My 'Not DC Training' Training Log

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]downintucson wrote:
In theory, someone could do rack DL’s on Monday, Squats on Wednesday and bentover rows on Friday, thus hitting the lower back on every session of the week. Yes, including the leg press in your rotation would solve some of the potential problem.

But as I’ve never seen the issue raised concerning the lower back amongst those doing real DC training, I didn’t think working a particular bodypart at every session would be too big of a deal. At least not a major violation of DC protocol. [/quote]

You’re supposed to organise your rotation so that you don’t have squats after deadlifts in the rotation for the lower back issue.

As for shoulders, if it really is a problem you could use mainly triceps movements that don’t hit your shoulders. I think decline presses are suppose to work this way as well as extensions obviously, I don’t know I don’t feel triceps movements in my shoulders much.

Just my input on the joint thing stressing the shoulders on every training day seems more dangerous to me though than hitting them directly with one set and indirectly with one or two sets that day depending on exercise selection and then giving them time to recover properly for the next time.

22

[quote]downintucson wrote:
The reason I moved triceps to day two instead of leaving it in day one with chest and shoulders is because, during my experimenting/trying things out/whatever you want to call it phase I tried the “standard” DC split with all three bodyparts on the same day. I noticed that my shoulders were sore…

… The reasoning was that, after working chest and delts, the muscles would be too fatigued to stabilize the shoulder joint during triceps work and the tendons and/or ligaments would take the strain…

I also read that Dorian Yates used a split where he worked the torso (chest, back, shoulders) on one day and the limbs (arms, legs) on another. I decided to try the Dorian Yates split and my shoulders felt a lot better. That’s why I do triceps on a different day than chest and shoulders.

…In a way, the same concerns could be raised about the lower back, since back thickness is done on one day and quads on another. In theory, someone could do rack DL’s on Monday, Squats on Wednesday and bentover rows on Friday, thus hitting the lower back on every session of the week. Yes, including the leg press in your rotation would solve some of the potential problem.

But as I’ve never seen the issue raised concerning the lower back amongst those doing real DC training, I didn’t think working a particular bodypart at every session would be too big of a deal. At least not a major violation of DC protocol.[/quote]

Actually, this is the split I’ve seen from Dorian:

Mon - Chest & Biceps
Tue - Legs
Wed - Off
Thu - Back
Fri - Off
Sat - Shoulders & Triceps
Sun - Off

The difference with his split is that he’s only trying to hit each body part once a week — though of course there’s still plenty of crossover in his workouts. I myself have found that my triceps poundages are down when I do a push-pull split.

Don’t get my stance wrong here, man: I like the Torso-Arms upper body split and use it most of the time. The difference is that I only hit them twice a week:

Mon - Torso, Forearms, and Hams
Thu - Arms, Abs, Quads, Calves

My arms have always done better on this sort of split, than a push-pull.

I am just skeptical of that split working with a M-W-F DC-style schedule, but would love to see you prove me wrong! I just wanted to present a devil’s advocate point-of-view.

I think workout planning MUST come into effect with the lower back training, so not too many lower-back-intensive move are done in a single week. The lower back is probably more subseptible than other body parts to high-frequency training.

This is why I always train back and hammies on the same day. There are too many good exercises like Stiff-Leg (or Romanian) DLs and Good Mornings that hit both areas very nicely.

On the week I do Squats, I am more likely to do a non-lower back intensive back thickness move like chest-supported (hammer or other machine) rows.

Talk time is over. Tell us all to STFU and then go at your plan full tilt. However it goes — great or horrible — just come back and give us an honest assessment.

Regards and Good Luck,
Scott

23

[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:

Actually, this is the split I’ve seen from Dorian:

Mon - Chest & Biceps
Tue - Legs
Wed - Off
Thu - Back
Fri - Off
Sat - Shoulders & Triceps
Sun - Off

The difference with his split is that he’s only trying to hit each body part once a week — though of course there’s still plenty of crossover in his workouts. I myself have found that my triceps poundages are down when I do a push-pull split.

