My 'Not DC Training' Training Log

Training Bodybuilding
1

I got interested in Dante Trudell’s training methods after following coach Thib’s comments about low-volume training as it pertains to ectomorphs and dieters. I don’t think I am an ecto as I have had success with higher-volumes schemes such as GVT, Pavel’s “bear” routine and EDT. But I am now dieting and had been feeling run-down on even moderate-volume routines.

I’ve finished my “reading everything I could find/toying/tinkering/experimenting” phase and now am going to do it for real.

As the subject line reads, no, this will not be true DC training.

Here is my split:

Day one-- chest, back, shoulders
day two-- arms, legs (chest, shoulders and triceps on the same day was too much for the joints, so I borrowed this split from reading about Dorian Yates)

I train at home so I will obviously be making great use of my power rack.

I will incorporate pre-exhaust in training my chest and back width. Back thickness will be straight sets. Pre-exhaust is a big deviation from DC protocol, but I have had success with it and I feel it stays within the DC parameters.

The biggest positive so far is that my motivation is sky-high. At the end of each traininig session I feel like I’ve had a knock-down, drag-out, bare-knuckle brawl with the iron, but the next day I feel like I can’t wait to get back at it.

I am following Dante Trudell’s advice concerning using this training while dieting. I will gradually increase cardio sessions during the week and will strictly control carb intake (amount, type and timing).

Thanks to everyone who posts on the “main” DC training thread. I have learned a great deal from all of you. Since what I’m doing is not pure DC training, I decided not to hijack that thread with my posts.

BTW, the stretches hurt like hell! Not in an I’m injuring myself kind of way. More like the way that calf training hurts like hell. Those who hate training calves will know what I mean.

Also, is it spelled “Trudel” or “Trudell”? I have seen it spelled both ways and would like to know the correct spelling. I don’t want to show anyone disrespect by repeatedly speeling one’s name incorrectly. I’m sure I’ll get flamed with “If you really don’t want to disrespect him, don’t bastardize his training method, jackass!” All I will say is that my training, though not DC, is DC-inspired. Hey, at least I’m not rest-pausing my squats!

2

Be aware of overtraining,if you use the rest pause and other intensity methods, specially since you are using pre-exhaustion, and dieting.

I realy think you should give low volume systems a shot while gaining first, but to each their own.

Good luck!

3

Trudel

What is your split and diet going to look like? Exercises, sets , meal breakdown plan etc.

Pre exhaust certainely isn’t standard fair, but as long as you are progressing in terms of your key exercises then you are at least keeping(and if diet is properly set up) gaining muscle mass.

4

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Trudel

What is your split and diet going to look like? Exercises, sets , meal breakdown plan etc.

Pre exhaust certainely isn’t standard fair, but as long as you are progressing in terms of your key exercises then you are at least keeping(and if diet is properly set up) gaining muscle mass. [/quote]

Thanks for the spelling.

I’ll be doing Mon-Wed-Fri for the weight training. Right now I’m doing cardio on Tue and Thu but will increase it to three days next and four days the week after that. Day One will be arranged like this:

chest
back thickness
back width
shoulders

For chest I will rotate dbell bench, wide-grip bbell bench on slight incline, and pre-exhaust of dbell flys and bbell flat bench. Drop sets for the first two exercises, one set of isolation followed by one set of compound for the pre-exhaust

For back thickness I will rotate rack DL, suitcase DL, and clean-grip high pull. One heavy set of 4-6 reps.

For back width I will rotate pull-ups (in a sort of drop-set starting with wide grip, then parallel grip, then undergrip), rack chin, and pre-exhaust of front layout and band pulldown. Rest pause for rack chins, one set per for the pre-exhaust.

For shoulders I will rotate farmers walk (I get a WTF effect on my shoulders with this exercise), side press, and upright row (no, these don’t aggravate my shoulders). farmer’s walk is one “set” of as long as I can go, drop set for the other two exercises

Day Two is arranged:

triceps
biceps
quads
forarms

For triceps I will rotate close-grip bench, reverse-grip bench, and lying bbell extension. One set followed by partials for the presses, rest pause for the extensions.

For biceps I will rotate incline hammer curls, reverse curls, and spider curls. Rest pause for all these.

For quads I will rotate OL squats, front squats, and free-weight hack squat. One heavy set, then a widowmaker.

