Who here thinks that DC is overhyped? If you do, I would like to know your opinions as to why.
It works, theres no doubt about that. although i think any program that puts as much emphasis on pushing yourself to insane limits both in the gym and kitchen will produce results.
My only beef is that youre expected to be some jedi knight before you can ever try it. theres other programs which require you to go to failure every set and then push more.
Beyond Failure training and even CT’s more recent methods have used those techniques and so has Mike Mentzer and im sure plenty of other people before all them but the only style that makes a huge deal about how experienced you are before hand is DC.
I really dont think you need to train 3 years before you do it. i think if you can really push yourself to failure then you can push yourself to failure,i dont see why you can ONLY know how to do that after 3 years. anyway, i think if you can seriously gauge yourself you know whether or not youre cut out for it.
This piece isnt really anything negative about DC its just something thats kinda curious to me. i just find it kinda odd how he goes over and over again about how if you stop making progess on the program its your fault and that you should never blame him for it or say DC sucks or whatever.
I agree but isnt that the case with every program? i dont want to get too off topic but i think just about any program would bear results granted you hit it with the right intensity.
Can we answer if we think it’s NOT overhyped. To me it’s nothing more than a simple, progressive, no-frills approach to bodybuilding.
If one apples the “rules” correctly, it works as good as anything else out there.
Do you think it’s overhyped, Brick?
I would have to reserve judgement on the question. Cant knock it til one’s tried it…
which is gonna be awhile considering I have some other goals I want to achieve before I go on a pure mass/bulk phase like DC.
Is Westside overhyped? What about 5x5, or GVT?
Give me a break.
…Progression is the key.
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Westside for Skinny Bastards and Doggcrapp are two of the most well-known, well-respected, and PROVEN programs around.
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Without a doubt the best “bodybuilding” specific program I have used. I’ve mostly trained westside and then have been following DC for that last couple of months. People try to way overcomplicate things when they really need to stick to compound movements and increasing weight.
Who’s over hyping it?
The people that DC train are told time and time again not to force it down people’s throats and most are pretty good at it. If you mean it’s over hyped because it’s in the magazines all the time, well… that’s because it works so well people want to know what the hell is causing all the commotion with pictures and threads(like this one which is on almost every board lol) all over the internet.
I think rest-pause training is pretty underrated.
I think most people will agree that DC Training works because it puts an emphasis on constant progression, recovery, and hard work. There are not many styles of training as complete as DoggCrapp.
There’s not a lot of thinking left to do as Dante has already taken care of that. Pick some exercises, read Dante’s posts, and train hard. If you do that, can you really go wrong?
IMO…If you make progress on a certain, great. If not, switch it up. I find too many people get stuck in a comfort zone with training and even diet because of what others advise(inc myself over the yrs)…
Stepping out and trying something different NEVER hurts…and if you dont respond well, then at least you know that that routine didn’t work for you. This is why I would NEVER say one routine kicks ass over every other…cuz it may only do so for me!..I am, however keen to try DC out for a few weeks at some stage and see what the results are like etc…
GJ
LOL@ overhyped its called progression… which isn’t overrated.
Imo a big part of the system is just putting weight on the bar CONSISTENTLY and keeping the rotation of exercises moving so that you avoid getting stagnate.
Same thing in westside, its just more strength oriented…
imo if people kept track of their training in the same way they do with DC and (especially with ‘westside’) beat their accessory work they’d experience the same muscle gains (if not more considering the strength increases alongside everything else)
Lets not get into how well rest pause works.
Is DC simply about progressing in weight in lifts? If so…how is that a novel idea? When I first read it…some 1 to 2 years ago…it looked like a lot more than that. Maybe I was just over thinking it or reading wrong.
[quote]Sir wrote:
If so…how is that a novel idea? [/quote]
Who cares?
[quote]Sir wrote:
Is DC simply about progressing in weight in lifts? If so…how is that a novel idea? When I first read it…some 1 to 2 years ago…it looked like a lot more than that. Maybe I was just over thinking it or reading wrong.[/quote]
No one is claiming it as novel, it’s basically reverse engineering of what successful people have done. Dante looked around and interviewed many of the top amatuers and pros and figured out that the majority of the time the biggest densest guys almost all…
Trained extremely heavy on the basic moves
Took in tons of protein+overall calories
This is throwing out genetic anomalies that bodybuilding came to very easily and focusing on the more genetically “average”. Viewing Dorian Yates habits will get you much more useful information than Paul Dillet who could have 20 inch arms if he never picked up anything heavier than his grocery bags lol, that sort of thing.