Don’t get my stance wrong here, man: I like the Torso-Arms upper body split and use it most of the time. The difference is that I only hit them twice a week:

Mon - Torso, Forearms, and Hams
Thu - Arms, Abs, Quads, Calves

My arms have always done better on this sort of split, than a push-pull.

I am just skeptical of that split working with a M-W-F DC-style schedule, but would love to see you prove me wrong! I just wanted to present a devil’s advocate point-of-view.

I think workout planning MUST come into effect with the lower back training, so not too many lower-back-intensive move are done in a single week. The lower back is probably more subseptible than other body parts to high-frequency training.

This is why I always train back and hammies on the same day. There are too many good exercises like Stiff-Leg (or Romanian) DLs and Good Mornings that hit both areas very nicely.

On the week I do Squats, I am more likely to do a non-lower back intensive back thickness move like chest-supported (hammer or other machine) rows.

Talk time is over. Tell us all to STFU and then go at your plan full tilt. However it goes — great or horrible — just come back and give us an honest assessment.

Regards and Good Luck,
Scott[/quote]

Thanks for the post. I appreciate your playing devil’s advocate. It keeps me on my toes and forces me to make sure about what I plan on doing.

No matter what the outcome, I most certainly will give a report on what happened. If I succeed then I’ll have a lot of folks to thank. If I fail, then at least DC newbies can be directed to my thread as a case study in how to be a total dumbass.

BTW, in honor of ScottM I think I’ll start referring to my training as “RP training” instead of “not-DC” training. See the last paragraph of ScottM’s first post on 1-12-08 for an explanation. Hell, the RP won’t even stand for rest-pause. It’ll stand for ridiculous plan.

Thanks for the well wishes

24

[quote]downintucson wrote:

BTW, in honor of ScottM I think I’ll start referring to my training as “RP training” instead of “not-DC” training. See the last paragraph of ScottM’s first post on 1-12-08 for an explanation. Hell, the RP won’t even stand for rest-pause. It’ll stand for ridiculous plan.

[/quote]

lol

And oh yeah, keep us updated on your progress and come back with any more questions on low volume plans.

25

[quote]Scott M wrote:

lol

And oh yeah, keep us updated on your progress and come back with any more questions on low volume plans. [/quote]

I plan on providing an update on 1-18. I will have made it once through my entire rotation of exercises.

Thanks for the invite to ask more questions. You have already given me quite a bit of good advice, both on this thread and from your posts on the main DC thread. I look forward to learning more from you.

26

Quick update. Yesterday was the fifth workout of my “real” or “post-experimentation” phase or whatever you call it. Ah, yes, my RP phase. I think in DC-speak you would say that I have completed days 1A, 2A, 1B, 2B, and 1C.

So far, so good. I am paying very close attention to my shoulders as enough folks have warned me about splitting up the pushing muscles.

A few changes I have made based on the advice I have received so far. Back thickness exercise will always be the last exercise on day one and quad exercise will always be the last exercise on day two.

To get my training and my diet more in sync (CTL cycles through four levels of carb intake across the week), I will do only straight sets on any workout that falls on a Monday. Any Friday workout will make the most use of rest-pause or drop set. Overall, more straight sets and fewer rest-pause and drop sets.

I think it would be responsible on my part to give a “don’t try this at home” warning to any DC newbie. For all I know, I might just be lucky that I haven’t screwed myself up yet. Some gave me as little as two weeks before burning out. Just because I make it okay past two weeks doesn’t mean that anyone should necessarily copy what I’m doing.

27

Another update.

Had my first repeat workout (day 1A). Improvements on all exercises. Increased reps for chest, back width. Increased weight and reps for back thickness. Increased time for farmer’s walk.

Will be replacing farmer’s walk with lying dbell laterals as my shoulder exercise. Per the advice I’ve received about putting back thickness at the end of my day 1 workouts, I feel the farmer’s walk will eventually be counter-productive to my plan. I’d rather put more effort into back thickness than to water down the effort by doing farmer’s walk and back thickness on the same day.