For forearms I will rotate COC gripper, plate see-saw (see John Brookfield), and plate pinch grip. Yes, these aren’t traditional hypertrophy exercises for forearms. I’m trying to get my grip stronger first. One set for each.

No, I’m not doing all exercises for a particular muscle group on the same day.

My diet is almost Joel Marion’s CTL diet. I say almost because I will be restricting carbs at night on all days except the cheat day.

A long post to be sure, but I figured it’ll make it easier for folks to hack apart what I’m doing.

5

Wait…did you say your dieting while doing DC style work? I mean I know you said its not DC and all that but one of the biggest parts of his methods is eating. Heavy hypertrophy type lifting and rest-pause type stuff really doesnt seem like a good idea while dieting. How will you recover?

6

[quote]downintucson wrote:
Scott M wrote:
Trudel

What is your split and diet going to look like? Exercises, sets , meal breakdown plan etc.

Pre exhaust certainely isn’t standard fair, but as long as you are progressing in terms of your key exercises then you are at least keeping(and if diet is properly set up) gaining muscle mass.

Thanks for the spelling.

I’ll be doing Mon-Wed-Fri for the weight training. Right now I’m doing cardio on Tue and Thu but will increase it to three days next and four days the week after that. Day One will be arranged like this:

chest
back thickness
back width
shoulders

For chest I will rotate dbell bench, wide-grip bbell bench on slight incline, and pre-exhaust of dbell flys and bbell flat bench. Drop sets for the first two exercises, one set of isolation followed by one set of compound for the pre-exhaust

For back thickness I will rotate rack DL, suitcase DL, and clean-grip high pull. One heavy set of 4-6 reps.

For back width I will rotate pull-ups (in a sort of drop-set starting with wide grip, then parallel grip, then undergrip), rack chin, and pre-exhaust of front layout and band pulldown. Rest pause for rack chins, one set per for the pre-exhaust.

For shoulders I will rotate farmers walk (I get a WTF effect on my shoulders with this exercise), side press, and upright row (no, these don’t aggravate my shoulders). farmer’s walk is one “set” of as long as I can go, drop set for the other two exercises

Day Two is arranged:

triceps
biceps
quads
forarms

For triceps I will rotate close-grip bench, reverse-grip bench, and lying bbell extension. One set followed by partials for the presses, rest pause for the extensions.

For biceps I will rotate incline hammer curls, reverse curls, and spider curls. Rest pause for all these.

For quads I will rotate OL squats, front squats, and free-weight hack squat. One heavy set, then a widowmaker.

For forearms I will rotate COC gripper, plate see-saw (see John Brookfield), and plate pinch grip. Yes, these aren’t traditional hypertrophy exercises for forearms. I’m trying to get my grip stronger first. One set for each.

No, I’m not doing all exercises for a particular muscle group on the same day.

My diet is almost Joel Marion’s CTL diet. I say almost because I will be restricting carbs at night on all days except the cheat day.

A long post to be sure, but I figured it’ll make it easier for folks to hack apart what I’m doing.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure that you will make it through about 2 weeks of this and will be so banged up and overtrained that you will have to take time off. Not trying to be a dick, but your post looks like one huge clusterfuck to me.

7

I think you would be MUCH better off sticking with 1-2 straight sets per muscle group instead of your current plan. The only way DCers are able to train so frequently while going to failure is the very low volume of work sets and intensity techniques(1-2 sets, usually RP). Trying to do more like drop sets on multiple exercises will set back your recovery, and trying to do it on a diet(I’ m not familiar with Cheat to Lose, can you post a link?) is a recipe for failure in my eyes.

8

Second what scott says now that i have seem your program, is too alike DC for you to benefit of the pre exaustion and drop sets.

In other words you are almost doing a DC with things added… bad, bad idea.

DC only seems easy on the paper, even with all the low volume you are always on the verge of overtraining.

What you are doing is very, very similar to a friend of mine, that did DC for one blast, felt that one set rest paused wasnt enough ( he was dieting just like you ) , did modifications very similar to the ones you propose.

He was brutally overtrained in one week of this. Took him one week to feel “normal”.
Two to be good to train again.

Not trying to instill fear or anything , just relating something that i saw with my own eyes.

9

[quote]irongutted wrote:
Second what scott says now that i have seem your program, is too alike DC for you to benefit of the pre exaustion and drop sets.