Then you break it down from there. How can I become the strongest bodybuilder as I can as fast as I can? Well to Dante that was via rest pause training with low(ish) volume and a semi frequent split. He believes that when you reach your absolute upper strength limits for reps in good safe form you will likely be at the upper limits your genetics allow for size.
How can I eat as much food(protein especially) as possible to gain the maximum amount of muscle that can be coaxed out of the food without laying on tons of bodyfat? Well that was via very high protein, healthy fats for weight gain problems, carb cutoffs and eating for hunger with some off day cardio for bodyfat purposes.
"If you take genetics and drugs out of the equation, how would you the trainer answer the following question?
Im 180 LBS and I want to be 280 LBS. I want to gain muscular size at the quickest, fastest rate possible all the while keeping my bodyfat at a satisfactory level. There is a million dollars in it for you it you can do it in 6 years or less.? What would you have to have him do to get him there??!! ME? This guy would never miss a meal, get to know a treadmill on a regular basis, and be a rest pausing maniac. And I would have a million in 5 years. not six!"
That’s what DC training is.
[quote]derek wrote:
Can we answer if we think it’s NOT overhyped. To me it’s nothing more than a simple, progressive, no-frills approach to bodybuilding.
If one apples the “rules” correctly, it works as good as anything else out there.
Do you think it’s overhyped, Brick?[/quote]
I agree that it is a simple, no frills approach to bodybuilding and I cannot argue with the results that people have attained through using such a program. I would not discredit a form of training that has produced some mass monsters. I have seen David Henry up close and personal at the NY Pro Show a few months ago and he looked excellent! Dante Trudel himself is a behemoth.
However, despite the fact that I absolutely love some of Dante’s writings and I find much of what he says very informative and useful, I feel that DC training is overhyped. In my opinion it leaves a lot of other training options out of the picture and is similar to a consolidated program. I can’t help but wonder how one would bring up weak areas if they had them while also having overpowering other muscle groups (ie: torso muscles vs. arms dilemna as C has discussed in numerous articles). Where would one place isolation exercises within this program if he or she needed them? How about pre-exhaust? It just seems to leave very little wiggle room for some objectives and goals. But then again, I am not highly educated on it, nor have I experiemented with it.
I am seeing the reasoning behind training more frequently as per DC, CW, and AC. However, as Lonnie Lowery and CT have pointed out, if you induce a large amount of mechanical stress on a muscle, then you will need 5 to 7 days to recover. If you put a low amount of mechanical stress on a muscle, as in DC, you need less days to recover. According to DC, it is better to have 100 growth cycles per year as opposed to 50 or so. However, what if you train in a way that you can only have 50 growth cycles, inducing more time for recovery and growth with more intensiveness (ie: training to failure or near failure, drop sets, negatives, etc). In my view this evens things out and with a lower frequency of training bodyparts, leaves more room to add more volume and proper prioritization of muscle groups.
I have, in the past, tried consolidated (I am speaking of a few big bang exercises in a workout) HIT/Hardgainer routines as well as dabbling with Westside for a full year when I was conemplating competing in powerlifting (this program did add considerable mass however) but I did not sport the bodybuilder look that I have now, not even close to what I sport now.
I am not bringing this up to rabble rouse or cause trouble, as I know there are some very sensitive and intolerant people on message board who foam at the mouth like a bunch of starved Dobermans when someone says something that they do not like. I personally, am quite tolerant, give credit where it is due, and like to engage in meaningful debate.
What up, Derek?!
This is actually a post I put in another thread to show what I currently do and where I am coming from.
"The best routine for me is the one I am on now and have been on for a year and half with minor adjustments along the way.
All exercises get 1 to 2 main sets of 6 to 8 or 8 - 10 reps with negatives and static holds used on exercises that allow them. I include necessary warmups before and during the workout.
Each workout begins with five minutes of slow cardio and static stretching of the muscles groups to be trained (yeah, functional dickheads, I said I do slow cardio and STATIC stretching beforehand).
I do glute activation and mobility drills on leg and back day (ie: fire hydrants, bird dogs, butt kicks, shoulder dislocations with a light bar, etc. a la Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson). I have been heavily influenced by Dorian Yates, Trevor Smith, Mike Mentzer, Marc Dugdale, and all the other high intensity, low volume proponents.