28

Sounds good. As long as you are progressing on exercises you are certainely keeping your muscle and maybe slightly increasing it.

29

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Sounds good. As long as you are progressing on exercises you are certainely keeping your muscle and maybe slightly increasing it. [/quote]

In a similar vein, I’ve been reading more about how long a blast should be. The generic answers are 6-12 weeks or whenever your really start to feel beat up or when you have to drop a lot of exercises because of being unable to break PR’s. If you could help me out a little, I was wondering how much depends on feel and how much depends on me breaking PR’s.

I’m assuming that there are those who do real DC training who are able to summon incredible willpower to keep breaking records even though they feel like stomped-on shit. I’m guessing I should keep the length of my blasts (I don’t have a better word to describe the high-exertion phase of my training) on the conservative side since I’m dieting.

Once again, thanks for all the help.

30

It’s hard to say because for myself I have slightly subpar recovery and crap out about 6 weeks into my blasts, someone else on the DC thread is on week 10 of blasting and based on his describing it wasn’t that close to overtraining.

I’d pick a couple factors, maybe sleep energy to go train and or morning pulse rate and monitor them. When they start slipping take the training down a notch or two and recharge the batteries.

The hardest part sometimes is crusing even when you are still hitting PRs, but I’d rather leave a 5 lb PR in the gym for another day then feel like a zombie beacuse I’m overtrained.

31

[quote]Scott M wrote:
It’s hard to say because for myself I have slightly subpar recovery and crap out about 6 weeks into my blasts, someone else on the DC thread is on week 10 of blasting and based on his describing it wasn’t that close to overtraining.

I’d pick a couple factors, maybe sleep energy to go train and or morning pulse rate and monitor them. When they start slipping take the training down a notch or two and recharge the batteries.

The hardest part sometimes is crusing even when you are still hitting PRs, but I’d rather leave a 5 lb PR in the gym for another day then feel like a zombie beacuse I’m overtrained. [/quote]

Thanks for the reply. This helps a lot.

32

Another update:

Finished workout 2A and things are going good. I’m seeing the wisdom of ScottM’s advice to go with higher-rep sets (9-12). Those exercises in which I started with higher reps are progressing better than the ones in which I started with low reps.

Also, I still hate the stretches. Yes, I’m doing them. Am I doing them right if I feel like I’d like to punch somebody in the face? Sorta like what Dane Cook said about a noise being so irritating that it makes you want to punch babies.

33

My suggestion of the slightly higher rep range was more for safety issues, don’t want to be grinding out 6+3+2 rest paused sets when you are glycogen depleted and lower in calories. However if you find you gain strength better in that range then stick with that “niche” and go with it for sure.

As per the stretches, yes some of them will certainely cause bps(baby punching syndrome), we must do our best to control it. You can usuaully get over it by eating more protein(not from babies-sickos) and drinking green tea. That’s the real secret of why they are in Dante’s diet ideas.

34

[quote]Scott M wrote:
My suggestion of the slightly higher rep range was more for safety issues, don’t want to be grinding out 6+3+2 rest paused sets when you are glycogen depleted and lower in calories. However if you find you gain strength better in that range then stick with that “niche” and go with it for sure.

As per the stretches, yes some of them will certainely cause bps(baby punching syndrome), we must do our best to control it. You can usuaully get over it by eating more protein(not from babies-sickos) and drinking green tea. That’s the real secret of why they are in Dante’s diet ideas. [/quote]

Good point about the safety of a higher rep range.

My observation is that its a heck of a lot harder to add a rep or two to a max set of four than it is to add a rep or two to a max set of ten. Yes, this is one of those obvious things that, as Dan John has mentioned, you have to re-learn over and over.

I’m intrigued about your comment about the green tea. The high protein thing seems to be a no-brainer, but I thought the green tea was included mainly to aid in keeping bodyfat low while packing on muscle.

BTW, I’m trying to find where in the main DC thread (goodness, its getting to be a long thread) I read about a recommendation to increase total reps for a lagging bodypart, then gradually work down to bigger weights and lower total reps.