In other words you are almost doing a DC with things added… bad, bad idea.

DC only seems easy on the paper, even with all the low volume you are always on the verge of overtraining.

What you are doing is very, very similar to a friend of mine, that did DC for one blast, felt that one set rest paused wasnt enough ( he was dieting just like you ) , did modifications very similar to the ones you propose.

He was brutally overtrained in one week of this. Took him one week to feel “normal”.
Two to be good to train again.

Not trying to instill fear or anything , just relating something that i saw with my own eyes.[/quote]

One more vote for this looking like a recipe for disaster.

My advice is, if you want to do DC, then do DC. People who try to mess with the system almost always wind up with what looks like a mad science project gone wrong.

Just from looking at how you’ve organized your program it’s clear that you don’t really have a grasp on the principles and methods that make up DC. So, trying to then modify the program without even really understanding it is just digging yourself a hole.

Could you tell us why you have chosen not to do the actual DC program? I know you are dieting (which is a no no from my understanding of the program), but any other reasons?

Finally I’d second Scott’s suggestion that if you just want to do a low volume program, while dieting, then just doing 1-2 work sets (straight sets, no RP, no Drops, no pre/post exhaust) would be the way to go.

10

[quote]Scott M wrote:
I think you would be MUCH better off sticking with 1-2 straight sets per muscle group instead of your current plan. The only way DCers are able to train so frequently while going to failure is the very low volume of work sets and intensity techniques(1-2 sets, usually RP). Trying to do more like drop sets on multiple exercises will set back your recovery, and trying to do it on a diet(I’ m not familiar with Cheat to Lose, can you post a link?) is a recipe for failure in my eyes. [/quote]

Let me give you a sample day according to what I was planning on doing, then a sample day according to your recommendations to make sure I am understanding you.

Sample day according to my plan:

dbell bench press-- one set of 6-8 reps to failure, then drop the weight and do reps to failure
rack DL-- one set of 4-6 reps to failure
rack chins-- one set of reps to failure, then take the 12-15 breath rest, then reps to failure
dbell side press-- one set of 6-8 reps to failure, then drop the weight and do reps to failure

Sample day according to your recommendations:

dbell bench press-- one or two sets to failure (straight sets)
rack DL-- one set to failure (straight set)
rack chins-- one or two sets to failure (straight sets)
dbell side press-- one or two sets to failure (straight sets)

I am interested in your response as I want to make sure I understand your recommendations correctly

For the cheat to lose diet, Joel Marion has articles on this site, as well as a thread in Authors’ Locker Room.

Perhaps I should not have used the word diet. I think maybe folks are thinking I’m trying this on 1200 calories a day or something. From what I read by Dante Trudel, he wrote that the weight training need not change much. The fat loss, according to Dante, should result mostly from an increase in cardio activity during the week and controlling carb intake (specifically by setting your cut-off to earlier in the day). This is the approach to fat loss that I am taking.

re-reading my post I feel that my response to the cheat to lose might have seemed dismissive. Cheat to lose is a carb-cycling diet. Certain days of the week are low/no carb, other days allow carbs but the rules are fairly strict regarding carb type. And other days allow a wider range of carb sources. And, of course, the one cheat day per week.

11

This is what I was basing my suggestion on,

"For chest I will rotate dbell bench, wide-grip bbell bench on slight incline, and pre-exhaust of dbell flys and bbell flat bench. Drop sets for the first two exercises, one set of isolation followed by one set of compound for the pre-exhaust "

To me that looks like

Dumbbell Flys 1xdrop set
Flat Bench Prses 1xdrop set
Rotated chest exercise 1xwork set

And also for this part

“From what I read by Dante Trudel, he wrote that the weight training need not change much. The fat loss, according to Dante, should result mostly from an increase in cardio activity during the week and controlling carb intake (specifically by setting your cut-off to earlier in the day).”

This is true in a certain context. People ask if they need to switch OFF DC training for pre contest and that is roughly his reply. Switching TO DC pre contest(or fat loss, ie same thing) has been discouraged every time I’ve seen it mentioned.

Someone who has been doing RP training for months with their regular off season diet and cardio is going to have a much easier time transitioning into lower carbs or cycling and increased cardio then someone who is attempting to start it for the first time. If you do go with RP training(please don’t call it DC haha) I’d shoot for a higher range, instead of 6-8 on the first “set” bump it to 9-12.

