems odd to me. I’m SURE this will result in some increased gains just from such high carbs and calories PWO but is it really that important? I mean it’s being touted as this revolutionary thing that will work wonders but look how big people in the past have gotten just eating big. Of course PWO nutrition is important but plenty of really big guys got there by just eating the right foods and at most having some whey and simple sugars PWO without making things so complicated (or expensive :slight_smile: )

I have to agree with you. This just seems a bit too anal 15- 20- 30-. I have a bad enough time now being anal with timing my meals, I don’t want to get hung up this bad :wink:

I would like to hear people’s experiences with it, so they can be the guinea pig :)[/quote]

I think in the future the science of para-workout nutrition will evolve into taking one single time released capsule or powder that supplies your body with the exact nutrients at the right times… Nutrition is exciting and always keeps me interested.

I just want to thank Nate Green and Mr. Thibaudeau for taking taking to share their knowledge and answer questions on this board.

64

[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
Not to be a nay-sayer but this all seems odd to me. I’m SURE this will result in some increased gains just from such high carbs and calories PWO but is it really that important? I mean it’s being touted as this revolutionary thing that will work wonders but look how big people in the past have gotten just eating big. Of course PWO nutrition is important but plenty of really big guys got there by just eating the right foods and at most having some whey and simple sugars PWO without making things so complicated (or expensive :slight_smile: )[/quote]

I have a few friends who have never lifted a weight in their life and look better than 99.9% of the gym addict. Some actually look like they could win an amateur bodybuilding contest!

Does that mean that most of us should stop training since there are plenty of people who got big without training?

I briefly worked with St-Louis Rams Steven Jackson… the guy is 6’1’’ 235 with 8% body fat. His diet consists mostly of fast food, cereal and he has a sugar-free Redbull post-workout. Should we all do like him, after all he is huge and lean?

See what I mean? OBVIOUSLY you can get good results without post-workout protocol or even perfect nutrition, however the closer you are to normalcy, the most tools you’ll need to build the body you dream of.

65

[quote]Efuchs7 wrote:
Hi Coach Thibaudeau,

Preworkout 30-60 minutes before 1 scoop Power Drive and one Spike Shooter
Warm-up and foam rolling continue drinking water.
Weights 1/2 serving Surge Recovery. About one hour of lifting sipped throughout. Currently on Alwyn Cosgrove’s new rules of lifting fatloss routines) water down the remaining Surge and do HIIT 1 minute rounds with two minutes moderate.
Then I’ll mix up 1/2 serving Surge Recovery, creatine 3-5grams, 1 scoop Power Drive and 1 scoop Superfood.

Comments? Things to consider, add or do differently?
Thank you in advance as seeing your body transformation and articles are very inspiring to me.
[/quote]

Also considering getting Surge Workout Fuel can you let me know the best protocol and i hope Anaconda comes out!

66

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Needmassquick wrote:
Not to be a nay-sayer but this all seems odd to me. I’m SURE this will result in some increased gains just from such high carbs and calories PWO but is it really that important? I mean it’s being touted as this revolutionary thing that will work wonders but look how big people in the past have gotten just eating big. Of course PWO nutrition is important but plenty of really big guys got there by just eating the right foods and at most having some whey and simple sugars PWO without making things so complicated (or expensive :slight_smile: )

I have a few friends who have never lifted a weight in their life and look better than 99.9% of the gym addict. Some actually look like they could win an amateur bodybuilding contest!

Does that mean that most of us should stop training since there are plenty of people who got big without training?

I briefly worked with St-Louis Rams Steven Jackson… the guy is 6’1’’ 235 with 8% body fat. His diet consists mostly of fast food, cereal and he has a sugar-free Redbull post-workout. Should we all do like him, after all he is huge and lean?

See what I mean? OBVIOUSLY you can get good results without post-workout protocol or even perfect nutrition, however the closer you are to normalcy, the most tools you’ll need to build the body you dream of.[/quote]

You said it perfectly. Some of us need a gigantic toolbox :)I would rather use the best tools to accomplish my job at hand – just because you could put a nail in wood with a screwdriver doesnt mean its better than using a hammer.

67

How do the gains from this super-protocol reconcile with the muscle growth ceiling proposed in CT’s The Truth About Bulking?