35

The green tea part was a total joke haha. It’s for raising metabolism along with numerous health benefits that are too long to list here. For the stretches really you have to go to a “happy place” and stay in it. Mine is a beer volcano next to a stripper factory. I’d love to say they get easier but honestly they get more and more painful as long as you are increasing in weight and learning to tweak them to put more and more stress on the fascia.

That was probably posted by me(I blab a lot can’t you tell haha) so I know exactly what it is. It was Dante talking about shoulders and it looked like this…

“Chuck everything your doing & start all your rep ranges at about 25rp…start at something like 14+6+5 & make small jumps every time things come up & let your rep range go down over time 25–>20–>15 as your weights go up.”

I take everything from a psychological perspective(it’s what I study in school) and honestly I think the mindset starts to come in when the reps are dropping that you are losing this exercise and something “clicks” in your head around the 15-20RP range and you dig down deeper to hold onto that exercise. Who knows, the higher rep range creates a huge pump and the stretches become more effective, so maybe that’s what’s going on, I don’t know.

36

Crap. My post didn’t go thru yesterday.

37

[quote]Scott M wrote:
The green tea part was a total joke haha. It’s for raising metabolism along with numerous health benefits that are too long to list here. For the stretches really you have to go to a “happy place” and stay in it. Mine is a beer volcano next to a stripper factory. I’d love to say they get easier but honestly they get more and more painful as long as you are increasing in weight and learning to tweak them to put more and more stress on the fascia.

That was probably posted by me(I blab a lot can’t you tell haha) so I know exactly what it is. It was Dante talking about shoulders and it looked like this…

“Chuck everything your doing & start all your rep ranges at about 25rp…start at something like 14+6+5 & make small jumps every time things come up & let your rep range go down over time 25–>20–>15 as your weights go up.”

I take everything from a psychological perspective(it’s what I study in school) and honestly I think the mindset starts to come in when the reps are dropping that you are losing this exercise and something “clicks” in your head around the 15-20RP range and you dig down deeper to hold onto that exercise. Who knows, the higher rep range creates a huge pump and the stretches become more effective, so maybe that’s what’s going on, I don’t know. [/quote]

Good one on the green tea. I totally bit. I thought you going to tell me that the catechens in green tea accelerated stretch-induced hyperplasia or some shit.

This is why I love T-Nation: I can have a serious discussion about training, read “beer volcano next to a stripper factory”, and that phrase actually add something beneficial. Hell, I might finally hold the stretches past a minute now. Till now I’ve just been cursing at the world.

Interesting point on the mental aspect of dropping reps. When I originally read the post I thought it might be similar to the HST philosophy of dropping reps and increasing weight as the cycle progresses. But I totally see how a “I’d better get my ass in gear with this exercise” mentality makes the technique successful.

38

Another update:

Yesterday ended week three. Everything still going good. The changes I have made I think are helping a lot. Thanks to all who have helped me out, especially ScottM.

Will increase cardio next week to Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Staurday. This week I did Monday, Tuesday and Thursday.

Overall, I am pleased with my plan so far. I still look forward to each training session. I still hate the stretches, but the stretches make a HUGE difference in alleviating next-day soreness.

If I may pass along some advice to DC newbies, it would be to make sure you include the stretches. I feel the stretches are a major part of maintaining training frequency.

39

Just started fourth week. Am noticing that I have at least one “breakthrough” performance per training session. Most exercises I am happy with one rep more than last time. Today, though, I got eight (eight!) more reps at a heavier weight on standing calf raises. I think this is cool shit, especially as I am dieting. Probably normal stuff for DC trainees.

40

Yesterday was my second workout of week four. Got one rep less on rack chins than last time. First exercise my performance has gone down.

I usually schedule my workouts with three weeks of hard training followed by one unloading week. So the fact that I am feeling a bit run down in the fourth week is not unexpected. Will decide after the weekend if I will “cruise” or not.

I’ve been considering doing something opposite of what DC trainees normally do (imagine that!). I was thinking of increasing my calories a bit during the cruise. Perhaps my body needs a break from the training and the dieting.