Day 1
CHEST (pre exhaust routine)
Incline flies
Incline dumbbell press
Pec deck (+ static holds)
Flat bench dumbbell press
BIS
Reverse curls (+ negatives)
Incline hammer curls (+ negatives)
Machine preacher curls (+ static holds)
Day 2
CALVES
Donkey calf raises
Seated calf raises
HAMSTRINGS (pre exhaust)
Leg curl (+ negatives)
High and wide stance leg press
Single leg curl (+static holds)
QUADS
Squats or Smith machine squats
Walking lunges
Leg extensions
Day 3
SHOULDERS AND TRAPS
Overhead standing press (end with two push presses and negatives)
Seated dumbbell lateral raises
Cable lateral raises (+ static holds)
Dumbbell shrugs
TRICEPS
Close grip bench press
1/4 triceps dips (body kept upright as possible while still dipping down)
Lying dumbbell extensions (+negs)
Day 4
BACK (pre-exhaust)
Stiff arm cable pulldown
Pullups (30 second negative on last rep)
Bent over lateral raises
Dumbbell rows
Reverse pec deck
Seated rows (+ static holds)
Deadlifts
The static holds, negatives, and going to failure or near failure is taken about 5 to 6 weeks in a row. Then I take one week stopping 1 to 2 reps short of failure to avoid losing my mind and body perhaps.
Pre exhaust has helped bring up my lagging hamstrings and has caught my torso, chest and back, up to my arms and shoulders which used to overpower my torso aesthetically and during certain exercises for my chest and back.
I do not give a shit what anyone says to discredit this method for mass building as my chest and back have caught up quite nicely, mass wise. I am currently 225# at 5’10" and the proudest I have ever been in my life physique wise.
Even a woman the other night on the town thought I was a doorman of a bar. This was a huge compliment and an indication of progress for me. I would like to do my first show next year in a natural federation, perhasp OCB or INBF."
I do not believe bodybuilding, or any other form of training is simply a matter of “progression”, as everyone keeps stating. Order of exercises and bodyparts and layout of an overall program is just as important. My quads used to dwarf my hamstrings. My arms used to dwarf my chest and back. I constantly strove to increase poundages, something I still do to this day, on ALL exercises, including the isolation ones! However, I further kept accentuating the imbalances in posture and physique. It was not until I placed calves, glutes, and hams before quads that I corrected this problem. Pre exhaust for the chest and back helped with this as well.
I strive constantly to add poundages to the isolation exercises I use for pre exhaust. Disregarding my deload week or two, I do not want to be in a gym if I cannot break records or at least be in the mental and physical state to attempt to do so. No one besides genetic freaks like Shawn Ray, Paul Dilet, and Flex Wheeler got jacked doing otherwise.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
…Beyond Failure training and even CT’s more recent methods have used those techniques and so has Mike Mentzer and im sure plenty of other people before all them but the only style that makes a huge deal about how experienced you are before hand is DC.
I really dont think you need to train 3 years before you do it. i think if you can really push yourself to failure then you can push yourself to failure,i dont see why you can ONLY know how to do that after 3 years. anyway, i think if you can seriously gauge yourself you know whether or not youre cut out for it…[/quote]
I don’t think you’re ability to push yourself is questioned with the time period stipulation. It’s more about ‘laying the groundwork’ and achieiving a certain level of experience that’s the point.
You would need a good 2 to 3 years to:
- Build-up your poundages to decent levels via other methods.
- Try a number of different types of training
- Establish a good mind-muscle connection so that you will get the most out of one exercise per bodypart
I wouldn’t take the 3-yr stipulation as an indictment of your gym kahonas (sp?). Do you think you’re ready? Then research all the stickies, manifestos, and the Trying DoggCrapp Training thread (all 50+ pages of it!) and give it a go.
Scott
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I do not believe bodybuilding, or any other form of training is simply a matter of “progression”, as everyone keeps stating. Order of exercises and bodyparts and layout of an overall program is just as important. My quads used to dwarf my hamstrings. My arms used to dwarf my chest and back. I constantly strove to increase poundages, something I still do to this day, on ALL exercises, including the isolation ones! However, I further kept accentuating the imbalances in posture and physique. It was not until I placed calves, glutes, and hams before quads that I corrected this problem. Pre exhaust for the chest and back helped with this as well.
[/quote]
I’m with you. Speed, sequencing, range of motion, and angle of contraction are more important to me than weight.
Scott Abel’s ideas have been unbelievably helpful for me. His work has opened my eyes to a greater self-awareness.
Wait I’m confused…
… who exactly is “hyping” it in the first place?
I haven’t heard anyone hyping it, in fact most of the people involved try to downplay its very existence so that the people not meant for it won’t be doing it.