12

And again big D is speaking primarily about people using his methods and have been using his methods. It’s difficult to take what he says out of context and try to apply it.

His guys are pounding down protein, watching carbs at night(usually), doing off season cardio and drinking green tea. That sets someone up as a “human blast furnace” as he likes to put it. The metabolism is running hot and g-flux is extremely high. If you follow the principles and tweak as nessecary(the hard part) his way of off season eating is extremely good at putting on size while staying lean or getting slightly leaner as you put on more size. Having said that the first 3-4 weeks eating like that SUCK big time. Bloated, full all day and feeling like a pig. After you go through a cruise phase and drop a meal and the olive oil(if you needed it)people lean up considerably for the amount of time it is, but ONLY IF they have put in the off season work of jacking up that metabolism to be a food processing machine.

His methods are awesome, but it’s very important to understand the whole long term picture of what he’s trying to do with trainees without taking quotes and advice out of context.

13

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

Just from looking at how you’ve organized your program it’s clear that you don’t really have a grasp on the principles and methods that make up DC. So, trying to then modify the program without even really understanding it is just digging yourself a hole.

Could you tell us why you have chosen not to do the actual DC program? I know you are dieting (which is a no no from my understanding of the program), but any other reasons?
[/quote]

I’ll briefly write down the principles of DC training as I understand it. Please let me know specifically what I am missing. I’d rather have a bruised ego than a torn muscle.

DC training is not low volume simply for the sake of low volume. Increased training frequency is the important aspect. As Dante Trudel puts it, if you gain 1/64th of an inch on your pecs every time you train chest, but only train chest once per week, you’ll gain 52/64th of an inch on your pecs in a year. However, if you could train chest more frequently and still gain that 1/64th of an inch each time you train chest you would gain over one inch on your pecs in a year.

DC training is against the notion that bodybuilders should do 20 sets per bodypart and train each bodypart once per week just because that’s what they learned from other bodybuilders. DC training calls for the elimination of “junk” volume in training.

Eating while doing DC training involves, among other things, high protein and establishing a carb cut-off for each day. I believe 6pm is the normal recommendation. His recommendation for those trying to lose fat is 4pm I believe. Other aspects of DC training while trying to lose fat I’ve already written about in my response to ScottM.

The reason I specifically state that I am not doing DC training stems from something I heard Dave Tate say at a seminar he gave in Tucson. He said he was sick and tired of folks who, just because they have a ME day and DE day in their training, claim that they are training Westside. Then, when they don’t see the gains they were expecting, say “Westside sucks!”

I don’t have any machine-based exercises in my training, so I’m not going to claim that I’m doing DC. I am not personally coached by Dante Trudel, so I’m not going to claim that I’m doing DC. I’m bound to make a ton of mistakes, so I’m not going to claim that I’m doing DC.

I clearly state that what I’m dong is not true DC training because, in case I fail miserably, I don’t want any knucklehead to use my example and say “See, that DC training doesn’t work!”

I mention DC training in my subject line because I am hoping to capture the interest of those who are more knowlegable about DC training to my thread.

14

I love your avatar.

Sorry for the off topic-ness.

15

At first I wasn’t sure where all the prophecies of disaster are coming from. Then I looked at your reasoning on few items and came to agree.

You have clearly stated this is a ‘not-DC’ routine. It will be an interesting experiment. While it may not be a week, I believe you will hit a wall fairly soon.

You stated that doing chest, shoulders, and triceps in one day will be “hard on the joints”. What will be hard on the joints is NOT giving them adequate rest. You’ll hit 'em hard Monday and then the same joints, tendons, and ligaments, will get him again on Wednesday and Friday — there’s no respite!

Your arms will get hit in all sessions too. When they give out, ALL your exercises will suffer. On the other hand, Dante’s split seems to hit the biceps awefully hard too, as they get work in both parts of the 2-way split.

A split I thought would be worthwhile for ‘not-DC’ would be a sort of a Push-Pull one:

Chest
Delts
Triceps
Calves
Quads

Back Width
Back Thickness
Biceps
Forearms
Hammies

There’s still some carryover on this one with the shoulder joint and the hammies, but all your other muscles groups are getting hit hrad very other workout.

Just some thoughts.

Scott

16

If it helps, here’s a post of Dante explaining what to do if you’re new to DC and unhappy with your bodyfat a while back.