68

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

To me, para-workout nutrition is THE key to greater gains. It is WAY more important than any other supplements you may take during the day. So if I were to cut somewhere, it would be the ‘other’ supplements. You mention that you can live with the cost of the para-workout protocol, great! Go with that.[/quote]

Guess after the para-workout nutrition, realistically most won’t be able to afford using Anaconda for para-workout and pulsing.

69

[quote]Travacolypse wrote:
How do the gains from this super-protocol reconcile with the muscle growth ceiling proposed in CT’s The Truth About Bulking?[/quote]

As I mentionned earlier, had you asked me if gaining muscle so fast would have been possible 6 months ago I would have said no way. But after having experienced it first hand, not only with myself but with several subjects, it’s hard to dismiss.

My only explanation is that the proper timing of the correct nutrients can induce a physiological state that is outside the norm of the normal one.

70

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I understand your concern. But to me 200$ a month isn’t excessive if it gets the job done. And the protocol is basically all the supplements that I currently use.

Gotcha, that’s fair enough. I was trying to fit this in with your Amino Acid Pulsing method and there was no way I could swing buying enough SURGE Recovery for both of these methods.

You know, getting married has been a drag on my budget but I’m sure you feel my pain on that :slight_smile:

Oh yeah, I feel your pain man!!!

‘Technically’ any fast protein can be used for the daily pulses. Whey has been shown to be fast enough to lead to hyperaminoacidemia.

So a poor (or married) man version could be:

UPON WAKING UP
PULSE no.1 Grow! Whey 1 scoop

20 minutes later
Breakfast

MID-AM
PULSE no.2 Grow! Whey 1 scoop

Lunch
Relatiely easily absorbed protein source (the leaner, the faster)
The rest of the meal depends on your goal

PARA-WORKOUT
40 min before = 1 FINiBAR
30 min before = 2 scoops WORKOUT FUEL
10 min before = 1 scoop RECOVERY
During = 1 scoop RECOVERY

60 minutes after workout
Either Grow! Whey (if fat loss is your main goal) or RECOVERY (if mass/strength is your main goal)

30 minutes later
SUPPER
Slowly absorbed protein source like red meat
low or no carbs
Veggies
Fish oil
Nuts or almonds

BEFORE BED
Slowly absorbed protein like cottage cheese blended in with yogurt or low-carbs Metabolic Drive[/quote]

Question on the post -workout bit. Do you mean you shouldn’t be drinking your recovery drink until an hour after the workout? What about the whole “halting catabolism” thing?

71

Exactly. CT recommends spreading out the during workout shake so that you finish it at the same time your w/o ends. That way, you can wait a while before next phase of nutrition and possibly get another pulse out of it.

72

Anyone know if Canadian got custom charges when ordering form Biotest?

CT,

This look very interesting to me. I also firmly believe in para workout nutrition since I experienced it my self by going from the Anabolic diet with no supplement to a basic (25g protein + apple pre) and (50g protein + 1 full white bagel and jellies post)

In fact, I had almost no results for 6 month on the AD, then I gain 10 pounds of muscle in 2 month with my “basic protocol”.

I’m pretty confident that your altered poor man protocol could push me a step further and be a progression in my current para workout nutrition. Also lots of info in your Para-Workout Nutrition thread, I read you often, but rarely post, thanks for you sharing info like this and your nice work.

73

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Needmassquick wrote:
Not to be a nay-sayer but this all seems odd to me. I’m SURE this will result in some increased gains just from such high carbs and calories PWO but is it really that important? I mean it’s being touted as this revolutionary thing that will work wonders but look how big people in the past have gotten just eating big. Of course PWO nutrition is important but plenty of really big guys got there by just eating the right foods and at most having some whey and simple sugars PWO without making things so complicated (or expensive :slight_smile: )

I have to agree with you. This just seems a bit too anal 15- 20- 30-. I have a bad enough time now being anal with timing my meals, I don’t want to get hung up this bad :wink:

I would like to hear people’s experiences with it, so they can be the guinea pig :)[/quote]

x2. I’ve been under the impression that natural food and good protein was all you needed. With all the nay-saying about how most supplements are just overpriced and unnecessary (talking about the generic pre-workout N.O. products/creatines/and such) it’s hard to consider a diet consisting mostly of supplements as being the “best.”