[quote]Doggcrapp says:
ILL COMMENT IN CAPS

Meal 1 - (Prior to weight training) Mini bagel w/ 1/4lb chicken and 1 pro complex (I skip this meal on cardio only days)
DUMP THE BAGEL

Meal 2 - (post workout) Raisin bagel w/jelly, 2 cups cranberry juice, 110 grams of procomplex
THATS FINE

Meal 3 - 1/4 lb steak or chicken, 1 pro complex
GOOD

Lunch - usually a salad with some meat and maybe a just scoop of procomplex (27.5grams protein)
GOOD

Meal 4 - 1/4 lb steak or chicken, 1 pro complex
GOOD

Meal 5 - 3/4 lb chicken or fish and salad
GOOD

meal 6 - Pro complex shake
MAKE SURE THIS IS IN WATER BUT IF I WAS YOU I WOULD DUMP THIS MEAL IF YOU ARENT GOING TO DO THE CARDIO I WANT YOU TO BELOW

Let me know what you think! I’m grateful for any help and opinions!

PS I have no aspirations to ever be a competitive BB. Total respect goes out for you guys that partake in the sport…I just wanna look good and weigh around 215-220 with abs! Thanks

ARE YOU DRINKING GREEN TEA ALL DAY–IT TAKES ABOUT 3 WEEKS TO GET USED TO EATING THIS KIND OF FOOD AND TURNING YOUR BODY INTO A FURNACE–YOU SEEM VERY UNHAPPY WITH THE BODYFAT SO I WOULD DO THIS IF I WAS YOU–STRAIGHT SET YOUR WORKOUTS AND DO CARDIO TWO TIMES A DAY ON OFF TRAINING DAYS–MORNING AND NITEFOR 30-45 MINS–AND THEN DO 30 MINUTES AFTER YOUR TRAINING SESSION

TAKE YOUR BODY TEMPERATURE UPON ARISING FOR 3 CONSECUTIVE DAYS AND TAKE THE MEAN AVERAGE AND MAKE SURE ITS NORMAL (FOR THYROID REASONS)—THE TRAINING WITH WEIGHTS MIGHT INCREASE MUSCLE MASS SLIGHTLY OR IT WILL STAY THE SAME BUT I WOULD FIRST GET YOUR BODYFAT PERCENTAGE DOWN TO A REASONABLE LEVEL YOUR HAPPY WITH AND THEN–STAY WITH THE SEMBLANCE OF THE SAME DIET–AND LESSEN CARDIO AND START
RESTPAUSING THINGS (thats the quick version of all of this but i hope it is a start for you)

[/quote]

17

[quote]will to power wrote:
If it helps, here’s a post of Dante explaining what to do if you’re new to DC and unhappy with your bodyfat a while back.

Doggcrapp says:
ILL COMMENT IN CAPS

Meal 1 - (Prior to weight training) Mini bagel w/ 1/4lb chicken and 1 pro complex (I skip this meal on cardio only days)
DUMP THE BAGEL

Meal 2 - (post workout) Raisin bagel w/jelly, 2 cups cranberry juice, 110 grams of procomplex
THATS FINE

Meal 3 - 1/4 lb steak or chicken, 1 pro complex
GOOD

Lunch - usually a salad with some meat and maybe a just scoop of procomplex (27.5grams protein)
GOOD

Meal 4 - 1/4 lb steak or chicken, 1 pro complex
GOOD

Meal 5 - 3/4 lb chicken or fish and salad
GOOD

meal 6 - Pro complex shake
MAKE SURE THIS IS IN WATER BUT IF I WAS YOU I WOULD DUMP THIS MEAL IF YOU ARENT GOING TO DO THE CARDIO I WANT YOU TO BELOW

Let me know what you think! I’m grateful for any help and opinions!

PS I have no aspirations to ever be a competitive BB. Total respect goes out for you guys that partake in the sport…I just wanna look good and weigh around 215-220 with abs! Thanks

ARE YOU DRINKING GREEN TEA ALL DAY–IT TAKES ABOUT 3 WEEKS TO GET USED TO EATING THIS KIND OF FOOD AND TURNING YOUR BODY INTO A FURNACE–YOU SEEM VERY UNHAPPY WITH THE BODYFAT SO I WOULD DO THIS IF I WAS YOU–STRAIGHT SET YOUR WORKOUTS AND DO CARDIO TWO TIMES A DAY ON OFF TRAINING DAYS–MORNING AND NITEFOR 30-45 MINS–AND THEN DO 30 MINUTES AFTER YOUR TRAINING SESSION

TAKE YOUR BODY TEMPERATURE UPON ARISING FOR 3 CONSECUTIVE DAYS AND TAKE THE MEAN AVERAGE AND MAKE SURE ITS NORMAL (FOR THYROID REASONS)—THE TRAINING WITH WEIGHTS MIGHT INCREASE MUSCLE MASS SLIGHTLY OR IT WILL STAY THE SAME BUT I WOULD FIRST GET YOUR BODYFAT PERCENTAGE DOWN TO A REASONABLE LEVEL YOUR HAPPY WITH AND THEN–STAY WITH THE SEMBLANCE OF THE SAME DIET–AND LESSEN CARDIO AND START
RESTPAUSING THINGS (thats the quick version of all of this but i hope it is a start for you)

[/quote]

Thank you. That was very helpful.

18

[quote]Scott M wrote:
This is what I was basing my suggestion on,

"For chest I will rotate dbell bench, wide-grip bbell bench on slight incline, and pre-exhaust of dbell flys and bbell flat bench. Drop sets for the first two exercises, one set of isolation followed by one set of compound for the pre-exhaust "

To me that looks like

Dumbbell Flys 1xdrop set
Flat Bench Prses 1xdrop set
Rotated chest exercise 1xwork set

And also for this part

“From what I read by Dante Trudel, he wrote that the weight training need not change much. The fat loss, according to Dante, should result mostly from an increase in cardio activity during the week and controlling carb intake (specifically by setting your cut-off to earlier in the day).”

This is true in a certain context. People ask if they need to switch OFF DC training for pre contest and that is roughly his reply. Switching TO DC pre contest(or fat loss, ie same thing) has been discouraged every time I’ve seen it mentioned.

Someone who has been doing RP training for months with their regular off season diet and cardio is going to have a much easier time transitioning into lower carbs or cycling and increased cardio then someone who is attempting to start it for the first time. If you do go with RP training(please don’t call it DC haha) I’d shoot for a higher range, instead of 6-8 on the first “set” bump it to 9-12. [/quote]

Yes, I see how if I were trying to do drop sets or rest pause on three or four exercises per muscle in one session then that would be pretty crazy.

I will take the rest of your post under consideration. Thank you very much for your time and expertise.

19

[quote]downintucson wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:

Just from looking at how you’ve organized your program it’s clear that you don’t really have a grasp on the principles and methods that make up DC. So, trying to then modify the program without even really understanding it is just digging yourself a hole.

Could you tell us why you have chosen not to do the actual DC program? I know you are dieting (which is a no no from my understanding of the program), but any other reasons?

I’ll briefly write down the principles of DC training as I understand it. Please let me know specifically what I am missing. I’d rather have a bruised ego than a torn muscle.

DC training is not low volume simply for the sake of low volume. Increased training frequency is the important aspect. As Dante Trudel puts it, if you gain 1/64th of an inch on your pecs every time you train chest, but only train chest once per week, you’ll gain 52/64th of an inch on your pecs in a year. However, if you could train chest more frequently and still gain that 1/64th of an inch each time you train chest you would gain over one inch on your pecs in a year.

DC training is against the notion that bodybuilders should do 20 sets per bodypart and train each bodypart once per week just because that’s what they learned from other bodybuilders. DC training calls for the elimination of “junk” volume in training.

Eating while doing DC training involves, among other things, high protein and establishing a carb cut-off for each day. I believe 6pm is the normal recommendation. His recommendation for those trying to lose fat is 4pm I believe. Other aspects of DC training while trying to lose fat I’ve already written about in my response to ScottM.

The reason I specifically state that I am not doing DC training stems from something I heard Dave Tate say at a seminar he gave in Tucson. He said he was sick and tired of folks who, just because they have a ME day and DE day in their training, claim that they are training Westside. Then, when they don’t see the gains they were expecting, say “Westside sucks!”

I don’t have any machine-based exercises in my training, so I’m not going to claim that I’m doing DC. I am not personally coached by Dante Trudel, so I’m not going to claim that I’m doing DC. I’m bound to make a ton of mistakes, so I’m not going to claim that I’m doing DC.