74

[quote]ALX wrote:
Anyone know if Canadian got custom charges when ordering form Biotest?
[/quote]

You will be charged brokerage fees and provincial & federal tax on purchases from the US.

There are some resellers in Canada, but the price tends to be the same or more than what you would pay importing directly from Biotest.

75

This is a great post - something i’m quite ignorant of so it’s interesting seeing Thib’s and Nate’s recommendations.

Is this the same for everyone though?

I’m overweight by about 80lbs i would guess so would all these pre,peri,post carbs be a good idea for me?

I have access (at the minute) to whey protein, creatine, BCAA’s and Surge Recovery - how would i best implement these supps into my routine?

I do plan on getting more stuff when i save up a bit - the supps here are very reasonable in fact cheap when compared to most here in the UK but its the customs charges that kick me in the gonads tbh lol.

Thanks for any help.
ryu

76

If you live near the border, an option is to get a mailbox at mailboxes etc. and direct your orders there. You can use Suite number instead of box number when giving suppliers your address. Even with a small box, your order is kept aside until you go and retrieve it. You declare the products at customs and show your bill and generally pay tax but no brokerage fee. That way it doesn’t get hung up clearing customs. Just make sure products are approved before bringing them over or they can be confiscated. Ask Biotest if the products you are ordering conform to Cdn norms.

77

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Exactly. CT recommends spreading out the during workout shake so that you finish it at the same time your w/o ends. That way, you can wait a while before next phase of nutrition and possibly get another pulse out of it.[/quote]

Exactly. If you consume a good amount of protein right before the workout and continue to ingest protein during the whole session, the immediate post-workout period is NOT an anabolic opportunity. Why?

Because what stimulates anabolism is going from a state of amino acid deprivation to a state o hyperaminoacidemia as fast as possible.

Right after the workout, if you have been using the protocol, you are NOT in a state of deprivation so a burst in protein intake will not be optimal at that point.

However 60 min later your blood aminos will have dropped substantially and NOW will be a good time to spike them with a protein pulse.

78

CT, so for those of us who are not able to sip on protein throughout our workouts, a post WO protein shake would then be appropriate?

79

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
If you live near the border, an option is to get a mailbox at mailboxes etc. and direct your orders there. You can use Suite number instead of box number when giving suppliers your address. Even with a small box, your order is kept aside until you go and retrieve it. You declare the products at customs and show your bill and generally pay tax but no brokerage fee. That way it doesn’t get hung up clearing customs. Just make sure products are approved before bringing them over or they can be confiscated. Ask Biotest if the products you are ordering conform to Cdn norms.[/quote]

Thanks, I’ll think about this option.

80

I posted this in Nate’s Locker Room, so I figured I’d post this hear as well. Where is Dave Barr in all of this “para-workout” nutrition discussion? Hasn’t he been preaching PRE-workout Surge for a while? If I remember he also says something similar to the post-workout shake being most beneficial some time after the workout (not sure about the last part, but pretty sure).

Anyway, this is all interesting stuff. Para-workout is all I focus on supplementation wise so if there is anyway to manipulate my use of certain supplements I’ll listen.

-Matt

81

[quote]slimsaw00 wrote:
I posted this in Nate’s Locker Room, so I figured I’d post this hear as well. Where is Dave Barr in all of this “para-workout” nutrition discussion? Hasn’t he been preaching PRE-workout Surge for a while? If I remember he also says something similar to the post-workout shake being most beneficial some time after the workout (not sure about the last part, but pretty sure).

Anyway, this is all interesting stuff. Para-workout is all I focus on supplementation wise so if there is anyway to manipulate my use of certain supplements I’ll listen.

-Matt[/quote]

Good question. You see there are 4 sources who influenced my current para-workout nutrition:

  • Dave Barr with his pre, during, post and second post protocol and also for introducing me to the protein blackout phenomenon which is the basis behind protein pulsing.

  • Tim Ziegenfuss from his work with Alpha-GPC and insulinogenic amino acids.

  • Lonnie Lowery for his idea of jacking up insulin like crazy once or twice a week para-workout

  • Tim Patterson for his knowledge on the optimal types of carbs and protein.