I clearly state that what I’m dong is not true DC training because, in case I fail miserably, I don’t want any knucklehead to use my example and say “See, that DC training doesn’t work!”

I mention DC training in my subject line because I am hoping to capture the interest of those who are more knowlegable about DC training to my thread.
[/quote]

The concepts/methods I was referring to was in regards to both your scheduling of body parts (which Simon already addressed)and the order in which you purpose that you’re going to work your body parts during your workouts.

There is a reason why DC puts quads and back thickness exercises last in the workouts. You seem to have missed that detail (or simply didn’t understand why the workouts were organized the way they were).

See, you’re not going to be able to push yourself on a quad widomaker or a heavy set of deadlifts like you’re supposed to and then do more exercises after that. DC puts those exercises last because, quite frankly, upon finishing those sets (if you do them to the level of intensity that you’re supposed to) you’re not going to want (or be able to in many cases) to do anything but drink your PWO shake, go home and curl up in the fetal position.

So, in the case of your program, there is no way that you’re going to be able to do a set of heavy Rack DL’s, then do pull-ups, then do farmers carries. And if you can, you pussed out on the rack dl’s IMO.

You might be able to get away with doing the forearm exercises (judging by your choices) after doing quads, but I honestly doubt it. If you’re pushing yourself like you should be, your going to be completely and utterly spent after finishing a widowmaker set of OL squats (or front or hack squats). At that point your grip work is going to really suffer (if it’s even possible).

Honestly, if you want to give DC an honest try (and you think you’re ready to do so) then do it right. If you want to just do a low volume program then Scott M’s suggestion to do straight sets (which was echoed in that post by big D himself) and not do drop sets or RP. I’d also suggest looking at the actual format (as in split and exercise order) of a proper DC program and follow that lead.

Good luck.

20

[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
At first I wasn’t sure where all the prophecies of disaster are coming from. Then I looked at your reasoning on few items and came to agree.

You have clearly stated this is a ‘not-DC’ routine. It will be an interesting experiment. While it may not be a week, I believe you will hit a wall fairly soon.

You stated that doing chest, shoulders, and triceps in one day will be “hard on the joints”. What will be hard on the joints is NOT giving them adequate rest. You’ll hit 'em hard Monday and then the same joints, tendons, and ligaments, will get him again on Wednesday and Friday — there’s no respite!

Your arms will get hit in all sessions too. When they give out, ALL your exercises will suffer. On the other hand, Dante’s split seems to hit the biceps awefully hard too, as they get work in both parts of the 2-way split.

A split I thought would be worthwhile for ‘not-DC’ would be a sort of a Push-Pull one:

Chest
Delts
Triceps
Calves
Quads

Back Width
Back Thickness
Biceps
Forearms
Hammies

There’s still some carryover on this one with the shoulder joint and the hammies, but all your other muscles groups are getting hit hrad very other workout.

Just some thoughts.

Scott[/quote]

The reason I moved triceps to day two instead of leaving it in day one with chest and shoulders is because, during my experimenting/trying things out/whatever you want to call it phase I tried the “standard” DC split with all three bodyparts on the same day. I noticed that my shoulders were sore, not only towards the end of the session, but for a few days after.

I then happened to find something online (I wish I could remember where so I could provide a link) that discussed possible problems with working chest, shoulders and triceps in the same session. The reasoning was that, after working chest and delts, the muscles would be too fatigued to stabilize the shoulder joint during triceps work and the tendons and/or ligaments would take the strain.

I also read that Dorian Yates used a split where he worked the torso (chest, back, shoulders) on one day and the limbs (arms, legs) on another. I decided to try the Dorian Yates split and my shoulders felt a lot better. That’s why I do triceps on a different day than chest and shoulders.

I considered the drawbacks of the shoulders getting hit at every session. My experience with trying different splits is why I’m sticking with triceps being separate from chest and shoulders. In a way, the same concerns could be raised about the lower back, since back thickness is done on one day and quads on another. In theory, someone could do rack DL’s on Monday, Squats on Wednesday and bentover rows on Friday, thus hitting the lower back on every session of the week. Yes, including the leg press in your rotation would solve some of the potential problem.

But as I’ve never seen the issue raised concerning the lower back amongst those doing real DC training, I didn’t think working a particular bodypart at every session would be too big of a deal. At least not a major violation of DC protocol.